Sleeves or truss? - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 12-12-2013, 08:33 PM Thread Starter
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Sleeves or truss?

So I just got a great deal on 35"s but dummy me didn't know about having to add sleeves or truss for strength. So which would be a better setup. I've read somewhere about sleeves interfering with splines(not that I know exactly what that means) but I'm guessing most people aren't going to build their d30 that much. I have no welding ability.

I was aware of adding c gussets and getting ball joints in case the stock ones fail from the gusset install.

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post #2 of 36 Old 12-12-2013, 08:53 PM
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Id go truss. But either is an upgrade. Trusses reinforce the housing and tie the axle tubes to the dif better it also helps from bending. Sleeves also help from bending by essentially making a thicker wall. It doesnt do anything foe housing strength or tie the axles tubes into the housing. The more splines on your axle shaft the larger the od. On the dana 30 i agree it probably wont matter. I believe Nitros are pound in and limit axle shaft splines, and other may not, unless I have that backwards.. Either way shouldnt be an issue for you.
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post #3 of 36 Old 12-12-2013, 09:07 PM
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Best suggestion I could give you is that if you are going to keep the 30 then order up a Artec JK Full Front Armor kit. For the money its the best insurance you can buy period. Don't bother sleeving, just truss and be done with it. Find some local guys that can help you and all should go well.
As far as ball joints go, order new Poly or Alloys. Pull the old ones before you install the truss and gussets. They will be the last thing you install just before painting the axle.

Do these things and you've done about all you can do to the front to keep it together under pretty hard use. Understand though that your u-joints are week and if you go out and play with the big boys you might end up breaking them. Just have a set available as backups just in case. They are pretty cheap and easy to come by.

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post #4 of 36 Old 12-12-2013, 09:53 PM
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You shouldn't have to be in a rush to do either truss or sleeves with 35s unless you plan on going out and thrashing it soon. Just treat it like you're going to drive it home and you should be ok for a while. Do it when you are ready, not when you're in a hurry. M&Ms gave you good advice though. Best bang for the buck, and for the pound, is the Artec setup.

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post #5 of 36 Old 12-12-2013, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maertz View Post
Id go truss. But either is an upgrade. Trusses reinforce the housing and tie the axle tubes to the dif better it also helps from bending. Sleeves also help from bending by essentially making a thicker wall. It doesnt do anything foe housing strength or tie the axles tubes into the housing. The more splines on your axle shaft the larger the od. On the dana 30 i agree it probably wont matter. I believe Nitros are pound in and limit axle shaft splines, and other may not, unless I have that backwards.. Either way shouldnt be an issue for you.
We meet again! Yep backwards, the Nitros allow you to run bigger axles. I have been going over this quit a bit lately as I plan out my own build and truss is the best choice then sleeves. Some say both but I read a thread where Artec said running sleeves and a truss could potentially put more stress on the axles and you should only run a truss. In my mind I would think a truss and sleeves would be the strongest but thats just in my mind. For 35's if you run a truss and do the C's you will have a pretty decent set-up. Add in some new chromoly axles and you will be pretty darn solid for most wheeling adventures.
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post #6 of 36 Old 12-12-2013, 11:10 PM
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I did both....either way they are both good....we have a few guys beating d30s HARD that are built with great success....
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post #7 of 36 Old 12-13-2013, 05:26 AM
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I did the sleeves years ago and now am going to do the truss soon. Sure not going to be able to get the sleeves out. But if you truss it, c gussetss and new ball joints you should be good to go.

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post #8 of 36 Old 12-13-2013, 06:57 AM
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Truss or sleeves is just a personal decision there might be a strength difference between the two but not something you will notice a difference on, simply a choice on how you want to install them or pay someone to do it. You do not have to automatically change ball joints just because of c gusset install. Keep the ball joints wrapped in a wet rag and take your time welding small sections at a time. My stock ball joints are still in 40k miles after my c gussets were welded on.
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post #9 of 36 Old 12-13-2013, 07:09 AM
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To me the truss made more sense. I installed poly ball joints after welding in my artec c gussets. The stock ball joints are nylon and non serviceable, plus mine were worn at 32k.
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post #10 of 36 Old 12-13-2013, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsbmg View Post
We meet again! Yep backwards, the Nitros allow you to run bigger axles. I have been going over this quit a bit lately as I plan out my own build and truss is the best choice then sleeves. Some say both but I read a thread where Artec said running sleeves and a truss could potentially put more stress on the axles and you should only run a truss. In my mind I would think a truss and sleeves would be the strongest but thats just in my mind. For 35's if you run a truss and do the C's you will have a pretty decent set-up. Add in some new chromoly axles and you will be pretty darn solid for most wheeling adventures.
Ha i just started over here. But yeah essential the d44 and 30 are damn near identical other than the housing. So gears would be the main concern.
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post #11 of 36 Old 12-13-2013, 07:13 AM
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I prefer trusses.

I also firmly believe that a sleeve that is not bonded to the housing (So nitro hammer in's) offer such minimal gains that they aren't even worth the time, unless you weld them in. At that point you're better off just doing a weld in sleeve from the start.

I did some rough calcs a while back. IIRC, a welded in sleeve gives only about a 66% strength increase of the tube only. Trusses add something along the lines of over 200%...

-Mike
2007 2dr X, 6sp, 35's on D44's, 2" lift, cage, hydro, etc.
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post #12 of 36 Old 12-13-2013, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKred07 View Post
I prefer trusses.

I also firmly believe that a sleeve that is not bonded to the housing (So nitro hammer in's) offer such minimal gains that they aren't even worth the time, unless you weld them in. At that point you're better off just doing a weld in sleeve from the start.

I did some rough calcs a while back. IIRC, a welded in sleeve gives only about a 66% strength increase of the tube only. Trusses add something along the lines of over 200%...
So a truss and weld in sleeves equal what then?

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post #13 of 36 Old 12-13-2013, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKred07 View Post
I prefer trusses.

I also firmly believe that a sleeve that is not bonded to the housing (So nitro hammer in's) offer such minimal gains that they aren't even worth the time, unless you weld them in. At that point you're better off just doing a weld in sleeve from the start.

I did some rough calcs a while back. IIRC, a welded in sleeve gives only about a 66% strength increase of the tube only. Trusses add something along the lines of over 200%...
I agree i welded my nitros.
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post #14 of 36 Old 12-13-2013, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Sams Misguided Child View Post
So a truss and weld in sleeves equal what then?
Strong enough, lol. Comparitivly, I don't this it's worth the effort to do both, BUT, you do gain wall thickness. Which can resist denting the tube.

-Mike
2007 2dr X, 6sp, 35's on D44's, 2" lift, cage, hydro, etc.
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post #15 of 36 Old 12-13-2013, 07:37 AM
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Sleeve

What brand/make 35" tire are you running?
If you upgraded to a KM2, BFG A/T or GoodYear MT/R I wouldnt
bother doing any of your planned axle upgrades!

Those tires are pretty light, and you shouldnt have any problems.

If you are running a Toyo M/T (80lbs), I suggest sleeve and gussets if you go off-road. IMO
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post #16 of 36 Old 12-13-2013, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
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What brand/make 35" tire are you running?
If you upgraded to a KM2, BFG A/T or GoodYear MT/R I wouldnt
bother doing any of your planned axle upgrades!

Those tires are pretty light, and you shouldnt have any problems.

If you are running a Toyo M/T (80lbs), I suggest sleeve and gussets if you go off-road. IMO
Theres more to it than weight, the bigger tires can put more leverage on parts.
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post #17 of 36 Old 12-13-2013, 08:34 AM
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If you don't plan on pulling the axles a truss seems the obvious choice as its the best anyway but if you are pulling the axles, for 120 bucks you can pound in some sleeves. If you don't weld, thats the easiest and cheapest solution for the do it yourselfer I think. I can't attest to exactly how much additional strength it will yield but for a 120 dollar investment can it hurt?
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post #18 of 36 Old 12-13-2013, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsbmg View Post
If you don't plan on pulling the axles a truss seems the obvious choice as its the best anyway but if you are pulling the axles, for 120 bucks you can pound in some sleeves. If you don't weld, thats the easiest and cheapest solution for the do it yourselfer I think. I can't attest to exactly how much additional strength it will yield but for a 120 dollar investment can it hurt?
But then you need to tools to do it.

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post #19 of 36 Old 12-13-2013, 11:01 AM
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But then you need to tools to do it.
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post #20 of 36 Old 12-13-2013, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by rsbmg View Post
This

http://www.harborfreight.com/10-piec...set-95853.html

plus this

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-lb-s...dle-94061.html

then find someone you hate to hold the driver while you pound the shit out of it with a sledgehammer.

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If people don't take a stand now,you'll be bitches under their thumbs tomorrow.
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I think too much of a pressure variant between Earth and outer-space... lack of oxygen... something like that.
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post #21 of 36 Old 12-13-2013, 11:34 AM
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Also around here some auto parts stores will loan specialty tools like a seal driver for free or a very small rental fee if you don't want to add it to your collection.
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post #22 of 36 Old 12-13-2013, 12:27 PM
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Truss all the way. Higher strength, lighter weight, easier install. Think of a truss as the exoskeleton of an insect or crustacean, or the fuselage of an airplane. That is where the strength comes from, especially when talking about structural spanning between the elements of an axle. It constraints the stress planes in a way that sleeves cannot and creates a much higher strength to weight ratio. Unsprung weight is nasty stuff that we should be trying to avoid where we can, so the difference in weight is also important (at least for guys like me who way over think this shit).

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post #23 of 36 Old 12-13-2013, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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I guess I'll be going with a truss. If I can find someone willing to weld on the cheap and correctly I'll get the artec setup otherwise I'm thinking about the pure jeep version.

Some friends convinced me that I'll be fine for the week as long as easy on the jeep. Here they are, Goodyear MTRK on AEV savegre.

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post #24 of 36 Old 12-13-2013, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for the advise

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post #25 of 36 Old 12-13-2013, 02:06 PM
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As long as you don't use the throttle like a dragster nor go seeing how high you can jump it you will be fine.

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If people don't take a stand now,you'll be bitches under their thumbs tomorrow.
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I think too much of a pressure variant between Earth and outer-space... lack of oxygen... something like that.
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