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post #1 of 52 Old 08-08-2015, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
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Am I doing it wrong?

So I've been putting together a build plan. It's ever growing as I'm sure everyone else's is... But I wanted to check in to see what others think on the order of things...

1. MetalCloak Full Overline System - Purchased
2. Front & Rear Bumpers
3. Warn Winch 9.5 cti-s
4. Dana 60s Axle Swap F&R 5.13 Gearing & Lockers - Electric or Air?
5. Upgrade Steering
6. 37s - Wheels & Tires
7. Rubicon T-Case.
8. Teraflex Low Range Shift Sector Kit
9. 3.5" MetalCloak Game-Changer 6Pak
10. AntiRock F&R


This is being built as a daily driver with medium off-road trail use.

Any thoughts on build order and/or possible components that I don't have specifics mentioned?

Last edited by Altonymous; 08-08-2015 at 06:30 PM.
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post #2 of 52 Old 08-08-2015, 06:42 PM
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What year and model jeep do you have. If it's 2011 or older you may want to invest in a power adder. And I would imagine that medium off-road use, you'd be good with 44's. Shouldn't have to go 60's unless you just want to only do it once.

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post #3 of 52 Old 08-08-2015, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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What year and model jeep do you have. If it's 2011 or older you may want to invest in a power adder. And I would imagine that medium off-road use, you'd be good with 44's. Shouldn't have to go 60's unless you just want to only do it once.
It's a 2015 JKU. I am going 60s because I don't want to have to do it again; and it's sort of an insurance policy since it's my only vehicle.

I always say medium then I push the limits... It's in my blood.
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post #4 of 52 Old 08-08-2015, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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I should also add there will be great lengths of time between some of the modifications. So I have to carefully plan what I'm running and for how long. For instance.. After the bumpers and winch it might be a whe before I can get the axles. So I'll be going unlocked and stock tires for a while.
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post #5 of 52 Old 08-08-2015, 07:44 PM
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If you are gonna do 3 1/2" lift you'll need drive shafts and brake lines. I'd add some rock sliders.
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post #6 of 52 Old 08-08-2015, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by longlegs View Post
If you are gonna do 3 1/2" lift you'll need drive shafts and brake lines. I'd add some rock sliders.
The first thing I'm doing is rock sliders. It's part of #1. The 3.5" system has the brake lines. I was under the impression 3.5" lift on a JKU doesn't need a new drive shaft for that small of a lift. I'd go 2.5" but as I understand it 3.5" with 37s is the sweet spot for a DD JKU. Not sure if I should do 4.88 or 5.13 gearing though.

I'm coming from an LJR on 35s... So still trying to get the lay of the land.
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post #7 of 52 Old 08-09-2015, 05:50 PM
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Does your JKU have an automatic or the 6spd manual?

That will make a difference with great selection. Personally if it's a DD and will only see medium trails build 44s would be a better option. It will save you money and weight which translates to better gas mileage. Plus 44s have better ground clearance.

Front: Currie D44 with RCV shafts. If you want more strength go with ARB or OX 35 spline locker

Rear: stock D44 with a truss, ARB or OX Locker 35 spline.

Stock 44 shafts are 30 spline and are 1.3" diameter. 35 spline shafts are 1.5". So your shaft strength is the same as stock SF D60s. Full float D60s take the weight off the shafts but cost more.

If your concerned about the gear strength you can send the gears and bearings out to be cryogenically treated which adds 50%strength. That runs $75-125 per set.
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post #8 of 52 Old 08-09-2015, 06:27 PM
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I'd consider driveshafts insurance; with the 6Paks, likely necessary.

Maybe a full compliment of bellypans for those times when that sweet parking spot is accessed over the roof of a Prius?
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post #9 of 52 Old 08-09-2015, 06:31 PM
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I would not waste the money on 6 pack shocks, for the money you could go coil overs.
No hydro assist steering?
On board air would be nice to have for airing up.
I would not mess around swapping 44's if you can do the 60's go full float and be done with them.
8 lug wheels.
Driveshafts

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post #10 of 52 Old 08-09-2015, 09:47 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
I would not waste the money on 6 pack shocks, for the money you could go coil overs.
No hydro assist steering?
On board air would be nice to have for airing up.
I would not mess around swapping 44's if you can do the 60's go full float and be done with them.
8 lug wheels.
Driveshafts
Why would coilovers be a better option than the 6pak? What system would you recommend I look at for comparison? I really don't want long arm. So many issues with long arms.

Not sure hydro assist is street legal?

I have air on my camper, but yeah on board would be nice.. Which is why I'm leaning towards ARB lockers.
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post #11 of 52 Old 08-09-2015, 10:34 PM
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Price in more tunability with coil overs.

2007 JKR | PSC Big bore box | Rock Krawler 3.5" x-factor arms l SteerSmarts YETI track bar, tie rod, no drill flipped drag link, Griffin | Synergy frame brace | 37x12.5x17 Nitto RG's | Dana front DS | Fox IFP shocks | Artec front armor kit/Currie JJ's | Teraflex rear axle bracket | EVO Rockstars | Ridged D's, A pillar mounts | VKS sliders l Trek Armor seat covers | Superchips/Sprint booster | Savvy half doors w/ Bestop uppers
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post #12 of 52 Old 08-09-2015, 11:44 PM
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If you are only going to 37s, then the 44s would be a good axle. I've seen many people beat on 44s, and they are fine with proper insurance. It's all in the finesse of the wheeler. If you pin it to win it, eventually even those one tons are gonna cry uncle. If you're strategic and sensible with your driving styles, both on and off road, the 44 will give you a lot better bang for your buck. Plus, if you're like me, and you put one tons under there, eventually you will justify 40s, and it's just a snowball from there.
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post #13 of 52 Old 08-10-2015, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpstick View Post
Does your JKU have an automatic or the 6spd manual?
It's a Manual.
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post #14 of 52 Old 08-10-2015, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpstick View Post
Does your JKU have an automatic or the 6spd manual?

That will make a difference with great selection. Personally if it's a DD and will only see medium trails build 44s would be a better option. It will save you money and weight which translates to better gas mileage. Plus 44s have better ground clearance.

Front: Currie D44 with RCV shafts. If you want more strength go with ARB or OX 35 spline locker

Rear: stock D44 with a truss, ARB or OX Locker 35 spline.

Stock 44 shafts are 30 spline and are 1.3" diameter. 35 spline shafts are 1.5". So your shaft strength is the same as stock SF D60s. Full float D60s take the weight off the shafts but cost more.

If your concerned about the gear strength you can send the gears and bearings out to be cryogenically treated which adds 50%strength. That runs $75-125 per set.
I gave this some more thought last night and today. Talked with the wife and I think Dana 44s to start is a better option. If I get Dana 44s and decide to go bigger than 37s later it's potentially throwing away money.. but the inverse is true as well. If I go Dana 60s and never go bigger than 37s it's throwing away money. The benefit of going Dana 44s is that they are easier to resale in the event I decide to go bigger. Also, we don't have room for a 2nd jeep in our lives right now.. but we used to. And my wife said if we ever get the chance again she'd like to get one.. so if I outgrow 37s we can always hold onto them and put them under her Jeep.

I'm going to have East Coast Gear Supply do the work and I'm going to get Dana 44 w/ 35 Spline RCVs

So here's some questions for you guys..


1. Should I upgrade the ball joints? Chromoly or Dyantrac Pro Steers?
2. Does the ARB cover offer any advantages over stock?
3. I still can't decide between 4.88 and 5.13. I had a 6 spd manual LJ with 5.13 and 35s. For me it was great.. for my wife and I to share as a DD I'm afraid it may be too much to do 5.13s. But if the JKU handles it differently then 5.13s might be the way to go? I guess what I don't know is how JKU vs LJ compares with gearing. Need to spend some time on grimjeeper figuring it out I guess.
4. I have no idea on the differences between OX and ARB so need to do research. any advice in this area?
5. Should I truss the front axle or just the rear?
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post #15 of 52 Old 08-11-2015, 10:09 AM
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1- it is highly recommended that you go with a PR, Currie, TF, or G2 D44 instead of a Rubi. And when installing a new aftermarket 44 or would be better to spend your money on aftermarket ball joints opposed to stock ones.others can better tell you which ones will give you the best baby fit your buck, but you don't need the Pro steer.

2- yes the ARB cover is thicker and stronger. It will offer much better protection for your expensive Locker and gears. HD diff covers are cheap insurance. Plus they add a little rigidity to your center section. And that reduces hear deflection which is a big factor when gears fail.

3- with the 3.6L and the manual you will be fine with 4.88, you have a lower first gear than the autos plus the more powerful engine... 37s with 4.88 will wheel very well plus be great for DD and highway.

4- I will break down the difference in simple terms; OX, made in USA (Tampa, FL), comes with HD diff cover, you have the choice of air, electric, or cable shifted, and there is a piece available that if you air system fails you can put into the locker where the shifter goes into the cover to manually engage the locker.
ARB- made in Australia, does Not come with diff cover, only air actuated, requires extra labor cost to install due to drilling of the axle center section and air lines inside the axle, it also had seals inside the diff/locker that can (and in the long term leak) they require Locker removal to repair/replace. Parts are widely available for ARB.

The price difference is OX $1000 and ARB $1200. ARB install will be about $100 more. ARB diff cover is another $200... So initial cost is $500 more. Both are very strong and with all my research no one has definitive proof of one being stronger than the other. And any air leaks that development will be cheaper and easier to fix with an OX. So that's is why I have gone with air actuated OX 35 spline.

5- an aftermarket front 44 is much stronger than a Rubi so you don't need to truss it. As for the rear, the stock tubes are a little weak. I'm going to be installing the Artec rear truss. But remember your rear takes more abuse than the front so 35 spline is more important in the rear than the front.
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post #16 of 52 Old 08-11-2015, 11:48 AM
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I went right down the road you are driving on. On my third set of axles, 4th suspension, 4th set of wheels and tires, etc, and it is a 2013 JK.

I've run lots of stuff, including the MetalCloak Game Changer and 6paks. Have the Overline fenders (although selling the rear stuff). Mine started as a Sport with a manual trans. Here is what I learned.

- I think spending nearly $5k on a front D44 is probably the worst use of money that exists in the JK world. I could write a white paper on this... Top of the list is that for $5k, it better solve a lot more of the weaknesses of the stock axle. Same crappy unit bearings that are made for 30" tires, same small ball joints that will fail no matter how much you spend on a set. My second set of axles were built Rubicon axles. All the issues I had were not related to the housin. I blew up the front ring and pinion. Would have blown them up in a $5k Prorock too. Still would have replaced the Synergy ball joints that wore out in 5k miles. Still would have replaced the front hubs halfway through the season.

- 4.88 gearing and 37s is about perfect for the manual trans (on the highway I would have preferred 4.56).

- Swapping in a Rubi t-case was and always will be the single best mod I have ever done.

- 6paks are cool, but you don't want to own them. I went through 10 in one season. It is a massive target for rocks to hit - in the rear anyway. They need to be charged with nitrogen regularly, etc. If you don't wheel rocks a ton and are cool buying a $400 nitrogen kit, then might be worth it. They did work as advertised and were awesome off-road when they weren't blown up.

- Coilovers are great, but the guys I know with the bolt-on kits say it isn't worth it. Either weld on towers and design it right, or stick with normal shocks/coils.

- I loved e-lockers and hate that I have air lockers now. No need to add more variables or points of failure. Seems like every time I ever went wheeling with a group, someone had issues with an air line or compressor.

- The stock rear axle is darn strong. The weak spot is the plug welds that hold the tube in the cast. Not likely to fail, but they do. Just weld tube to the cast and it will be good to go. However, you will burn up wheel bearings and bend axle flanges long before you have to worry about the plug welds failing.
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post #17 of 52 Old 08-11-2015, 12:33 PM
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I'm going to quote Invest's post, which is excellent, and add some of my own 90% DD'ing experience and maybe ask a question or two....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invest2m4 View Post
- I think spending nearly $5k on a front D44 is probably the worst use of money that exists in the JK world.
Okay, cool, but to me there doesn't seem to be a perfect solution. ~11K for MOPAR/Dana 60's, more for Dynatrac. About the same for fab 9's. With a lot of work you can do Super Duty's for ~6K, plus wheels and electronic hassles. For me, a beefed up Rubi 44 is probably good enough (I haven't broken my D30) but I don't really want a locker that fits that case. An old kingpin D44 has weaker gears than the Rubi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invest2m4 View Post
- Swapping in a Rubi t-case was and always will be the single best mod I have ever done.
I've seriously thought about it. I have stronger rear axle shafts to go in, but I don't think my D30 would be happy at all. And as I said above, I don't know what to do in the front. Something to chew on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invest2m4 View Post

- 6paks are cool, but you don't want to own them. <snip>

- Coilovers are great, but the guys I know with the bolt-on kits say it isn't worth it. Either weld on towers and design it right, or stick with normal shocks/coils.
The OP didn't say where he lives, that I can see, but for a DD anywhere there's any kind of winter, I wouldn't spent much money on shocks. Cheap Bilstien's or Rancho's along w/ proper bump stop, limiting strap, and bracket location tuning will yield excellent performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invest2m4 View Post
- I loved e-lockers and hate that I have air lockers now. No need to add more variables or points of failure. Seems like every time I ever went wheeling with a group, someone had issues with an air line or compressor.
Taking your points one step further, I don't think you can beat Detroit TrueTracs on a DD Jeep. Nothing to break and you don't even have to remember to flip a switch. They just work. But if you're hanging tires, you need a locker.
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post #18 of 52 Old 08-11-2015, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tslewisz View Post
I'm going to quote Invest's post, which is excellent, and add some of my own 90% DD'ing experience and maybe ask a question or two....



Okay, cool, but to me there doesn't seem to be a perfect solution. ~11K for MOPAR/Dana 60's, more for Dynatrac. About the same for fab 9's. With a lot of work you can do Super Duty's for ~6K, plus wheels and electronic hassles. For me, a beefed up Rubi 44 is probably good enough (I haven't broken my D30) but I don't really want a locker that fits that case. An old kingpin D44 has weaker gears than the Rubi.



I've seriously thought about it. I have stronger rear axle shafts to go in, but I don't think my D30 would be happy at all. And as I said above, I don't know what to do in the front. Something to chew on.



The OP didn't say where he lives, that I can see, but for a DD anywhere there's any kind of winter, I wouldn't spent much money on shocks. Cheap Bilstien's or Rancho's along w/ proper bump stop, limiting strap, and bracket location tuning will yield excellent performance.



Taking your points one step further, I don't think you can beat Detroit TrueTracs on a DD Jeep. Nothing to break and you don't even have to remember to flip a switch. They just work. But if you're hanging tires, you need a locker.

I see nothing wrong with stock 44s and trussing the front, etc. Sure, a few reports of broken housings with a truss or sleeves, but it is very rare. If you don't wheel the crap out of it jamming 37s through rocks every weekend, you probably won't have issues with the other parts like I did.

I will say, that when I fired my jeep back up with the Super Duty axles, I didn't have a single light come on. ABS, traction control, speedo, etc, all work perfect. $20 for the dodge ram sensor wires up front that plug and play and $60 for the Artec tone rings and sensor adapters in the rear.

The Rubi t-case should lower the chance of failure in other areas. Going slower means less stress on the drive train (in many cases anyway). I ran it on 35s and my front D30 way back when it had stock axles.
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post #19 of 52 Old 08-11-2015, 01:15 PM
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The only reasons I'm running a selectable locker in the rear are, 1- a locker opposed to a limited slip is more predictable and better for offroad (I have burnt out LSD in performance cars at the track) mine isn't a DD it's a toy. 2- I have an automatic that's '12+ (NAG1 transmission) and an automatic Locker like a Detroit or Grizzly will throw it into limp mode. So for a true Locker I had to get a selectable one. Plus selectable lockers are the only ones available in 35 spline.
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post #20 of 52 Old 08-11-2015, 04:01 PM
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For that kind of money on a short arm or mid arm system, you might want to look at going to a good long arm system and never look back.. Add in some good shocks and be in a great place for yourself! If you have any questions feel free to give us a shout. We will be more than happy to wrap Jeep with you...

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post #21 of 52 Old 08-12-2015, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
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So to clear things up... I travel a lot. I don't have a stationary home persay..

So I will be all over the US.. All kinds of weather and all kinds of trails.

I went ahead with the MetalCloak system because I need something I can fix on the trail. I don't have a shop with a lot of tools and I won't likely ever be near the same shop to get a confidence level with them. Most of my work is going to be me on the side of the road or in a parking lot.

I still haven't pulled the trigger on axles changes yet. Still working on the deals. I'm find that the built up D44s is nearly as expensive as two turn-key D60s...

Front Dana 44, Sleeved, 35 Spline RCVs, ARB Cover, Locker, Pro Steer Ball Joints
Rear Dana 44, Trussed, 35 Spline RCVs, ARB Cover, Locker

Have 5.13 gearing specced out but 4.88 is no big deal since we haven't begun.

This also gives me on-board air with the ARB Twin Compressor.

For $10.5k

Alternatively there's the Ultimate Dana 60s with 4.88 gearing, e-lockers, and u-joints

For about $12k

I feel like the beefed up D44s would be nicer for the DD aspect and the D60s would be better for off-roading.

I HATE when I get into situations like this.. Building my jeep up is supposed to be fun not stressful...
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post #22 of 52 Old 08-12-2015, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altonymous View Post
So to clear things up... I travel a lot. I don't have a stationary home persay..

So I will be all over the US.. All kinds of weather and all kinds of trails.

I went ahead with the MetalCloak system because I need something I can fix on the trail. I don't have a shop with a lot of tools and I won't likely ever be near the same shop to get a confidence level with them. Most of my work is going to be me on the side of the road or in a parking lot.

I still haven't pulled the trigger on axles changes yet. Still working on the deals. I'm find that the built up D44s is nearly as expensive as two turn-key D60s...

Front Dana 44, Sleeved, 35 Spline RCVs, ARB Cover, Locker, Pro Steer Ball Joints
Rear Dana 44, Trussed, 35 Spline RCVs, ARB Cover, Locker

Have 5.13 gearing specced out but 4.88 is no big deal since we haven't begun.

This also gives me on-board air with the ARB Twin Compressor.

For $10.5k

Alternatively there's the Ultimate Dana 60s with 4.88 gearing, e-lockers, and u-joints

For about $12k

I feel like the beefed up D44s would be nicer for the DD aspect and the D60s would be better for off-roading.

I HATE when I get into situations like this.. Building my jeep up is supposed to be fun not stressful...

I think you would actually find the 60s as a better daily driver. With the hubs unlocked, the Jeep will steer and handle better and gas mileage is better since you reduce all the drag from not having shafts, gears, driveshaft, and t-ase spinning the whole time. Plus, the added caster correction is a huge win.
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post #23 of 52 Old 08-12-2015, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Invest2m4 View Post
I think you would actually find the 60s as a better daily driver. With the hubs unlocked, the Jeep will steer and handle better and gas mileage is better since you reduce all the drag from not having shafts, gears, driveshaft, and t-ase spinning the whole time. Plus, the added caster correction is a huge win.

You are just a bundle of good news...

Here's the front D60 that I'm talking about...

http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-194...-assembly.html

And here's the rear...

http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-194...ull-float.html
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post #24 of 52 Old 08-12-2015, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altonymous View Post
You are just a bundle of good news...

Here's the front D60 that I'm talking about...

http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-194...-assembly.html

And here's the rear...

http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-194...ull-float.html
Northridge4x4 has a package deal going. I think it is both axles and two driveshafts for $12k shipped. Pretty nice deal.

Edit: $11.7k http://www.northridge4x4.com/drivetr...kage-1-dtpkg1?

Last edited by Invest2m4; 08-12-2015 at 02:56 PM.
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post #25 of 52 Old 08-12-2015, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Invest2m4 View Post
Northridge4x4 has a package deal going. I think it is both axles and two driveshafts for $12k shipped. Pretty nice deal.

Edit: $11.7k http://www.northridge4x4.com/drivetr...kage-1-dtpkg1?

Yeah the deal with ECGS is $11k for the axles.. so not much different. The web site price isn't their final price if they do the install.
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