Aiming for LCG Long Arm kit with Duroflex Bushings and Coilovers - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 10-27-2013, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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Aiming for LCG Long Arm kit with Duroflex Bushings and Coilovers

Well its been a month since my axles were installed, so it's time to start thinking about spending money again.

I am thinking I want to go with a long arm setup but with Metal Cloaks duroflex bushings and coilovers. Ideally, I'd like to keep the lift pretty low (3" to 3.5") for daily driving but adjust it higher for wheeling. I am also planning on moving up to 37's and installing the bushwackers sitting in my garage.

I guess my real question is how to best get there.

I looked at the Rock Krawler 3.5 X Factor long arm kit with coilovers, but it seems like an expensive way to go, since I would still end up having to get a rear coilover setup and still changing out the bushings. Would this kit even play nicely with the Evo rear bolt on coilover setup?

I think a more cost effective way to go would be to get evo's front and rear bolt on coilover kits and then pair them with synergy long arm upgrade kit or clayton long arm upgrade kit.

Is the 2nd way going to be cheaper, or am I asking for trouble with too much mix and matching?

Am I off base here?

What is the best way to get there?

Has anyone done this yet?

Note: I don't care about JJs and how good they are. Someone has to try out the duroflex joints.

Note: My current set up: Front PR 44, Rear RJ III 60, 3" BDS lift with front adj trackbar, rear adj currie adj trackbar, 35's with 4.75 backspacking (going to 37's with 3.5 BS).

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post #2 of 27 Old 10-27-2013, 03:13 PM
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rk uses 1" shanks, duroflex are 1.25". youd be better off trying to go with something custom if that's the route you plan. you could also just buy the RK mounts and then check the lengths of the RK arms and make your own
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post #3 of 27 Old 10-27-2013, 04:15 PM
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Whats your goal with this jeep? Why do you want to go to CO and longarm?
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post #4 of 27 Old 10-27-2013, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cavallini03 View Post
Whats your goal with this jeep? Why do you want to go to CO and longarm?
At first I was considering just CO with mid arms, but I've read that the LA's will provide a bit better ride since they will be more level. Everything I've read also says that the long arms will maximize the benefits of coilovers.

My jeep spends most of its life parked at the Airport since I travel for a living, but I like to go wheeling rocks (Idaho is awesome) on the weekend.

I make a pretty decent living, especially during the fall and spring when I am really busy, so money isn't a super big issue, and why not go big.
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post #5 of 27 Old 10-27-2013, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sneck View Post
rk uses 1" shanks, duroflex are 1.25". youd be better off trying to go with something custom if that's the route you plan. you could also just buy the RK mounts and then check the lengths of the RK arms and make your own
I'm move of a pay people to make it sort of guy (not that I'm not fairly competent, but I spend so much time working, that truthfully, diy projects rarely get finished). Easier to buy something off the shelf.

Can I replace just the bushing? I know duroflex joints can replace JJ joints in arms, but I'm not quite sure on the Rock Krawler arms.
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post #6 of 27 Old 10-27-2013, 05:52 PM
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Yeah, been there with you. I'm a couple of beers in right now but if I recall, the only way to really get it done is with the RK LA pro kit (aluminum arms) which use a 1" shank on both ends. MC offers 1" shank straight end Duroflex joints if I remember correctly. My plan was to leave the axle end joints the RK Krawler joints - they are excellent joints - and put the Duroflex on the frame side where the poly bushing would normally go. RK won't make a solid steel or tubular arm kit with a threaded frame-side joint. You have two options - the RK LA pro kit or arms/brackets, or custom arms. Either way ain't gonna be cheap, so if $$ is a concern start thinking about your options now. This is the setup I'm going for on my '14 Rubi, cost be damned. You only live once. I'm aiming for 37s on about 3" of total lift, a good LCG build, but at this point I'm going with MC 6-packs and coils, assuming I can find coils that are long enough in their free length.

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post #7 of 27 Old 10-27-2013, 06:00 PM
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Another note - you're going to be hard pressed to get COs on only 3" of lift, unless you severely limit your droop/over all wheel travel and articulation. Consider something like the MC 6-packs, which will give you shitloads of travel so long as you can find coils with sufficient free length. COs usually require an absolute minimum of 3.5-4" of lift. The adjustability is nice, but you aren't going to gain anything in travel or articulation with them without serious body cutting, etc.

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post #8 of 27 Old 10-27-2013, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurbineGuy View Post
I make a pretty decent living, especially during the fall and spring when I am really busy, so money isn't a super big issue, and why not go big.
Quote:
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I'm move of a pay people to make it sort of guy (not that I'm not fairly competent, but I spend so much time working, that truthfully, diy projects rarely get finished). Easier to buy something off the shelf.
If you're paying a shop to do everything, just do a custom long arm setup. That way you can get it exactly how you want instead of mix and matching.
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post #9 of 27 Old 10-27-2013, 10:24 PM
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I am running coil overs with 4" of lift on a custom long arm and use the duroflex joints on the frame end of the links. Using johnny joints, ballistic and heim joints at the axle end. I have 14" travel up front and 16" on the rear but it is really a one off custom job. You should be able to fit a 12" coil over just fine with 3" of lift if you build it right.

I would assume you have a 69" or 70" wms on that rock jock which should allow you to run outboard rear coil overs with a frenched frame mount. up front you could have a custom shock mount built or use one of the dozen that are out there now. Ruff stuff has some good stuff at very reasonable prices compared to off road evolution and some of the other main stream lift kit guys. I would call up filthy motor sports in Bolder, CO to spec you out some coil overs for what you are looking for. Get some weights of your corners and figure out how you want them valved as well as the lift height to get them set up right.

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Last edited by thedirtman; 10-27-2013 at 10:32 PM.
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post #10 of 27 Old 10-28-2013, 07:29 AM
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With our new mounts, at 3.5" of lift we are able to run a 12" travel 2 5/8 coil over assembly. That is a nice amount of travel for being so low.

We would recommend running our Pro Series of Krawler Joint or Currie's Race Joint at the axle connection. If you are going for high articulation, you will need the +/- 30 degrees these joints offer. No other joints match them.

But, like others said, going long arm is great, but coil overs are really not required. You could easily accomplish the same thing with coils and shocks to get your feet wet.

RK
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post #11 of 27 Old 10-28-2013, 07:52 AM
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Running the Duroflex bushings is nothing new.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/ho...ks-up-1482467/

Custom suspension under a TJ using them. Excellence is what you'll get.
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post #12 of 27 Old 10-30-2013, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
I am running coil overs with 4" of lift on a custom long arm and use the duroflex joints on the frame end of the links. Using johnny joints, ballistic and heim joints at the axle end. I have 14" travel up front and 16" on the rear but it is really a one off custom job. You should be able to fit a 12" coil over just fine with 3" of lift if you build it right.

I would assume you have a 69" or 70" wms on that rock jock which should allow you to run outboard rear coil overs with a frenched frame mount. up front you could have a custom shock mount built or use one of the dozen that are out there now. Ruff stuff has some good stuff at very reasonable prices compared to off road evolution and some of the other main stream lift kit guys. I would call up filthy motor sports in Bolder, CO to spec you out some coil overs for what you are looking for. Get some weights of your corners and figure out how you want them valved as well as the lift height to get them set up right.
Sorry it took so long to reply. I am on a job site in Kentucky working 12's.

Dirtman, your rig is sort of my inspiration.

I really want to keep my rig as low as possible (lets just say I'm very short) so I have been searching for a LCG long arm kit that won't cause me to have to get a ladder.

Right now I am leaning towards the Full Traction long arm upgrade kit. http://www.full-traction.com/product...pension-24-dr/ since it's rated for a 3" lift. I should be able to replace the heim joints with duroflex. I just need to verify.

My alternate choice is the Evo Double D kit.

For coilovers, I was looking at the Icon JK coilover setup, as it looks really clean, but I am starting to also consider the Evo lever system in the rear. I just need to decide if the extra 2K is worth it.

Rock Krawler: Sorry guys, I really want the duroflex joints. I do like your coilover package and would probably consider it if it didn't come with the redundant parts (rear springs, adjustable track bars, etc that I would just have to get rid of).
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post #13 of 27 Old 10-30-2013, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
Running the Duroflex bushings is nothing new.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/ho...ks-up-1482467/

Custom suspension under a TJ using them. Excellence is what you'll get.
Your set up is another inspiration for me. I've read that thread several times.
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post #14 of 27 Old 10-30-2013, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Krawler Suspension View Post
But, like others said, going long arm is great, but coil overs are really not required. You could easily accomplish the same thing with coils and shocks to get your feet wet.

RK
I'm more of a jump in sort of guy.

Bottom line it though... can I replace your joints with duroflex? I've read that you don't use standard size thread (1 1/4") on your rod ends.

Edit. Apparently RK uses 1" threads for their rod ends. Metal Cloak does offer 1" threaded spuds. It's just an expensive way to get where I want to go... What really bums me out, is I really like RK solid control arms.

Last edited by TurbineGuy; 10-30-2013 at 05:33 PM.
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post #15 of 27 Old 10-30-2013, 06:45 PM
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why not just buy the RK kit and run their joints? the people praising how awesome the duroflex joints are are overstating things a bit. are they nice? yes. will you notice a better ride with them vs other quality joints? I bet not. if you want the rk kit, go rk and run their joints into the ground. if you need to replace them, at least you know MC offers a joint in the right size
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post #16 of 27 Old 10-30-2013, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneck View Post
why not just buy the RK kit and run their joints? the people praising how awesome the duroflex joints are are overstating things a bit. are they nice? yes. will you notice a better ride with them vs other quality joints? I bet not. if you want the rk kit, go rk and run their joints into the ground. if you need to replace them, at least you know MC offers a joint in the right size
Funny you should say that... I am thinking about calling RK to see if I can order a custom kit.

I would want the front coilover conversion, long arm set up with pro aluminum arms, and no rear springs or trackbars.
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post #17 of 27 Old 10-30-2013, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by TurbineGuy View Post
Funny you should say that... I am thinking about calling RK to see if I can order a custom kit.

I would want the front coilover conversion, long arm set up with pro aluminum arms, and no rear springs or trackbars.
Rock Krawler no longer makes the aluminum version. I was told they are working on a replacement, But nothing as of yet. I'm sure you can custom order their kit the way you want it though.

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post #18 of 27 Old 10-31-2013, 09:13 AM
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We do have our Off-Road Pro long arm system pictures on our website already, but the product descriptions are not done yet. These system feature our new Pro Series of Krawler Joint at each end of 7075 AL control arms. They are all based on what we use for our Ultra 4 and JeepSpeed builds. They are simply designed to take punishment with minimal wear points.

We are heading to SEMA, so we won't be on here much for a week or so, but we will be back after with tons of new products including the above systems… Good luck with your builds..

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post #19 of 27 Old 10-31-2013, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
Running the Duroflex bushings is nothing new.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/ho...ks-up-1482467/

Custom suspension under a TJ using them. Excellence is what you'll get.
Imped,

That is a nice write up. Just so we are clear here, you are judging our company and our products based on buying a small upgrade and trying to make it work with other components you already had, but when people mention that about other companies on here that you are a fan of, you tell them it is an unfair assessment since they are not running their entire system? There is a lot more to it than just adding triangulated links to your existing components to ensure the suspension performs up to par or exceeds your expectations as we are now sure you know after all the iterations you have gone through. Do you own a JK or are all your assessments based on your TJ build, which is a nice build now by the way.

RK
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post #20 of 27 Old 10-31-2013, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneck View Post
why not just buy the RK kit and run their joints? the people praising how awesome the duroflex joints are are overstating things a bit. are they nice? yes. will you notice a better ride with them vs other quality joints? I bet not. if you want the rk kit, go rk and run their joints into the ground. if you need to replace them, at least you know MC offers a joint in the right size
I would argue this point. The NVH differenece between a bushing and a metal on metal or cartridge joint is noticable. Mostly harshness. The Duroflex offers the cushioning of a bushing with the deflection of cartridge.

Is it enough to make me go out of my way to alter a ton of shit...

-Mike
2007 2dr X, 6sp, 35's on D44's, 2" lift, cage, hydro, etc.
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post #21 of 27 Old 10-31-2013, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneck View Post
why not just buy the RK kit and run their joints? the people praising how awesome the duroflex joints are are overstating things a bit. are they nice? yes. will you notice a better ride with them vs other quality joints? I bet not. if you want the rk kit, go rk and run their joints into the ground. if you need to replace them, at least you know MC offers a joint in the right size
Not sure if you have ridden in a Jeep with Metalcloak arms or Duroflex joints, but it does make a difference in ride quality. Since I have installed my Metalcloak arms, I let a few friends ride in my Jeep. Since then they have switched to Metalcloak. The ride is better, the flex is better then any arm with a joint on one end and a clevite on the other, & if you want the flex that metalcloak offers you need to run joints on both ends which leave your arms flopping around. Duroflex joints self center. Kind of hard to ask for more then that. Also after numerous offroading trips I pulled a couple joints out to inspect them. No wear and they are as tight as the day I got them. So far the best joint I've run, but time will tell.
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post #22 of 27 Old 10-31-2013, 09:46 AM
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I would argue this point. The NVH differenece between a bushing and a metal on metal or cartridge joint is noticable. Mostly harshness. The Duroflex offers the cushioning of a bushing with the deflection of cartridge.

Is it enough to make me go out of my way to alter a ton of shit...
It would be really cool if a non biased person did a full assessment of an entire control arm determining the total energy absorption capability of control arms as they are offered in the industry. We would recommend taking apart the joints to start with PV calculations for all the joints you have in question. NVH is important for street use. For our lower control arms for example, we feature our Pro Series of Krawler Joint which offers +/- 30 degrees of usable misalignment and at the frame we use a custom PTMEG bushing and sleeve combo. The PTMEG bushing and sleeve offers the largest amount of energy absorbing material at the frame connection of all the arms in the industry as well as +/- 12 degrees of misalignment capability and unlimited macro motion. Thus, our lower control arm features a total misalignment capability of +/- 42 degrees of usable misalignment, again, an industry leader for an arm used for street applications. It should be noted that the axle ends of the control arms do 80 to 85 % of the work taking up misalignment as well.

RK

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post #23 of 27 Old 10-31-2013, 10:22 AM
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Not sure if you have ridden in a Jeep with Metalcloak arms or Duroflex joints, but it does make a difference in ride quality. Since I have installed my Metalcloak arms, I let a few friends ride in my Jeep. Since then they have switched to Metalcloak. The ride is better, the flex is better then any arm with a joint on one end and a clevite on the other, & if you want the flex that metalcloak offers you need to run joints on both ends which leave your arms flopping around. Duroflex joints self center. Kind of hard to ask for more then that. Also after numerous offroading trips I pulled a couple joints out to inspect them. No wear and they are as tight as the day I got them. So far the best joint I've run, but time will tell.
i just rebuilt my TF lower arms with the MC joints. was it an improvement over my destroyed bushings? you bet. did it feel like I was driving on a cloud of titties? not so much. its still a jeep
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post #24 of 27 Old 10-31-2013, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Krawler Suspension View Post
It would be really cool if a non biased person did a full assessment of an entire control arm determining the total energy absorption capability of control arms as they are offered in the industry. We would recommend taking apart the joints to start with PV calculations for all the joints you have in question. NVH is important for street use. For our lower control arms for example, we feature our Pro Series of Krawler Joint which offers +/- 30 degrees of usable misalignment and at the frame we use a custom PTMEG bushing and sleeve combo. The PTMEG bushing and sleeve offers the largest amount of energy absorbing material at the frame connection of all the arms in the industry as well as +/- 12 degrees of misalignment capability and unlimited macro motion. Thus, our lower control arm features a total misalignment capability of +/- 42 degrees of usable misalignment, again, an industry leader for an arm used for street applications. It should be noted that the axle ends of the control arms do 80 to 85 % of the work taking up misalignment as well.

RK
PV calculation?

That would be an AWESOME read for a tech junkie like me. Hell if this were a few years ago I would have tried to take it up as an engineering senior project. It would have to include each joint individually as well as the performance of the entire assembly to be truly unbiased, as well as taking on alignment angles, etc.

-Mike
2007 2dr X, 6sp, 35's on D44's, 2" lift, cage, hydro, etc.
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post #25 of 27 Old 10-31-2013, 10:27 AM
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i just rebuilt my TF lower arms with the MC joints. was it an improvement over my destroyed bushings? you bet. did it feel like I was driving on a cloud of titties? not so much. its still a jeep
Did you do both ends? We just did both ends on my buddy's Teraflex long arm and made a huge difference. We cut off the clevite end off and welded a Metalcloak barrel on, then switched out the monster joint.
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