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post #1 of 15 Old 08-02-2015, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
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Rubicon Front Gear Install

I'm regearing the front axle to 5.13 Yukons.

Can any of you guys take a look at these patterns and give me some pointers?

Pinion shim .050 and backlash .010







Pinion shim .055 and backlash .005 (slightly under spec.)







Pinion shim .060 and backlash .007




Jason - KB0WLI
2008 Black JKU Rubicon
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post #2 of 15 Old 08-02-2015, 12:20 PM
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I'm not an expert, but it looks like your pinion is a little too deep. Your backlash is at the top of the spec range (0.006" to 0.010").
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post #3 of 15 Old 08-02-2015, 07:47 PM
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The middle pattern looks like the best one to me with the .055" shim. You could always increase the backlash a couple thousands.

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post #4 of 15 Old 08-02-2015, 09:22 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input. I tested a .057 pinion shim and ended up with an .008 BL that looked better than the .055 pattern. Went ahead and setup the pinion with the .057 and pressed on the new bearing.

Got a little ahead of myself and accidentally installed the seal w/o putting in the oil slinger!

Pulled myself together long enough to make an attempt at extracting the seal in a reusable shape, didn't work... oh well, you win some, you lose some. Couldn't source a new seal here in town, so I ordered one. Will post final results later.

Jason - KB0WLI
2008 Black JKU Rubicon
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post #5 of 15 Old 08-13-2015, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quacktacular View Post
Thanks for the input. I tested a .057 pinion shim and ended up with an .008 BL that looked better than the .055 pattern. Went ahead and setup the pinion with the .057 and pressed on the new bearing.

Got a little ahead of myself and accidentally installed the seal w/o putting in the oil slinger!

Pulled myself together long enough to make an attempt at extracting the seal in a reusable shape, didn't work... oh well, you win some, you lose some. Couldn't source a new seal here in town, so I ordered one. Will post final results later.
Did you leave the baffle behind the bearing race that is closest to the pinion head? If so and you used .057 depth, you are likely about .020-.030 to deep. And your pictures show it...
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post #6 of 15 Old 08-13-2015, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
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Little bit of a delayed response, I got the new seal last week and finished up the install making sure to put the slinger in before the seal!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RWKHausSupply View Post
Did you leave the baffle behind the bearing race that is closest to the pinion head?
In the end... no. I realized while waiting for the new seal that all of the initial testing was done while using the original races including the baffle. When I installed the new races for final test and install I left the baffle out and set the new bearing with the .057 shim. So before final setup I added additional shims to make up for the missing baffle thickness of .017".

Quote:
Originally Posted by RWKHausSupply View Post
If so and you used .057 depth, you are likely about .020-.030 to deep. And your pictures show it...
Can you give some more detail on this?
I started with the stock shim of .046" (with .017" baffle) and a BL of around .007" and had the pattern rubbing all the compound off the top of the tooth. .055" left some on the top and seemed pretty well centered on the tooth.

The final setup was:
Pinion shim: .074"
Backlash: .007"

I did another pattern run with the new races and .074" shim and it looked much like the other .055 - .057 patterns.

At this point I have about 140 miles on the gears, running 4 hi with the rear drive shaft removed. They are quiet and seem to be running much cooler than the initial 100 miles worth of 15-20 mile cycles.

Patterns:







Rear install begins tomorrow.

Jason - KB0WLI
2008 Black JKU Rubicon
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post #7 of 15 Old 08-13-2015, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quacktacular View Post
Little bit of a delayed response, I got the new seal last week and finished up the install making sure to put the slinger in before the seal!


In the end... no. I realized while waiting for the new seal that all of the initial testing was done while using the original races including the baffle. When I installed the new races for final test and install I left the baffle out and set the new bearing with the .057 shim. So before final setup I added additional shims to make up for the missing baffle thickness of .017".



Can you give some more detail on this?
I started with the stock shim of .046" (with .017" baffle) and a BL of around .007" and had the pattern rubbing all the compound off the top of the tooth. .055" left some on the top and seemed pretty well centered on the tooth.

The final setup was:
Pinion shim: .074"
Backlash: .007"

I did another pattern run with the new races and .074" shim and it looked much like the other .055 - .057 patterns.

At this point I have about 140 miles on the gears, running 4 hi with the rear drive shaft removed. They are quiet and seem to be running much cooler than the initial 100 miles worth of 15-20 mile cycles.

Patterns:







Rear install begins tomorrow.
Those pictures are Deep. At least .007 to .010, or maybe more.

Typically (If I recall at my desk, all my notes for the JK are on my shop wall), the JK front likes .020 baffle under race, and .030 to .040 under pinion head bearing. Which leads me to think that you really are about .017-.020 to deep.

front typically wont make noise and may even survive setup like you have it. Rear will not...
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post #8 of 15 Old 08-13-2015, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWKHausSupply View Post
Those pictures are Deep. At least .007 to .010, or maybe more.

Typically (If I recall at my desk, all my notes for the JK are on my shop wall), the JK front likes .020 baffle under race, and .030 to .040 under pinion head bearing. Which leads me to think that you really are about .017-.020 to deep.

front typically wont make noise and may even survive setup like you have it. Rear will not...
I am confused... Does the JK Dana 44 not setup the same as other axles? Do you not look for a pattern that is centered on the tooth and leaves a little compound at the top of the tooth?

What in my pictures indicates the pinion is too deep?

Can you post some pictures of a good pattern in a JK?

Not trying to be a dick or question your numbers / experience, just trying to understand what I should be looking for.

Jason - KB0WLI
2008 Black JKU Rubicon
RIPP Stage 2, RockHard Bumpers, RockKrawler 3.5" X-Factor & Fox 2.0's, Nitro Sleeved, Artec Trussed & Gusseted, Synergy DL Flip, Energy green Spyder Louvers, 37x12.50-17 Falken Wild Peaks wrapped around 17x9 XD Addics
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post #9 of 15 Old 08-13-2015, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quacktacular View Post
I am confused... Does the JK Dana 44 not setup the same as other axles? Do you not look for a pattern that is centered on the tooth and leaves a little compound at the top of the tooth?

What in my pictures indicates the pinion is too deep?

Can you post some pictures of a good pattern in a JK?

Not trying to be a dick or question your numbers / experience, just trying to understand what I should be looking for.
Nothing special with any diff.

Here this might help..

https://www.google.com/search?q=gear...w2j9vGIQ9kU%3D

Good luck with it....
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post #10 of 15 Old 08-13-2015, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Also can you throw out some starting values for the rear? They will be helpful for tomorrow.

Jason - KB0WLI
2008 Black JKU Rubicon
RIPP Stage 2, RockHard Bumpers, RockKrawler 3.5" X-Factor & Fox 2.0's, Nitro Sleeved, Artec Trussed & Gusseted, Synergy DL Flip, Energy green Spyder Louvers, 37x12.50-17 Falken Wild Peaks wrapped around 17x9 XD Addics
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post #11 of 15 Old 08-17-2015, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
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Thread title is a little off with this post, but I got the rear gears installed this weekend.

Install went well once we chased down the .012 ring gear runout that was due to improper seating on the carrier! Once reinstalled on the carrier properly runout was down to .003" variance.

The pattern was consistent around the ring and backlash stayed in spec at .008 - .010 around the ring.

Pinion depth was set using the stock shim at .044" as increasing even to .046 created a defined line on the root side of the pattern.




Jason - KB0WLI
2008 Black JKU Rubicon
RIPP Stage 2, RockHard Bumpers, RockKrawler 3.5" X-Factor & Fox 2.0's, Nitro Sleeved, Artec Trussed & Gusseted, Synergy DL Flip, Energy green Spyder Louvers, 37x12.50-17 Falken Wild Peaks wrapped around 17x9 XD Addics
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post #12 of 15 Old 08-19-2015, 07:04 AM
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Nice. When I was trained in setup in a manufacturer's service training course many years ago the instructor suggested dressing both the carrier and ring gear seating surfaces with a fine grit whetstone. Doing so will reveal any high spots on either one, too.


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post #13 of 15 Old 08-19-2015, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoK66 View Post
Nice. When I was trained in setup in a manufacturer's service training course many years ago the instructor suggested dressing both the carrier and ring gear seating surfaces with a fine grit whetstone. Doing so will reveal any high spots on either one, too.
I had run a file gently around both surfaces. When we put the ring on it got pulled slightly more on one side so we worked the other into place and it looked good until we were getting outrageous variances in backlash. We ran the dial indicator on the back side of the ring and found the .012" variance. When we pulled the ring off we found a 2" long sliver of what I think was case material between the gear and case. must have come off when we installed the ring.

While it was pulled apart I ran around both surfaces again with some 220 grit sand paper on a block. Once we reseated the ring paying close attention to gap we only had .002 - .003 runout.

While trying to grab a pattern on the factory gears I did notice that 3 of the ring gear bolts were loose. I tossed the wrench on the bolts to spin the gears to find the bolts turned rather than the carrier / pinion. I believe that the final high spot was centered around one of the loose bolt locations.

Jason - KB0WLI
2008 Black JKU Rubicon
RIPP Stage 2, RockHard Bumpers, RockKrawler 3.5" X-Factor & Fox 2.0's, Nitro Sleeved, Artec Trussed & Gusseted, Synergy DL Flip, Energy green Spyder Louvers, 37x12.50-17 Falken Wild Peaks wrapped around 17x9 XD Addics
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post #14 of 15 Old 01-01-2016, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quacktacular View Post
Thread title is a little off with this post, but I got the rear gears installed this weekend.

Install went well once we chased down the .012 ring gear runout that was due to improper seating on the carrier! Once reinstalled on the carrier properly runout was down to .003" variance.

The pattern was consistent around the ring and backlash stayed in spec at .008 - .010 around the ring.

Pinion depth was set using the stock shim at .044" as increasing even to .046 created a defined line on the root side of the pattern.



I am no expert nor have I done this before. However, I did look at the Yukon install instructions which indicate the proper pattern. and your last set of pics look like they have a good generally centered pattern. great work.

I am looking to do this same gear change from 4.10 factory to 5.13 (since I am considering changing the stock Rubicon tire which are 32" to 40". I am still working out the lift details. but I guess i'll post that question on another related section.

My question is; has anyone done this same swap but with [email protected] gears, please share you experience with process instructions, etc. ([email protected] appear to be similar quality and priced lower than Yukons.

thank you in advance...
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post #15 of 15 Old 01-01-2016, 08:06 PM
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I meant G2 gears
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