Inner c what welder to use? - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
 
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post #1 of 11 Old 07-14-2015, 09:17 AM Thread Starter
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Inner c what welder to use?

So my grandfather use to be a welder and just sold his last welder which really sucks cause I just got my arctic c gussets anyway I wanted to save some cash and buy a welder and have him do it he said I should get a arc welder. So my question is will a small 70 amp arc welder be fine for the install? Or do I need a bigger one
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post #2 of 11 Old 07-14-2015, 09:43 AM
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With all due respect to your grandfather (which I am sure is significant), if you are even having this conversation, you need to go to a pro and have it done.

A little 70 amp thingy won't even begin to put enough heat to those Cs.

Smarter people will be along shortly to provide more details, but a pro really won't hit you for that much money. Its just a matter of having the right gear and the patience to do it right.

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post #3 of 11 Old 07-14-2015, 10:58 AM
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You are welding 1/4" plate to solid forged steel C's. Generally speaking, welding 1/4" correctly calls for around 180-190 amps. Can you get away with a little less (say, 140 amps)? Sure, but with the right variables such as welding in the flat position, clean metal, etc. Personally, I don't make structural welds using incorrect parameters.

That all said, you still need to get fusion to the forged chunk of steel. In addition, the welding will be done in all positions. I usually run a hotter bead and focus the heat on the C (closer to 220 amps). Another option if you don't have the amperage is to preheat the C a little and use around 180 amps.

In the end, you can make the gussets stick on with less amperage. Just don't expect the welds to actually hold when they need to.

As for getting an "arc" welder, that is a category of welders that includes a range of weld processes such as FCAW, GMAW, GTAW, SMAW, and so on. Most people these days start with GMAW (aka, MIG, but not all gases are inert now, so the correct term is GMAW). A standard MIG machine can run solid wire and flux-cored wire. To get the kind of amperage you need, you will want a 220v machine. In theory, you could get it done with a 140 amp, 110v machine using flux-cored wire, but that takes some practice to make good welds.

Last edited by Invest2m4; 07-14-2015 at 11:05 AM.
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post #4 of 11 Old 07-14-2015, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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I was just trying to see if I could get it done using a cheaper welder just cause I really won't be needing to weld again after with so I didn't want to buy an expensive welder for a one time use. But I also didn't want to spend more to have a shop do it
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post #5 of 11 Old 07-14-2015, 02:09 PM
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You will spend a whole lot more getting set up to properly weld them on than you'll pay to have them welded in. Look for groups on Facebook or forums in your area and find a like minded individual (Jeep owner) who is willing to help you out.

Also, it is ARTEC.

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post #6 of 11 Old 07-14-2015, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock lobster View Post
I was just trying to see if I could get it done using a cheaper welder just cause I really won't be needing to weld again after with so I didn't want to buy an expensive welder for a one time use. But I also didn't want to spend more to have a shop do it
you have to pay to play. cars are an expensive hobby and cheaping out and taking shortcuts will cost you more money in the long run.


here's another question for you, what kind of power do you have access to where you are welding? 110v or 220v? you dont want to do this project with a 120v welder, i guess you can but i wouldnt (im not a welder but maybe someone can chime in on this). you'd want to use a 220v welder and if you dont have 220v in your garage you can tail one out of your panel if you have the electrical knowledge. but the material for that will also cost money.

but you can rent a welder from somewhere probably, so you would just need to run a 220v line out of your panel. and please dont cheap out on the wire you use when you run your line

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post #7 of 11 Old 07-14-2015, 03:22 PM
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Welder chiming in. I have a multi voltage power welder and i use flux core alot but go for 220v. You should only do this if you know what you are doing. Too much heat can cause warpage; fractures in the HAZ (Heat affected zone) and too little heat/filler metal can cause lack of fusion; weak welds, ect.

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post #8 of 11 Old 07-14-2015, 09:53 PM
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I've done lots of welding on my pig with an eastwood 135 with flux and couldn't be happier with it's performance for a smaller machine. I think it was around $300 New. I've welded my front truss, c-gussets, evo frame mount sliders, rear track bar bracket and numerous small projects for friends. Sure, a 220 machine is great if u can drop the coin but a smaller rig will do more than most people give them credit for. The only thing I wouldn't really feel comfortable doing with my welder would be a roll cage.
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post #9 of 11 Old 07-15-2015, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by family4x4 View Post
I've done lots of welding on my pig with an eastwood 135 with flux and couldn't be happier with it's performance for a smaller machine. I think it was around $300 New. I've welded my front truss, c-gussets, evo frame mount sliders, rear track bar bracket and numerous small projects for friends. Sure, a 220 machine is great if u can drop the coin but a smaller rig will do more than most people give them credit for. The only thing I wouldn't really feel comfortable doing with my welder would be a roll cage.

Your comments make no sense. You have a welder that is rated at 20% duty cycle @90amps. This machine is barely enough for 3/16" welding, and most projects you listed are 1/4". Yet you wouldn't use it for a roll cage,which is typically 1/8". Nothing to you personally, but I always laugh at the guys that say they get good welds with their 110v welder on 1/4". How do you know? Have you cross sectioned a weld to measure the penetration? Bottom line is that for 1/4" and up, they are not enough.
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post #10 of 11 Old 07-15-2015, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringer View Post
Your comments make no sense. You have a welder that is rated at 20% duty cycle @90amps. This machine is barely enough for 3/16" welding, and most projects you listed are 1/4". Yet you wouldn't use it for a roll cage,which is typically 1/8". Nothing to you personally, but I always laugh at the guys that say they get good welds with their 110v welder on 1/4". How do you know? Have you cross sectioned a weld to measure the penetration? Bottom line is that for 1/4" and up, they are not enough.

It says right in the specs for the machine that it is rated for up to 1/4 and I can say from experience that the 20% duty cycle is way underrated. I say I wouldn't use my machine for a cage because that is extremely critical, especially if my family is with me. I would just feel better with a bigger more powerful welder to tackle such a project. No offense taken to any comments or opinions, this is the internet after all. I'm just offering my view and experience. Not a newb to welding either, I used to weld anything and everything on heavy equipment.
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post #11 of 11 Old 07-15-2015, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by family4x4 View Post
It says right in the specs for the machine that it is rated for up to 1/4 and I can say from experience that the 20% duty cycle is way underrated. I say I wouldn't use my machine for a cage because that is extremely critical, especially if my family is with me. I would just feel better with a bigger more powerful welder to tackle such a project. No offense taken to any comments or opinions, this is the internet after all. I'm just offering my view and experience. Not a newb to welding either, I used to weld anything and everything on heavy equipment.

My point is not against your welding, just that proper penetration at 1/4" is 180-190 amps for GMAW. There is no way to achieve this with a 110v machine. You machine on mig is only rated for 12ga. They somehow list it higher with flux core, but even that should have around 170A for 1/4" and the machine can't do that either. I just don't want guys reading this to learn thinking that a 110v will allow them to weld these thicker components properly.
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