My Edelbrock supercharger install thread - Page 10 - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #226 of 301 Old 12-10-2016, 03:26 PM Thread Starter
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6) I have had numerous CEL occurrences that happen about once a month to two months. The codes are always the same two and they have also occurred since day one on both the canned Edelbrock tune as well as the Johan tune. I forgot the codes - lame, I know - since I have just been clearing them an mashing the throttle to get full power. They persist, none the less.
The codes reoccurred again the other day. I always hit the same two codes and they occur randomly when just putting down the street.

P113D & P113E
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post #227 of 301 Old 12-14-2016, 09:31 AM
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For my Airaid intake....

I removed the PCV port and super glued a dime (coin) over the opening. The dime did make contact with the wire harness/plug going to the alternator.

Then I just ran the PCV to the air box with a small PCV filter on it on a barbed plastic fitting and small hose clamps. Worked really well, no problem no codes.

Not trying to brag, but I ran a 6.36 0-60. That was before my custom tune and the addition of my 9 psi pulley. The custom tune picked up a butt load of power due to the Magnuson tune being so rich. That 6.36 was on stock rubi wheels/tires and 3.73's. I was confident after the tune and more boost I'd have broken into the 5's with a good run. I also had a manual.

Boy do I miss my JK!
I found a place that will fabricate pulleys for the Magnuson, wondering why you did not go 60mm? Would it over-drive the rotors, or just a fit issue?
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post #228 of 301 Old 12-14-2016, 01:05 PM
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I found a place that will fabricate pulleys for the Magnuson, wondering why you did not go 60mm? Would it over-drive the rotors, or just a fit issue?
According to Edelbrock, the pulley that ships with the blower (65mm?) is the smallest you can go without over-driving the rotors.

@sst73 - Did you look at buying a DiabloSport or SCT PCM? I am actually surprised that SCT didn't try to sell you one. When I ordered my DiabloSport PCM it came ready to roll; popped it in and off I went. I think it was right at $500 (cheaper if you returned the core) and it takes < 5 minutes to install.
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post #229 of 301 Old 12-15-2016, 12:13 AM
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According to Edelbrock, the pulley that ships with the blower (65mm?) is the smallest you can go without over-driving the rotors.

@sst73 - Did you look at buying a DiabloSport or SCT PCM? I am actually surprised that SCT didn't try to sell you one. When I ordered my DiabloSport PCM it came ready to roll; popped it in and off I went. I think it was right at $500 (cheaper if you returned the core) and it takes < 5 minutes to install.
The question I have is regarding the Magnuson Supercharger, not the Edelbrock. Not trying to thread-jack, just have been unable to get in touch with The Punisher any other way; he had a 63mm pulley fabricated for 9 psi on his Magnuson. The highest available from Magnuson is 8 psi (66mm), which I purchased from SuperchargersOnline.com; anything over 66mm probably is over-driven in the Magnuson.

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post #230 of 301 Old 12-16-2016, 06:47 AM
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@sst73 - Did you look at buying a DiabloSport or SCT PCM? I am actually surprised that SCT didn't try to sell you one. When I ordered my DiabloSport PCM it came ready to roll; popped it in and off I went. I think it was right at $500 (cheaper if you returned the core) and it takes < 5 minutes to install.
No, I just put in the factory one. Didn't know this was an option to be honest. The factory one was cheap enough so I didn't push much into alternatives.
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post #231 of 301 Old 12-16-2016, 06:48 AM
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To finish up the install follow-up: I got the PCM changed, install with flash turned out to only be $105 so not bad on labor from the dealership. When I got home I had to email the new PCM info to Edelbrock, and they had an updated tune returned to me within an hour. I love those guys. I flashed the new tune into the new PCM and it took just fine, so I returned it back to factory and moved it to the garage and reflashed the tune prior to install. Installation had its moments but I managed to get it all done in 2 days/11 man hours, I took my time with it and didn't get in a rush since I allowed myself 3 days off work to do it, so it wasn't bad at all and a pleasant surprise that the install instructions were as straightforward and comprehensive as they were. This is my third day with it and I have to say I am very impressed with the return I get from it. It's awesome. Thanks for all the info in this thread, it was a considerable help.
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post #232 of 301 Old 12-19-2016, 07:54 AM
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Ok, now that I have been running this for a few days I'm very happy with it, but I would like to see if I can get some advice from those of you who have been running it for a while. There are vast amounts of recommendations on the thread as to how to get more gains from the SC on the system but they are done over timeframe and I'd like end result opinions. I'd like to get the most out of it I can but not sure what really will help and wont help as far as tune/mods. Currently I have a 2013 Sport S 5Speed auto with... 32's, stock gearing, and no lift yet I also used the SCT tune sent by edelbrock. (I've also run 93 octane in it for as long as I've owned it, not sure if that will play into tuning or not) As far as additional mods I have a K&N Blackhawk, and magnaflow dual axelback. I am open to moding the exhaust further up past the cat if it will help, adding custom tunes, or placing other mods as necessary. Currently my fastest 0-60 is 5.68 and I haven't tested it off-road yet. What are my best options to get the most out of it I can? All input is appreciated.
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post #233 of 301 Old 12-19-2016, 12:00 PM
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From what I gathered here - best bang for your buck to optimize the SC is:
1) Cold air intake of some sort (looks like you have that)
2) A custom tune for your application (email/virtual vs local/dyno)
3) Alcohol/water injection (like Aquamist - if you want to take it there)

Exhaust mods may raise higher RPM peak power but can drop low end grunt/torque.

That's just my summary - I'll let others chime in. I'm still awaiting install for my SC...
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post #234 of 301 Old 12-24-2016, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by AdrockTT View Post
From what I gathered here - best bang for your buck to optimize the SC is:
1) Cold air intake of some sort (looks like you have that)
2) A custom tune for your application (email/virtual vs local/dyno)
3) Alcohol/water injection (like Aquamist - if you want to take it there)

Exhaust mods may raise higher RPM peak power but can drop low end grunt/torque.

That's just my summary - I'll let others chime in. I'm still awaiting install for my SC...
Thanks man! I think tune is my next step. And thanks again for the tip on the exhaust mods... I hadn't really thought about it like that.
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post #235 of 301 Old 02-14-2017, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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So mine is now running like crap full time. It feels like a bad injector or spark plug on one cylinder but no codes are being generated. Though I have not checked recently, the MAP sensor seemed to be working properly and provided identical readings to the boost gauge, which is on its own discrete MAP sensor and controller. I have been wanting to do a tear down and inspect of the blower and intercooler now that I have some time and mileage on the kit. I also want to do a spark plug swap.



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Originally Posted by sst73 View Post
I also used the SCT tune sent by edelbrock. (I've also run 93 octane in it for as long as I've owned it, not sure if that will play into tuning or not)
Unless you are running a tune that advances your ignition timing the higher octane tune does nothing. The Edelbrock tune is for 91. If you want to use 93 (or I found similar results with 91+Lucas octane booster) then you need a tune to go with it so you can get more timing. Timing = HP. I got a 100 octane tune for the SC and while it runs great I think it was a waste now that I have WMI. I end up using the custom 91 octane tune (which gives me more timing and more fuel on the top I think to cool the combustion temps so even more timing can be brought in) which runs better than the canned Edelbrock tune. I just tweak the WOT timing setting on my own with the trinity. I do hope to get a proper WMI tune but I want to tie in the failsafe features of the Aquamist first since changing a tune file takes a lot longer than doing timing adjustments via "quick adjust."

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrockTT View Post
From what I gathered here - best bang for your buck to optimize the SC is:
1) Cold air intake of some sort (looks like you have that)
2) A custom tune for your application (email/virtual vs local/dyno)
3) Alcohol/water injection (like Aquamist - if you want to take it there)

Exhaust mods may raise higher RPM peak power but can drop low end grunt/torque.

That's just my summary - I'll let others chime in. I'm still awaiting install for my SC...
Yes, this. Excellent. Succinct.

1) Note to folks comparing to RIPP is that I think RIPP is the only on that comes with a "CAI" type high flow filter out of the gate. Others use the restrictive stock air box. For the record, I measured/logged a 1psi increase by going from the stock air box to the airraid that was on when I was still NA.

2) A custom tune will get you more ignition timing. It will net you some fuel (AFR) adjustments as well but the most HP increase comes from the timing advance. If you do not plan to go WMI then maybe get two tunes. An optimized 91 tune plus a 93 tune or what ever you have readily available. A quality octane booster such as Lucas, Torco or one of the others with MMTs will bump your octane 2-3 points. I bought couple of cases from amazon and ran them through the jeep. I was able to get even more ignition timing out of my tune than I was getting with the WMI! Reason is that the higher octane is always being sprayed through the main injectors and the WMI only kicks in under some load/rpm when it is triggered.

3) Yeah baby!!


Make sure you have a tuning device that allows you to watch both KNK RTRD LT and KNK RTRD ST so you can keep an eye on that evil and destructive force known as detonation.

The other tidbit is that I recommend rigging up a wide band o2 sensor (maybe between uggestionss 1&2 above). You can get a custom tune without the wbo2 but they only look at the knock retard and tweak your timing. I don't think they can really do much with the AFRs.

Regarding the pulley size on a maggy - I think when you upgrade the maggy to the max pully size that just brings up to where the Edelbrock is. The have the same rotor pack inside the housings and likely the same specifications in terms of their upper RPM limits.
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post #236 of 301 Old 02-17-2017, 11:32 AM
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Thanks for the troubleshooting video on your misfire. I am looking forward to getting my blower installed and going. Appreciate this thread.
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post #237 of 301 Old 02-17-2017, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the troubleshooting video on your misfire. I am looking forward to getting my blower installed and going. Appreciate this thread.
I would recommend a set of plugs with the install. I have had a misfire and some rough running since I installed the kit. Probably it was there when i was NA and I am just forgetting.

With the couple of other blower kits that I installed before, I put plugs in as well. Mostly because a lot of other kits tell you to go a step colder anyway in the heat range.

So far, my jeep has been running excellent with only three of the six plugs replaced. smooth idle, smooth running in the light throttle, low RPM situations where folks are complaining of surging/hesitation.
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post #238 of 301 Old 02-17-2017, 01:32 PM
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I would recommend a set of plugs with the install. I have had a misfire and some rough running since I installed the kit. Probably it was there when i was NA and I am just forgetting.

With the couple of other blower kits that I installed before, I put plugs in as well. Mostly because a lot of other kits tell you to go a step colder anyway in the heat range.

So far, my jeep has been running excellent with only three of the six plugs replaced. smooth idle, smooth running in the light throttle, low RPM situations where folks are complaining of surging/hesitation.
I just the P306 misfire code pop and had the passenger side head swapped by the dealer under the extended warranty (thank GOD before the SC install - or I'd have gotten blamed). No further light since I had them do the head change.

Do you think they swapped plugs at the time (given the misfire code)? I guess I should just swap them up during install anyway huh...?
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post #239 of 301 Old 02-17-2017, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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I just the P306 misfire code pop and had the passenger side head swapped by the dealer under the extended warranty (thank GOD before the SC install - or I'd have gotten blamed). No further light since I had them do the head change.

Do you think they swapped plugs at the time (given the misfire code)? I guess I should just swap them up during install anyway huh...?
Unlikely. And this coming from someone who has done factory warranty work on cylinder heads. Plugs are a wear item, which is just another way to say "customer pay" item.

Yes, put them in. Get the NGKs. Caerfuly put the coil packs back together. I dropped the spring in from the coil side and put them together.

Putting plugs in during the blower install is especially convenient because you will be able to get to the passenger side plugs before you put the intercooler lines in.
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post #240 of 301 Old 02-19-2017, 09:19 PM
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Glad you figured it out. I had a plug foul at 5k miles post install and it eventually lit an O2 sensor code after a few hundred miles. After a new sensor didn't fix it, I pulled plugs and found the fouled plug quickly. New NGK plugs have it running well.

One benefit of the S/C is its easier to change plugs than when stock.
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post #241 of 301 Old 02-20-2017, 12:36 PM
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Good God man, what exhaust do you have on that thing? I have the magnaflow and it doesn't sound anywhere near that good; I think mine sounds more like a honda. I can also hear your blower way better than I can hear mine though it has changed quite a bit since I ditched the airaid box and went to a straight cone filter.

Curious, which NGK plugs did you go with? I didn't see a part number up there **edit: saw it in the vid**. Did you go one step cooler on the plugs? I am planning to do mine (while I have the fenders and inners off of it this week) along with an oil catch can of some sort because I have oil building up at the nose to body area.

Last edited by obajoba; 02-20-2017 at 12:51 PM.
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post #242 of 301 Old 02-20-2017, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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Glad you figured it out. I had a plug foul at 5k miles post install and it eventually lit an O2 sensor code after a few hundred miles. After a new sensor didn't fix it, I pulled plugs and found the fouled plug quickly. New NGK plugs have it running well.

One benefit of the S/C is its easier to change plugs than when stock.
Yeah, the plug change is easier for sure but I am not sure I would call the plug "fouled" per se, as in implying that it could be cleaned and re-used.

I have replaced plenty of "fouled" plugs (on the 1986 RX-7 for example - those things came in pushing a tow truck all the time with fouled plugs). Fouled plugs are wet with gasoline. In my case, they were not wet. Best I would say is that they had a more shiny (but dry) black varnish on the plugs. I also believe that in my case that the one spark plug was in a semi-failed state giving me the drivability problems that I have had since day 1. Then the plug failed completely. Replacing just the plugs in the drivers bank fixed the cylinder missing problem plus the other hesitations etc I noted earlier in the thread.

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Good God man, what exhaust do you have on that thing? I have the magnaflow and it doesn't sound anywhere near that good; I think mine sounds more like a honda. I can also hear your blower way better than I can hear mine though it has changed quite a bit since I ditched the airaid box and went to a straight cone filter.

Curious, which NGK plugs did you go with? I didn't see a part number up there **edit: saw it in the vid**. Did you go one step cooler on the plugs? I am planning to do mine (while I have the fenders and inners off of it this week) along with an oil catch can of some sort because I have oil building up at the nose to body area.
The exhaust is the Flowmaster American Thunder kit but you can get just the HP2 muffler. It is just that HP2 muffler after the cats and collector with no other resonator.

No. Stock plugs. I just looked them up by number on the NGK web site. They also make direct replacement coil packs. If mine ever fail, I will replace them with NGKs.

edit: FWIW, if you caught it in the video, my plugs (the good ones) had an orange taint to them. Taint fuel and taint methanol. The orange color comes form the MMTs in the octane boosters that I used. I ran two cases of Lucas Octane boost through the motor.

Last edited by White13JKUR; 02-20-2017 at 10:45 PM.
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post #243 of 301 Old 02-23-2017, 07:53 PM
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It was highly suggested when I had my prodigy turbo kit. Your ignition system has to be on point when under boost. I don't know why any manufacturer wouldn't suggest it.

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post #244 of 301 Old 02-24-2017, 04:07 AM Thread Starter
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It was highly suggested when I had my prodigy turbo kit. Your ignition system has to be on point when under boost. I don't know why any manufacturer wouldn't suggest it.
We should all be doing a plug swap with FI. Me, I should have known better. I was gambling on the OE plugs going the distance. I think I had that semi-failed plug since I was NA and just don't remember. I have never been a fan of Champion plugs anyway. I wonder how long the NGKs will last. I have also had good luck with the NDs. Not a yuge Bosch fan.

It definitely runs smooth as silk now that all 6 plugs have been replaced with NGK and indexed.
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post #245 of 301 Old 02-24-2017, 04:43 AM
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indexing washers

have you tired these before CSR 530: Spark Plug Index Washers Sizes .043, .054, .064 in | JEGS

I have also heard a train of thought that goes the other way in regards to indexing plugs FI engines. some think that you need to close the gap on boosted engines so that the boost does not "blow out the spark" if that makes sense and index away from the intake valve so that the spark doesn't get "blown out" . I would think this would only be a issue running very high boost numbers . anyway nice video
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post #246 of 301 Old 02-24-2017, 08:00 AM Thread Starter
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have you tired these before CSR 530: Spark Plug Index Washers Sizes .043, .054, .064 in | JEGS

I have also heard a train of thought that goes the other way in regards to indexing plugs FI engines. some think that you need to close the gap on boosted engines so that the boost does not "blow out the spark" if that makes sense and index away from the intake valve so that the spark doesn't get "blown out" . I would think this would only be a issue running very high boost numbers . anyway nice video
The main idea is to just put in a fresh set of plugs. Even though I went through the motions of indexing, I also see little value or reward in doing it. I'll be happy if it just runs more smoothly over a greater RPM range and over a long period of time and miles.

First of all, I read conflicting stories on how to orient the plug (toward the intake valve or toward the exhaust valve) and secondly everything known is based on 2 valve engines and not a 4 valve like ours.

I almost bought the indexing washers but canceled the order. Don't need them and I am not sure if they have any effect on the heat range of the plug once installed. I seemed to get them indexed without a single washer and returned all of the unused.
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post #247 of 301 Old 04-02-2017, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
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We should be running catch cans.....

So now that I have ~20k miles and 18 months on this install, I thought I would pull apart the top end and freshen up a few parts.

I am still in the middle of this, time slicing between family and stuff but what I can tell you now is that there is a ton of oil residue build up all along the intake tract of the blower from the point where the PCV connects. There is oil build up all over in the pressure side as well, under the blower as well as all over the top of the middle housing (with the intercooler in it) along with oil build up on the intercooler itself. It's pretty icky in there for only 20k miles.

While I have not gotten it torn down that far yet, I do suspect there to be oil on the underside of the intercooler between the middle housing and the lower housing with the intake runners. We shall see if that IAT sensor is caked or not.
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post #248 of 301 Old 04-03-2017, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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WOW!!! Even more oil under the intercooler. The intercooler itself is acting like a giant catch can and there is a little pool of oil collected at the back of the lower manifold (now that I have the blower and intercooler off).

I'll post the film later but I think that should convince folks to run catch cans. I think even the NA hemi guys do that.

I can see a ton of oil and crud on the MAP sensor (the 2BAR Mopar sensor that came with the kit).

The brass IAT sensor in the passenger side, read intake runner is also crudded up with oil.

This could also be the source of some of our drivability problems. Contaminated sensors and spark plus causing malfunctions or early failures.
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post #249 of 301 Old 04-03-2017, 07:55 PM
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tried to pm you but not sure my browser let me.

not going to do meth injection, just looking to be able to accelerate on the highway again.

would you recommend this kit vs what you've read about magnuson?


my jeep is a 2015 manual. i was looking to get a diablo pcm to make it work. saw a post of yours on another thread that you have a guy that would give a tune that could be loaded with a trinity instead of whoever edelbrock uses.

any advice you have would be appreciated. fee free to pm me to keep your thread on topic.

thanks
jesse
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tried to pm you but not sure my browser let me.

not going to do meth injection, just looking to be able to accelerate on the highway again.

would you recommend this kit vs what you've read about magnuson?


my jeep is a 2015 manual. i was looking to get a diablo pcm to make it work. saw a post of yours on another thread that you have a guy that would give a tune that could be loaded with a trinity instead of whoever edelbrock uses.

any advice you have would be appreciated. fee free to pm me to keep your thread on topic.

thanks
jesse
Hey,

I am a fan of the TVS either way. I like the Edelbrock better for the reasons stated in the first post.

It sounds like the Magnusson kit works with the stock oil filter on the 2014+ models so I personally would no longer have that objection.

I got my tune from Johan, AKA Diablotoona, and use a trinity plus wide band o2.

If I read the Magnusson instructions correctly, it looks like you have to assemble the stack (at least partially?) and then stuff the whole heavy assembly. With the Edelbrock, I can more carefully install one part at a time: lower manifold, heat exchanger then blower.

The Edelbrock black LTR (low temp radiator) is also a nice stealthy black. It looks like an A/C condenser or some other stock item to the untrained eye.

The Edelbrock kit is smog legal and I have observed/logged 10.01psi in 4th gear at red line by swapping the stock air box with a CAI. I think I hit 9.4psi with the sprayer switched off. You cannot out a smaller pulley on it - it's maxed out as delivered. The Magnusson requires a "high altitude" kit to get the smaller pulley and even then I think you have to go a tad smaller to get what the Edelbrock already has. If smog legal is an issue for you then only the Maggy base kit is CARB approved. Add to this that the Maggy base kit is also higher in price than the higher boost E-Force base kit.
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