Time for hydro assist - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 Old 06-29-2010, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
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Time for hydro assist

My jeep has a wobble. The only thing that seems to be loose underneath is the sector shaft has some play when I turn the wheels. As soon as in can schedule a time to be without a car I'll get er done. Why are the steering boxes such junk? I hear it's a more common problem on unlimited Rubicons.
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post #2 of 15 Old 06-29-2010, 09:38 PM
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Have you read my wobble/death wobble thread?

https://www.jkowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30723


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post #3 of 15 Old 06-29-2010, 09:44 PM
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Be careful of what you wish for, hydro will make your ride very unforgiving at highway speeds and tough to handle at a dead stop.... and I'd look deeper into the alignment, wheel balance, and track bar bushings to track this wobble down. Hydro will not fix another problem that needs to be addressed. A death wobble with hydro would be scary.... VERY scary.

Don't get me wrong... if you have a need for the hydro (37+ tires and a majority of your wheeling is in the rocks), by all means get it... just be educated on all of the downsides to a setup with it.

EDIT: PLANMAN's thread is very good on learning about death wobble and gives some really great pointers on how to correct it.
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post #4 of 15 Old 06-30-2010, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
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I've read that kits like the Red Neck ram and the PSC don't affect road performance much.
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post #5 of 15 Old 06-30-2010, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f5driver View Post
I've read that kits like the Red Neck ram and the PSC don't affect road performance much.
It's not my experience. At speed, steering is very unforgiving.... hold the wheel and sneeze.... then count the number of lanes you crossed.

Gist is... you have to be MUCH more on top of your driving when you have hydro. Small inputs become big outputs.
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post #6 of 15 Old 06-30-2010, 10:11 AM
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Are we talking about ram assist or full hydro?

With ram assist it makes the steering feel slightly lighter than just using the stock steering box but is still controlled. The box ratio hasn't changed.

If you go with a large dia. cylinder it will slow the steering but put out more force.

We typically set them up with 1.5" Dia. cylinder, it will give the best of both worlds for a vehicle being DD & wheeler.

For the more dedicated trail rig with larger tires we can step the cylinder size up.

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EDIT: I do understand what Abendex is talking about. It does have less feedback or resistance in the wheel. When you turn, it turns @ speed.

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post #7 of 15 Old 06-30-2010, 12:22 PM
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Brad, you have the PSC pump right? I just had to have a new one sent to me because the valve was sticking. PSC said that some pumps went out with the tollerances machined too tight, causing the valve to stick.

My steering was tits at first; steering lock-to-lock at idle with my pinky and smooth as silk climbing up walls where my steering was impossible before.

Then after a few miles on the freeway, my jeep started to dart across multiple lanes if you moved the wheel just a hair. When I pulled off the freeway after that pucker moment, the wheel would not turn at all while at idle - I had to bring the RPMs up over 1,500 to get anything. I guess when that valve sticks, the system is running on RPMs only (or something like that).

I would call PSC and ask about this. The system seemed pretty damn good before that happened.
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post #8 of 15 Old 06-30-2010, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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My bad. I ment ram assist. The jeep is a daily driver so road manners are important.
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post #9 of 15 Old 06-30-2010, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desert dog View Post
Brad, you have the PSC pump right? I just had to have a new one sent to me because the valve was sticking. PSC said that some pumps went out with the tollerances machined too tight, causing the valve to stick.

My steering was tits at first; steering lock-to-lock at idle with my pinky and smooth as silk climbing up walls where my steering was impossible before.

Then after a few miles on the freeway, my jeep started to dart across multiple lanes if you moved the wheel just a hair. When I pulled off the freeway after that pucker moment, the wheel would not turn at all while at idle - I had to bring the RPMs up over 1,500 to get anything. I guess when that valve sticks, the system is running on RPMs only (or something like that).

I would call PSC and ask about this. The system seemed pretty damn good before that happened.
I was going to call them after talking to you this morning... I just got busy with some other shit. I'll call them in the morning to see what they say. Basically, I saw no real difference with their upgraded pump and reservoir, from just the RNR out of the box setup, which does not have an upgraded pump. From all my research, I was thinking that a PSC pump would make me all peaches and roses... but it ended up being the same old shit, hard to turn at idle and too sensitive at highways speeds. From what I understand... the PSC pump was suppose to correct the idle issue, but not the highway speed issues. Others that I know with the PSC setup don't seem to have the idle issue, some with the RNR setup do, some don't (read: no upgraded pump). If you are not having overly sensitive steering at speed, you are the first I have heard that from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f5driver View Post
My bad. I ment ram assist. The jeep is a daily driver so road manners are important.
We are on the same page, hydro assist... Thean was just making sure.

And don't think I am trying to talk you out of hydro assist... I love it when it is working how I want it to. The idle issue sucks. The at highway speed issue just means that you have to be ultra careful and 100% on the ball when you are driving (which you should be anyhow, but most of us get lazy and go into auto pilot sometimes).

As for the primary issue you are going after (death wobble)... hydro assist will not solve it and most likely could end up making it extremely dangerous.

Last edited by abendx; 06-30-2010 at 07:01 PM.
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post #10 of 15 Old 07-03-2010, 06:54 AM
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Abendx, what size ram did you get? From Redneck? I did have the 1.75 extreme ram from PSC with my kit. I went to the 1.5 street ram from them. All around better response. Mine also doesn't dart. Very light in the wheel at all speeds. Idle works great now, didn't with the bigger one. That why I was asking.

I am on my second pump from them though. When it shits it is just plain manual. Hard as hell. Not to be a smartass but are you sure you got all the air out of your ram? Air will cause it to be fucking weird. My 2 cents.
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post #11 of 15 Old 07-03-2010, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKDinker View Post
Abendx, what size ram did you get? From Redneck? I did have the 1.75 extreme ram from PSC with my kit. I went to the 1.5 street ram from them. All around better response. Mine also doesn't dart. Very light in the wheel at all speeds. Idle works great now, didn't with the bigger one. That why I was asking.

I am on my second pump from them though. When it shits it is just plain manual. Hard as hell. Not to be a smartass but are you sure you got all the air out of your ram? Air will cause it to be fucking weird. My 2 cents.
Hey JKDinker.

Thanks for the tips and pointers. Apparently PSC had a bad run of pumps... and this might be my issue. They are having me do some troubleshooting (same as DESERT DOG was asked to do)... basically taking apart the pump and sanding down a valve that may have been manufactured to too tight a tolerance. I will hopefully get to that today and see what happens. Kind of a PITA, but at least it is a possible fix. When I explained my idle issues to them they knew exactly what it most likely was... so we shall see. Hoping this or a replacement pump makes things nicer at idle. I think DESERT DOG with his new pump is happy at idle and I know N30EX is happy with his at idle (both full PSC systems).

Now you say that you are having no sensitivity issues at speed? Interesting. I am not sure about DESERT DOG, but N30EX has complained about the same overly sensitive steering at speed as I have. It's certainly not the end of the world and with the benefits in the rocks, it is an idiosyncrasy worth dealing with.

BTW, I have the 1.5" RAM from RNR and did go through the bleeding process, so I assume the air is out (no bubbles in the reservoir).
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post #12 of 15 Old 07-03-2010, 03:33 PM
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I got the new pump that PSC sent me installed. This one works great compared to the last one; It moves those 37" Iroks with ease at idle. The new pump they sent me is made of steel and the one I was having problems with was aluminum.

Anyway, to the op; If you are having any problems with vehicle control at highway speeds, hydro assist will magnify it. My steering / geometry was 100% dialed in before hydro was installed. I had no bump steer, no drifting, and no wobble. The only thing I had was a very slight pull to the right when mashing the brakes. After hydro assist was installed, that slight pull when braking hard became a huge pull to the right any time I would brake - so I bled my lines and got the problem sorted out. Point being, your steering will be very touchy when the RPMs are up, and even a small existing problem with your steering could be very dangerous with hydro.

To give you a good comparison to what hydro assist feel like on the road to me; I drove on 37s for about a month with no steering stabilizer, and although I was forced to make slight steering corrections while driving, it wasn't that bad once I got used to it. Hydro assist feels the same way to me, like driving with no steering stabilizer.

The good part is that it turns very easy at a stop, and the control while climbing things in 4WD is amazing. There were many very tough lines I could not take before because I had no steering ability, but I don't think that will be a problem now. One of the other off-road benefits of hydro assist, is that is takes a great deal of stress off of steering components.

IMO, nothing wrong with hydro assist, but get your other steering issues squared away first. Honestly, if I did not wheel often and do a lot of tough trails - hydro assist would have been a waste of money.
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post #13 of 15 Old 07-03-2010, 10:33 PM
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I am having the same issues with the PSC pump. Its making a lot of noises under pressure checked for leaks, bleeding etc all seem to be good. Waiting for PSC to send me a replacement pump to try out. I also have 1.75ram which i will replace with smaller unit
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post #14 of 15 Old 07-04-2010, 09:44 AM
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Me chiming in-

I have the full PSC kit with the 1.5", and it feels REALLY good on road and off-- nothing weird. VERY pleased so far. Hopefuly, I wont have any trouble with my pump. Its been on there for about 3 months.

Got the kit from Poly Performance-

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post #15 of 15 Old 07-04-2010, 12:31 PM
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To the guys with ram assist:
It sounds to me like higher rpms equal higher pump pressures and steering issues at highway speed. Couldn't some sort of pressure regulator be fitted to the hydro system to minimize this effect?
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