Rock Krawler 3.5 CASTER/CAMBER - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 01-01-2010, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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Rock Krawler 3.5 CASTER/CAMBER

Ok Recently installed my Rock Krawler 3.5 midarm X. I re-centered the steering wheel, so I thought and started getting ABS and other lights intermittently. So I took Jeep in for an alignment the other day. So here are the results:

FRONT LEFT

CAMBER -0.78
Specified Range -0.62 to 0.12

CASTER 0.85
Specified Range 3.70 to 4.70

TOE 0.10
Specified Range 0.09 to 0.12


FRONT RIGHT

CAMBER -0.60
Specified Range -0.62 to 0.12

CASTER 0.78
Specified Range 3.70 to 4.70

TOE 0.11
Specified Range 0.09 to 0.12

Following the alignment I am still getting a little wandering. FYI, I am running 35’s with Sprider Trax spacers.

It looks like I am out of specs on the LEFT Camber and way out on Caster BOTH sides.
I tried to search and think I found the answer but please chime in if I am wrong. I should be able to adjust the Krawler Joint on the lower control arm to bring it into the specified range. I am not sure if I should adjust the joint out (extend it) or in ( shorten it). Also, I am not sure how many rotations would bring it to the specified range.

I followed the Rock Krawler instructions and the assembled length of the lower control arms is 23.125. Everything else assembled per instructions.

Also, I was told that there is no factory adjustment for the Camber but I read that replacement of the ball joints may help. I only have 6000 miles on Jeep and 500 miles on new suspension.

What did I do WRONG? I am open to any suggestions.

Póg mo thóin!
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post #2 of 29 Old 01-01-2010, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jk_techcrash View Post
I should be able to adjust the Krawler Joint on the lower control arm to bring it into the specified range. I am not sure if I should adjust the joint out (extend it) or in ( shorten it). Also, I am not sure how many rotations would bring it to the specified range.
Easiest thing is to measure the pinion angle, as measuring the caster is a little tricky:

http://www.trailduty.com/temp/pinion_angle.pdf

You want to extend the lower control arms to increase caster, which will also increase the pinion angle. A 2° increase in pinion angle will be pretty close to a 2° increase in caster.

If you have an aftermarket drive shaft you can't have too much pinion angle otherwise you'll get vibration, which will lead to bad things. You can definitely get more caster than you have though.


Quote:
Also, I was told that there is no factory adjustment for the Camber but I read that replacement of the ball joints may help. I only have 6000 miles on Jeep and 500 miles on new suspension.
If you mean the Moog K7403 Problem Solver lower ball joints, they will not a fit, on a 44 at least. I tried and the taper does not seat right.
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post #3 of 29 Old 01-01-2010, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilD View Post
Easiest thing is to measure the pinion angle, as measuring the caster is a little tricky:

http://www.trailduty.com/temp/pinion_angle.pdf

You want to extend the lower control arms to increase caster, which will also increase the pinion angle. A 2° increase in pinion angle will be pretty close to a 2° increase in caster.
Hey Phil sorry, but don't you mean upper control arms?
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post #4 of 29 Old 01-01-2010, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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Ok thanks Phil. I have a factory drive shaft for now and I'll take a look at the pinion angle chart you linked.

I would like to get closer to the specified range in caster and I assume it should reduce the amount of wandering I have.

Is it lower or upper control arms that I need to adjust/ Extend to increase the caster?

Póg mo thóin!
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post #5 of 29 Old 01-01-2010, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, I'm really confussed now. Should I adjust the UPPER or LOWER control arms to increase caster?

If I shorten the UPPER that should increase caster, Right?
If I lengthen the UPPER that should decrease caster?

Does the same apply to the LOWER or is it just the opposite?

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post #6 of 29 Old 01-01-2010, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chromedome View Post
Hey Phil sorry, but don't you mean upper control arms?
Extending the lowers will increase caster. He mentioned adjustable lowers, but shortening the uppers would also increase caster.
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post #7 of 29 Old 01-01-2010, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilD View Post
Extending the lowers will increase caster. He mentioned adjustable lowers, but shortening the uppers would also increase caster.
Your right and sorry. I have adjustable uppers and lowers. It is easier to adjust the lowers so does it matter which one I adjust?

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post #8 of 29 Old 01-01-2010, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jk_techcrash View Post
If I shorten the UPPER that should increase caster, Right?
If I lengthen the UPPER that should decrease caster?
Correct.

Quote:
Does the same apply to the LOWER or is it just the opposite?
The opposite, lengthen to increase caster, shorten to decrease.
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post #9 of 29 Old 01-01-2010, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jk_techcrash View Post
It is easier to adjust the lowers so does it matter which one I adjust?
Not really, axle placement comes into play a little, but I dobt the amount of adjustment you are doing will make much difference. I wouldn't want to have uppers or lowers fully extended, so if one set is already adjusted out a lot, either adjust them in or the others out rather than adjusting them out. Hope that makes sense.
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post #10 of 29 Old 01-01-2010, 08:00 PM
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Like I said I'm no mechanic & I defer to Phil on this. He is absolutely right.
Lengthening the uppers would increase negative caster shortening them would increase positive caster (the direction you need to go!) Sorry for the confusion!! Have a beer on me
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post #11 of 29 Old 01-01-2010, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, that helps and makes perfect sence. I will look to see where I have them now and see which one to tweek. Thanks its all making sence now.

Póg mo thóin!
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post #12 of 29 Old 01-01-2010, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
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No kiddin, I need to drink more.

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post #13 of 29 Old 01-02-2010, 07:55 AM
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Holy cow, you need to add caster!

When you were setting the arms, how did you do it? The measurements we provide are operating lengths and they are extremely close. There are never more than 1/2 degree off per application. We will be open on Monday so please give the office a call and ask for a tech. We will be glad to help you out. You want to run in the stock caster range and tow ranges. Those are the only things you can adjust!

Shortening the front uppers or lengthening the front lowers will both add caster. You will get more caster for a given adjustment out of the lowers than you do the uppers. Just be sure to follow our guide lines for thread engagement. It almost sounds like the arms were installed as we sound them out with the joints threaded all the way in! We would expect those kind of numbers if that was the case. You have way more than enough adjustment to get were you need to go!

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post #14 of 29 Old 01-02-2010, 09:26 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Krawler Suspension View Post
Holy cow, you need to add caster!

When you were setting the arms, how did you do it? The measurements we provide are operating lengths and they are extremely close. There are never more than 1/2 degree off per application. We will be open on Monday so please give the office a call and ask for a tech. We will be glad to help you out. You want to run in the stock caster range and tow ranges. Those are the only things you can adjust!

Shortening the front uppers or lengthening the front lowers will both add caster. You will get more caster for a given adjustment out of the lowers than you do the uppers. Just be sure to follow our guide lines for thread engagement. It almost sounds like the arms were installed as we sound them out with the joints threaded all the way in! We would expect those kind of numbers if that was the case. You have way more than enough adjustment to get were you need to go!

Rock Krawler
No I adjusted them to the specified measurement and triple checked the measurements before they went on the vehicle. I will call a tech on Monday and see what they suggest. Thanks

Póg mo thóin!
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post #15 of 29 Old 01-02-2010, 02:27 PM
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If you can snap a few digital pictures of the thread showing past the end of the joints, that may also be useful for the conversation. If you get a chance, email them into [email protected] prior to calling. This will make sure our conversation is as productive as possible. This should be an easy one.


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post #16 of 29 Old 01-02-2010, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, I'll go do that now and email the pics.

PICS and email sent. Thanks and will call Monday.

Póg mo thóin!

Last edited by jk_techcrash; 01-02-2010 at 11:19 PM.
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post #17 of 29 Old 01-06-2010, 07:17 PM Thread Starter
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Chris from Rock Krawler, YOU and Rock Krawler ROCK!!

Took the lower control arms off and used your idea of HOT water to break loose the red thread lock. Worked great. Rotated the heim joints out 3 full rotations, re-secured the jam nuts, re-installed the lower control arms and went for a test drive. It drove so much better. No darting and wandering. Took in to shop to check numbers on the alignment rack and it's all good. FYI, 3 full rotations out gave me additional positive caster by 2.8°. I began at 0.8° and after the adjustment I’m at 3.6° on left and 3.8° on right. And more good news no DW.

Thanks Phil and chromedome for your help also.

Póg mo thóin!
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post #18 of 29 Old 01-08-2010, 11:32 AM
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Really glad everything worked out for you! Let us know if you have any other questions.

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post #19 of 29 Old 01-08-2010, 02:17 PM
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Good to hear its fixed.

Post up some pics of the jeep !
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post #20 of 29 Old 01-09-2010, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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Rock Krawler 3.5 X Factor INSTALLED. Finally, caster adjusted and rides AWSOME.
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Póg mo thóin!
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post #21 of 29 Old 01-09-2010, 07:24 PM
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I have this lift also and was wondering how to measure the arms. Is it from the center of the Bolt holes?
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post #22 of 29 Old 01-10-2010, 06:15 AM Thread Starter
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Yes it is from the center of each bolt hole. The directions are kinda vague and pics could be bigger and clearer, but I was able to muddle through it. If you have any questions what so ever, call RK tech at 518-270-9822.

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post #23 of 29 Old 01-10-2010, 06:19 AM
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It is center to center of bolt hole.
I pushed mine 1/8" farther than the specs.
Put it on the alignment rack and was perfect.

'09 4dr Rubi Detonator Yellow
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post #24 of 29 Old 01-10-2010, 07:52 AM
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i have the terafex 3" lift aaaaddid te 23" center of bolt hole to center of bolt hole and have 3.8 on the left and 3.9 on the right, i know different lift and heights but i wanted to say that i still have some wandering and may give them another turn or two out to see if it makes a dfference. so i guess where im going is dont be afraid to adjust more to get you to 4 degrees.
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post #25 of 29 Old 01-10-2010, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jk_techcrash View Post
Yes it is from the center of each bolt hole. The directions are kinda vague and pics could be bigger and clearer, but I was able to muddle through it. If you have any questions what so ever, call RK tech at 518-270-9822.
Thanks, where are you measuring to get the left and right caster angle? I have only seen diagrams like PhilD's measuring the DS.
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