Lift information for 08 unltd rubi - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
 
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post #1 of 19 Old 10-07-2007, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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Smile Lift information for 08 unltd rubi

Thank you to the folks that welcomed me aboard last week. I'm here tonight looking for jk lift information. I will need to get the ball rolling. I want to stay in the 3-4 inch range and don't want to sacrifice the "comfort of the stock ride" just looking to clear 35's, add some clearance and add a little room to articulate. What I think I know so far is that it is preferred to add an adjustable front trrack bar as opposed to a relocation bracket? Some kits claim no drive shaft mods necessary, some hint at the possibilitly and some flat say it is necessary. What I don't understand is why the differences in lifts that essentially raise the vehicle an identical 3-4 inches. I also know the "arms" on the JK are longer then those of jeeps in the past and some say that replacing them with a long arm kit is not going to buy me that much, hmmm? I know that Superlift did well in the recent shoot out and that they did it without breaking the bank. I also know that the shoot out was missing a number of lift companies! Anyone one have any suggestions or ideas?

Thanks in advance,
rocrat with the 08 flame red unlimited rubi
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post #2 of 19 Old 10-07-2007, 09:38 PM
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I have a 4" lift. I am still running the stock shafts with 37's and the light wheeling I do with my JK.

They aren't long for this world though. I have a set of replacement shafts awaiting for my stock shafts to finally grenade.

I disagree with the adjustable track bars are better than relocation brackets comment. Whatever keeps the geometry correct or fixes geometry issues is the way to go. No matter which route you take the first step should be to the local 4by shop and ask for some re-welding/beefing up on the factory axles before you install a lift. I would recommend it now but until you get the lift you don't want to limit your options by welding stuff on.

What type of off road do you have in mind? Hard stuff? Big rocks and lots of forces on the steering and suspension? Kind of hard stuff, mostly two track and mud. Almost no off road but should look good on Sunset Boulevard?

I think the answer to this question helps in determining what you need out of the lift, that will help answer which lift.
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post #3 of 19 Old 10-07-2007, 09:43 PM
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I have a 4" superlift and have been more than happy with it.
front adjustable trackbar is pretty much needed unless you plan on relocating your drag link higher to match. No issues seeing at the kit comes with that.

rear adjustable is debatable. I like drop/raised bracket as it gives a flatter trackbar, this in turn is better all around.

and x2 on the rewelding he stock junk.
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post #4 of 19 Old 10-07-2007, 09:50 PM
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Whew this is a big subject. Well first think about why you want 3-4" of lift. If it's just for 35's then you may want to go with a 2" coil spacer kit and a 1" body lift. This is what I am doing and I will give you my reasons why.
1. It's really cheap compared to complete 3-4" lifts
2. Maintains a lower center of gravity
3. Properly clears 35's with body lift and has good articulation. Even better if you eventually replace the control arms with a jointed system.
4. Easy install and removal for any possible warranty issues.
5. Maintains stock ride quality (depending on the kit)
6. Finally saves alot of money towards other upgrades.

I will say from my experience with my TJ that once you get over 3.5" you need to go all out on a kit (all adjustable arms, and new driveshafts) and I lost a consider amount of ride comfort at that height. I have also ran a Rubicon Express long arm kit and with the handling was superb the comfort was pretty bad.

As far as the track bars what ever you decide you are going to want to have the axle trackbar mounts welded up due to the poor welds form the factory and get a kit that uses a braket to correct the track bar geometry. Yes adjustable track bars will recenter the axle but the don't always correct for the geometery and you end up with bump steer. But if you want to wheel and be safe get you axle track bar mounts rewelded, there has been alot of reports of failure with them.

Long arm, forget about it. I believe MichaelW is running a prototype kit and I'm sure it handles phenomenally but these new mid length control arms are easily good to 4" of height I don't see the need to spend the money. Plus you mentioned warranty in another post, the long arm kit at minimum require you to drill into the frame and cut off brackets.

Driveshafts. If there not needed now for 3" they will in a year. The rezeppa style joint that Chrysler used on these cannot with stand high angles and the high amount of torque put on them by lift vehicles running large tires. People running anything 3" and above will slowly begin replacing there drivshafts as they fail.

You mentioned the Superlift kit. Yes I read that artical it was a little confusing but I will say don't buy a kit unless it comes with all eight arms with at least four of those being adjustable. Also if the kit doesn't come with all the extras like brake lines, bump stop, track bar brackets and at least a front adj track bar don't buy it. Or at least buy the extras at the same time of install.
Example: I purchased a 3.5" Rubicon Express kit for my TJ that pretty much only came with shocks and spring and it was the worst riding DeathWobble machine I had ever been in. I finished the lift with a long arm upgrade and it handled amazing, just was a little rough.

Jeep: 07 Wrangler X 2DR Black
Crime Guard Alarm with 2way pager, AFE CAI, DynaPro Exhuast
M.O.R.E. Body Lift, Source Co2 Tank, Stubbied Stock Front Bumper
KMC XD 795 Hoss Black 17" wheels and Maxxis Bighorn 305/70/17 tires
Every mod in the write up section.

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post #5 of 19 Old 10-08-2007, 10:31 AM
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A 3" lift should fit 35s perfect. You do not really need adjustable uppers with a 3" lift and stock drivelines, you only need adjustable lowers to get the castor and rear pinion angle correct. Without changing any steering components you can just use an adjustable front track bar. For the rear you can use the stock track bar with a relocation bracket, but get a good bracket that also attaches to the axle tube and not just the stock bracket, the stock bracket will rip off.


You should check out our Stage I JK suspension kit http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/home.php?cat=710, it include adjustable lower control arms, adjustable front track bar bracket, rear track bar relocation bracket, longer brake lines, sway bar links, bump stop spacers, and rear shock relocation brackets. The 3" kit works very well with 35's and rides and handles very well. You can upgrade later to adjustable rear upper control arms if go with a new CV style driveline.
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post #6 of 19 Old 10-08-2007, 06:18 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the skinny on lifts........

I believe Blk Dia was rescued by Superlift. It appears that they use many of the same componets, if not they share a whole lot of the same descriptions between the 3" BlkD and the 4" SupL. I also see that they make a point of saying their lifts contain the cams necessary to correct alignment. Not sure I have enough knowledge to ask the right questions, but here goes! Are the cams just one of a multiple ways to correct the alignment issue or is this something not provided with other lifts? If not provided and needed, that narrows the field considerably. Poly Performance is 10 minutes away and they look promising also, just not sure I need that level of capability. I have also looked at the body lift / suspension lift combination. Seems like the easiest way to go large on the tires and keep the stock ride, the body lift portion concerns me. Long arm is probably overkill for my expectations. I appreciate the disagreements, not becasue someone is right or wrong, but becasue you guys provide a reason. I aways enjoy a debate where the argument is reinforced with facts as opposed to volume.

I got the jeep to take me places I can't go with my other vehicles. At this time I don't see myself competing on the rocks or going fast enough on the dirt to max out the suspension. I enjoy the scenery on the way in, the destination and the scenery on the way out. I don't want to end providing kidney belts and sport bra's for my passengers. I don't mind wrenching to add capability, but try to limit it on the trail. I would rather help you fix your jeep then fix mine cause I got too frisky. I know this is a slippery slope, one thing leads to another! BTDT
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post #7 of 19 Old 10-08-2007, 07:24 PM
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1. Cams are a bad idea even if they come with a kit.
Reason: Cams will only give you a couple of degrees of alignment. Usually not enough to correct your castor and pinion angles. The big down side to cam bolts is you have to knock out these little squares in the control arm mounts to allow the cams to move the angle. Once that is done there is no going back unless you weld and even then it's kind of shootty. So once you do cam bolts your are stuck with them for life. You really are better off getting adjustable lower control arms and having the flex they provide, the adjustability and the durability.

2. I really like my body lift from MORE. Pretty clean lift and doesn't cause any problems. There is an interference problem with manual tranny's but they tell you how to fix it with a little trimming on the lower sift boot. If you are in Santa Barbara look me up and I will show you. It's solid and I have never liked body lifts.

3. The only reason I mentioned to get the upper arms as well is I did it half assed once before and learned from my mistake. If you want arms it's better to get them all at once rather than peice meal it together over a few years.

Jeep: 07 Wrangler X 2DR Black
Crime Guard Alarm with 2way pager, AFE CAI, DynaPro Exhuast
M.O.R.E. Body Lift, Source Co2 Tank, Stubbied Stock Front Bumper
KMC XD 795 Hoss Black 17" wheels and Maxxis Bighorn 305/70/17 tires
Every mod in the write up section.

Old Jeep: 04 Wrangler X Yellow Built To The Hilt For Three Great Years.

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post #8 of 19 Old 10-25-2007, 06:24 PM
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I'm now planning on putting 35's on my Tera 2.5 BB lift. If it rubs too much, then I think I'm going with flat fenders. I really like the stock ride with the lift.

07 Yellow Rubi 4 door
- 2.5 Rock Krawler

- OR-FAB Tire Carrier w/Wedco Fuel and Water Jerry Cans

- XHD Front Stuby
- Xenon Narrow
- Superchip
- Pro Comp Series 8128
- 35/1250x17 MT/R Kevlar (Discount Rocks !)
- Synergy Suspension Tie-Rod/Drag Link, Fox ATS!
- Black HotHead Headliner

- Winch (Need)
Finished Pictures->
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post #9 of 19 Old 10-27-2007, 10:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOAT1 View Post
A 3" lift should fit 35s perfect. You do not really need adjustable uppers with a 3" lift and stock drivelines, you only need adjustable lowers to get the castor and rear pinion angle correct. Without changing any steering components you can just use an adjustable front track bar. For the rear you can use the stock track bar with a relocation bracket, but get a good bracket that also attaches to the axle tube and not just the stock bracket, the stock bracket will rip off.


You should check out our Stage I JK suspension kit http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/home.php?cat=710, it include adjustable lower control arms, adjustable front track bar bracket, rear track bar relocation bracket, longer brake lines, sway bar links, bump stop spacers, and rear shock relocation brackets. The 3" kit works very well with 35's and rides and handles very well. You can upgrade later to adjustable rear upper control arms if go with a new CV style driveline.
Hi new here! Im in the same thoughts, what to fit 35´or 37´tires. Waiting to get my first Jeep,a new 5 door JK, 2008 Rubicon! Today I run a Nissan Patrol with 35´tires and a 2´OME lift (srings and shocks). Works just fine. But when towing I would really need a 4.88 ring and pinion... stock on the Patrol is 4.11 (solid axles front and rear) If I want to go for 37´tires on the JK do I need to change gearing in the axles when towing? I going to tow my Defender 90 competition car (2200kg). Or if I stick to 35´tires maybe no need changing gearing in axles? I really like the Poly Performance stage 1, 4.5 lift. Is there need to change the drive shaft aswell on the 4.5 inc lift? Many questions...sorry....but new to Jeep, I really looking forward to this JK!
Thanks,
Sam
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post #10 of 19 Old 10-28-2007, 11:10 PM
 
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Thanks for all your input...
/Sam
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post #11 of 19 Old 12-07-2007, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
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Track Bar and Control Arm questions

Ok, finally got a Super Lift 4” kit with the Bilstein shocks. The kit is bare bones, essentially 4 springs, 4 compression stops, a front track bar, a rear track bar relocation bracket, rear sway bar links, brake line relocation hardware, and caster adjustment cams. This leaves me a lot of options for arms, track bars and a few questions. I have seen numerous threads on this and other forums where the consensus was to go with a new front track bar and not a relocation bracket. The reasons given were to maintain correct geometry. I also have read that the front track bar bracket on the JK is subject to breaking. Other companies such as Poly offer what appear to be bullet proof relocation brackets for both the front and rear track bars that are advertised to work with 3” to 4.5” lifts using the stock track bars. My questions; Are they achieving the correct geometry with relocation? Would a new track bar still the preferred option? Would I be better off just reinforce my front stock track bar bracket and call it good with the new bar? I also like the Poly high steer drag link, but once again it requires the use of their front track bar relocation bracket.

Control arms generated more questions. I like both the Rock Runner arms and the Poly arms. I like them both for different reasons that would only result in never ending debate. All of the lower Rock Runner arms are available, not sure if any of the upper Rock Runner arms are available. Not sure if any of the Poly stuff is available yet. I think I know that to eliminate the Super Lift caster adjustment cams I need adjustable arms in the front, but which, upper, lower or both? Super Lift says the lowers will do the trick. Other threads have led me to believe that I need adjustable uppers. Any help on this?

RocRat - Residing in Arroyo Grande on the Central Coast of Cal
08 Flame Red Rubi UnLTD
Garmin Zumo, Yeasu FTM-10R, Shrock Midee, Warn 9.5si, JE Reel Drivelines, Super Lift 4" with lower adjustable arms, please send money!
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post #12 of 19 Old 12-07-2007, 05:08 PM
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I prefer to relocate the track bars at the axle, it raises the roll center and flattens the track bar, but you do have to flip the draglink. The best steering and front track bar geometry would be to use our relocation bracket and draglink and stock track bar, but using the stock steering and adjustable track bar will work fine. I dont think you need to reinforce the front track bar bracket if you are just using an adjustable track bar. You don't need new front upper control arms, just adjustable lowers. I dont know what the superlift rear track bar looks like but if it is not braced or clamped to the axle tube, the stock bracket will break off.

BTW all the Poly suspension parts are instock, shocks next week, adjustable track bars in January.

Those of you that think you know everything really annoy those of us that do!
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post #13 of 19 Old 12-07-2007, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocrat View Post
..... I think I know that to eliminate the Super Lift caster adjustment cams I need adjustable arms in the front, but which, upper, lower or both? Super Lift says the lowers will do the trick. Other threads have led me to believe that I need adjustable uppers. Any help on this?
Ditto....See the recommendations from my prior thread...It mentions the need for adjustable upper control arms to correct the pinion angle, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilD View Post
If you were doing just one set of control arms I think you'd be better off doing the uppers, as when you adjust them to set the pinion angle right you will rotate the top of the axle forward. If you just do the lowers then you will rotate the bottom of the axle backwards and effectively move the axle backwards, when it in fact needs to go forwards. Doing both would let you set the correct axle position and pinion angle.

Good cancellation of U-joint operating angles is within 1°.
Operating angles less than 3° (U-joint system).
Operating angles less than 10° for constant velocity joint.
At least 0.5° continuous operating (propeller shaft) angle. On one U-joint system less than 1.5° operating angle.


I've found that anything over 7.5° with a front UJ shaft (JE Reel in my case) will cause excessive vibration. Less than 3° is spec whichever driveshaft you have, but I think 5° is fine.

Obviously the more you correct the pinion angle the worse your caster will be become. It is traditional for pinion to take precedent, and also what the FSM calls for, but with a little compromise on both, you can find something that will work well, ie: vibration free and good steering feel.

Last edited by aldaman; 12-07-2007 at 09:05 PM.
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post #14 of 19 Old 01-16-2008, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
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Caster Smaster

Phil

A little confused. I was under the impression that I would adjust the lower arms longer to correct caster. It seems to me that the caster is caster whether gained by lengthing the lower or shortening the upper. It would seem either way the pinion is twisted lower, making a compromise necessary, but as you said caster being priority. I have attached a simple but accurate pic of my current measurements. I think if it uploaded correctly!

thanks again for any input, its all good and my skin is thick
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RocRat - Residing in Arroyo Grande on the Central Coast of Cal
08 Flame Red Rubi UnLTD
Garmin Zumo, Yeasu FTM-10R, Shrock Midee, Warn 9.5si, JE Reel Drivelines, Super Lift 4" with lower adjustable arms, please send money!
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post #15 of 19 Old 02-10-2008, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
No matter which route you take the first step should be to the local 4by shop and ask for some re-welding/beefing up on the factory axles before you install a lift.

I've heard the factory welds are n't the best-- is this what was being referred to??

-Tall Peter

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post #16 of 19 Old 04-12-2008, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
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I like the Super Lift 4" so far.............

I installed the 4" Super Lift by myself over two weekends, working about 8 hours each Sunday. I did the rear one weekend and the front the next weekend, my 60's motor head mentality not allowing me to lift the front and leave it that way while waiting to do the rear. SL has you do the front first and replace the swaybar links with those from the rear. If you reverse the order remember that SL instructions are not going to remind you to remove the front swaybar links again. This over sight will become obvious when you attempt to drop the front axle. Additionally do not forget to disconnect the ESP sensor wires and the brake lines if you want to do this job without spring compressors. At first I thought no way am I getting that stock spring out. The trick is two floor jacks, one to support the axle and the other to raise (compress) the opposite side. This allowed me to remove the stock springs and install the new springs with no problem. I advise going with a new longer brake line kit, much cleaner and you won’t have to unbend what you bent to make the supplied adapters work. I also advise adjustable arms with any kit. Cams work, but are a compromise. SL only had the lowers at the time of my purchase. Adjustable lowers will allow caster and pinion adjustment in the front and pinion adjustment in the rear. You will typically lengthen the front to gain more caster, but not so much as to drop pinion angle, the front is a compromise between the two. The rear will typically be shortened to point the pinion at the t-case. I did have to chase the threads on the adjustable arms from SL to make them adjust smoothly and to actually get them to the directed lengths. They worked fine after that, but I thought they could have been welded and assembled with better quality control. Adjustable uppers will allow for the same adjustments – just adjust the opposite direction. Adjustable lowers with adjustable uppers may keep the axle more centered, not sure if that is critical. Any ideas on this subject? Steering was off as expected and was easily corrected by checking the wheels straight and adjusting the clamp. You can do this yourself. I did notice during the front install that the driveline contacted the trans pan and skid plate, this has been discussed on this and other forums. I also noticed the steep angle at the t-case, this bothered me more then the rubbing of the boot and d-line. A Rzeppa failure just waiting to happen. It may last a while, but it will eventually fail at that angle. I like to pick when to battle repairs. I will replace the front d-line this weekend at my home and not on the trail. Stock wheels, tires and gears for now, but plan on 35 with 5.13's. Lower is better with the high reving V6, the OD will actually function as an OD and it should pull like a mule without using a lot more gas.

I like the Super Lift 4", but it is my first lift on my first Jeep, not my first 4X4. The ride is firm, but not harsh. The articulation seems great.

ROCRAT

RocRat - Residing in Arroyo Grande on the Central Coast of Cal
08 Flame Red Rubi UnLTD
Garmin Zumo, Yeasu FTM-10R, Shrock Midee, Warn 9.5si, JE Reel Drivelines, Super Lift 4" with lower adjustable arms, please send money!
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post #17 of 19 Old 04-15-2008, 06:32 PM
 
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Quick question for the experts here, I have a 2008 JK and have not bothered to crawl under the JEEP and look for myself but here's the question.......Is it not possible to drop the transfer case on a JK to compensate for the added driveline angles? Also, it looks like some if not most are mixing and matching suspension parts from different manufacturers ie springs and control arms......this is cool right???? I mean whatever works correct????? Please advise!
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post #18 of 19 Old 04-16-2008, 04:47 AM
 
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OME 2.5" Lift kit with shocks and choice of springs...that's the complete kit, and absolutely nothing else is needed...if there was a need for additional parts, trust OME would have included it in the kit...lift will clear 35's with no rubbing using stock wheels...best and most expensive minimalist kit on the market.
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post #19 of 19 Old 04-17-2008, 11:16 AM
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I started with the Superlift 4" kit and slowly replaced everything I wasn't happy with, which ultimately ended up been the whole kit. I am now running just about all Poly Performance stuff and have been very happy with it.
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