Front Axle Sudden Lock-up ARB locker - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 10-15-2013, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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Front Axle Sudden Lock-up ARB locker

I was trying to get my transfer case cable adjusted properly and went for a little test drive. I just got front and rear ARB lockers that were fine the other day when I was driving but then all of the sudden the front end locked up.

I jacked it up and the wheels turn (opposite directions), I took off the driveshaft and it spins freely but the pinion is locked. I'm assuming I F'ed something up on the install even though I'm very careful when doing stuff like that. I had a good wear pattern, 5-6 thousandths backlash and a bearing preload right about 15 ft/lbs.

It's an LS swap so right away I thought it was my trans but everything checks out fine. I got RCV's in there as well though I don't think that should matter

Just waiting for the tow truck to tow me 3 blocks back home, guess I'll be tearing it apart tomorrow. FFFFFFF

Any help here???

Sean
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post #2 of 28 Old 10-15-2013, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgo70 View Post
I was trying to get my transfer case cable adjusted properly and went for a little test drive. I just got front and rear ARB lockers that were fine the other day when I was driving but then all of the sudden the front end locked up.

I jacked it up and the wheels turn (opposite directions), I took off the driveshaft and it spins freely but the pinion is locked. I'm assuming I F'ed something up on the install even though I'm very careful when doing stuff like that. I had a good wear pattern, 5-6 thousandths backlash and a bearing preload right about 15ft lbs

It's an LS swap so right away I thought it was my trans but everything checks out fine. I got RCV's in there as well though I don't think that should matter

Just waiting for the tow truck to tow me 3 blocks back home, guess I'll be tearing it apart tomorrow. FFFFFFF

Any help here???





Sean
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post #3 of 28 Old 10-15-2013, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry I think it was more like 200ft/lbs, I meant to rotate the pinion was about 15-20 inch pounds I guess it was. Did it about a month ago memory not so good.
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post #4 of 28 Old 10-15-2013, 09:08 PM
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if the wheels are spinning opposite directions then your spider gears are fine. after you took the divershaft off and your tires were off the ground the pinion was still stuck? are was it stuck when the driveshaft was in? if the driveshaft isnt moving my guess is that you're in 4wd and you dont even know it

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post #5 of 28 Old 10-15-2013, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
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I jacked up the front and removed the driveshaft and the pinion is stuck. I suspected the transfer case originally cause that's what I was screwing with but the pinion won't budge even when I put it in gear it feels like it's gonna twist off.

Could it be the actual locker has a problem. I engaged and disengaged it and I can hear the solenoid releasing air.......if it's not the gears then I have no ideas.

Thanks for the input.
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post #6 of 28 Old 10-16-2013, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by chknkatsu View Post
if the wheels are spinning opposite directions then your spider gears are fine.
Agreed.

Just for thuroughness, engage the locker. Do the wheels now spin together, not opposite?

With the locker engaged can you rotate the tires at all, or is something preventing rotation at the R&P?

It could be really any of the bearings, or the interaction between the R&P. You're likely going to have to take it apart either way.

-Mike
2007 2dr X, 6sp, 35's on D44's, 2" lift, cage, hydro, etc.
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post #7 of 28 Old 10-16-2013, 07:50 AM Thread Starter
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I'll try engaging the locker to see. I got it towed back to my garage going to tear it open today.

Thanks again.
Sean
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post #8 of 28 Old 10-16-2013, 08:25 AM Thread Starter
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jacked it up and tryed the locker, it won't budge. Disengaged and wheels spinning opposite again. I guess the locker is ok, can't imagine the ring and pinion are gonna look too good.

I'm gonna start tearing it apart. Kinda funny that the back one took me forever and the front seemed to go so smoothly, now it's giving me the problem.

Sean
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post #9 of 28 Old 10-16-2013, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Sgo70 View Post
jacked it up and tryed the locker, it won't budge. Disengaged and wheels spinning opposite again. I guess the locker is ok, can't imagine the ring and pinion are gonna look too good.

I'm gonna start tearing it apart. Kinda funny that the back one took me forever and the front seemed to go so smoothly, now it's giving me the problem.

Sean
Good to hear it's probably not the locker then. Take some pics when you get it apart. At this point its either bearings or the gears themselves I would bet, but you're right, in either case there's a pretty high chance the gears are smoked.

-Mike
2007 2dr X, 6sp, 35's on D44's, 2" lift, cage, hydro, etc.
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post #10 of 28 Old 10-16-2013, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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Well got it all apart and the pinion was seized, the ring gear has a couple of little nicks in three teeth and the pinion was about the same. The inner bearing looks good but the outer is completely blown up and ground in there. Lasted about 6 blocks worth of driving.

I figure I must have preloaded it too much, or maybe the wrong bearing???

I bought it from a gear place next to where I got my driveshafts done and it was labelled for something else and there was a letter missing from the bearing part number on one but I can't remember which one. He said it was the same but I think I should chuck it through his window now.

Anyways the pinion is stuck, been trying to hammer it out but it's not budging. I'm assuming everything is garbage now so I'm not worried about wrecking it any more. Really stuck in there though, not sure what to do.

Sean
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post #11 of 28 Old 10-16-2013, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
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Jeez, priced out a new 4:10 ring and pinion $938!!!!!

Guess I'm going to 4:88's from G2 now, just ordered. I'm so excited I get to do this all over again. Gotta get the pinion out and then wait for parts again.
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post #12 of 28 Old 10-16-2013, 02:34 PM
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post #13 of 28 Old 10-16-2013, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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They're the stock D30 D44 set up on my Jeep. I've Artec trussed, sleeved, RCV's, ARB's, and Synergy ball joints so I can't just scrap it for a Prorock now......hindsight is a kick in the nuts.

I tried to push the pinion out on my 20 ton shop press and it wouldn't budge, even when heated. That thing welded itself on there and in only a short drive. Kinda scares me to try this again but I suspect a few things. First maybe wrong bearing, crush sleeve or I just set the preload too tight although if anything I thought I could have gone tighter. It's almost like it wasnt getting oil but the passageways were clear.

I ended up having to cut that bearing out with the plasma cutter, can't say I was too excited. Lined the inside to protect it and did a bit at a time. Got it all cleaned up and thankfully didn't hurt anything else........please send parts now.

The important thing is the engine runs nice.

Sean
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post #14 of 28 Old 10-16-2013, 08:15 PM
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Well got it all apart and the pinion was seized, the ring gear has a couple of little nicks in three teeth and the pinion was about the same. The inner bearing looks good but the outer is completely blown up and ground in there. Lasted about 6 blocks worth of driving.

Sean
What was your caster/pinion angle set at? Did you have an oil slinger installed? Is there a pinion baffle installed? Those are three things that could give oil starvation at the outer bearing.

Were the bearing races replaced/were they new bearings?

That's an awfully short time for the bearing to melt like that. Any pics? Even of scrapped parts?


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post #15 of 28 Old 10-16-2013, 10:46 PM Thread Starter
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yea it was new bearings and races, old ring and pinion. Caster and pinion angles have been the same for the last year before rebuild. I reassembled the same as I took apart and was very careful in measurements and settings.

I'm not sure of the names but the baffle is between the inner and outer races and the slinger is outside of the outer bearing, like a big washer? Am I correct? If so they were the same as what I removed.

It all kind of points like it was my preload or wrong parts, and yes I couldn't believe how melted it was in such a short run. I'll take pictures of the leftovers tomorrow. I really don't want this to happen again but I want to learn how to do it with confidence and I don't really trust many people in this city to do a good job. Ever since the boom there's nothing but hacks everywhere.

I appreciate all input, thanks.
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post #16 of 28 Old 10-17-2013, 06:17 AM
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yea it was new bearings and races, old ring and pinion. Caster and pinion angles have been the same for the last year before rebuild. I reassembled the same as I took apart and was very careful in measurements and settings.

I'm not sure of the names but the baffle is between the inner and outer races and the slinger is outside of the outer bearing, like a big washer? Am I correct? If so they were the same as what I removed.

It all kind of points like it was my preload or wrong parts, and yes I couldn't believe how melted it was in such a short run. I'll take pictures of the leftovers tomorrow. I really don't want this to happen again but I want to learn how to do it with confidence and I don't really trust many people in this city to do a good job. Ever since the boom there's nothing but hacks everywhere.

I appreciate all input, thanks.
Yup, Pinion Baffle is the thin flange pressed between the inner pinion bearing race and the housing, it holds a small pool of oil back for the outer pinion to scavenge. Oil slinger is the washer with a groove in it between the outer bearing and the yoke.

I'm curious how you sourced parts? You can buy a complete install kit from any reputable vendor. And FWIW, the pinion bearings are the same D30 to D44.

If you lost crush sleeve/pinion nut/bearing preload, a fairly noticable clunk and vibe would develop, and you wouldn't melt a bearing that quick from my experiance.

Don't get discouraged, while it sucks you're learning valuble things. Take it as an experiance you can apply later on.

-Mike
2007 2dr X, 6sp, 35's on D44's, 2" lift, cage, hydro, etc.
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post #17 of 28 Old 10-17-2013, 08:38 AM Thread Starter
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You got me thinking about pinion angle last night, I was wondering if because it sat on the lift for so long after I did it maybe the bearing dried out? This time I'll be able to drive it right away to get things flowing better.

I got a master install kit for the rear but the front was on back order for a few weeks, I called around in town and they told me they had them, of course it took him a couple of tries, looking back I should have just gone to the dealer cause the locker came with it's own carrier bearings and I just needed the pinion bearings. I think it was labelled for an XJ but he told me it was the same part number and the bearings were the same, my mistake there I shouldn't have listened.
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post #18 of 28 Old 10-17-2013, 09:51 AM
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Being on the lift shouldn't be an issue. The gear oil will get slung back up into the cavity (assuming it's not abstructed in any way) once you start moving the vehicle again. That said, if you were running an obsurdly high pinion angle/low caster angle, and did not have a pinion baffle installed, you have significantly lowered lubrication to the outer bearing. From what you've described that does not seem to be the case.

The XJ D30 will use the same locker as the JK D30, they were correct. Carrier bearings would be the same. Pinon bearings are JK specific. Is there a part number on the pinion bearing?

-Mike
2007 2dr X, 6sp, 35's on D44's, 2" lift, cage, hydro, etc.
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post #19 of 28 Old 10-17-2013, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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No, it's molten steel now. Had to cut it out with the plasma cutter, my 20 ton press wouldn't even push it out. Just happy I didn't wreck my diff case.
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post #20 of 28 Old 10-21-2013, 01:03 PM
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Pardon me butting in, this sounds like lack of lubrication, not setup. I won't insult your intelligence by asking if you put gear lube in, but could the oiling port for the bearing have been blocked?


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post #21 of 28 Old 10-21-2013, 01:32 PM
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Pardon me butting in, this sounds like lack of lubrication, not setup. I won't insult your intelligence by asking if you put gear lube in, but could the oiling port for the bearing have been blocked?


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I had the same thought at first but he stated in post 13 that the passeges were clear. And "6 blocks" of driving are fast to smoke a bearing, even one not receiving adequate lubrication.

I would like have seen pics, but oh well. You can tell alot from pictures, especially on bearing failures.

-Mike
2007 2dr X, 6sp, 35's on D44's, 2" lift, cage, hydro, etc.
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post #22 of 28 Old 10-21-2013, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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I agree it seemed like lack of lubrication but it was clear and clean as could be. I got some pictures but they were pretty bad trying to see in there. It looked like the bearing cage was wound right up inside there. I'll post what I got, I definitely don't want this to happen again and feel free to insult my intelligence it may be something obvious that I overlooked (had oil though).

Could having one of the carrier caps upside down or something cause this, I doubt it but I'll check the markings to my original photos.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/asdjhfh55ixsa8o/oh-8Nx6lVb

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/mooj75dl9xduz6s/hjGRpGazg_

Thanks for the help, I'll maybe do a build thread so you guys can keep an eye on me and help anyone else.

Sean
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post #23 of 28 Old 10-21-2013, 04:27 PM Thread Starter
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Took some more pictures. I was looking at a picture of the original crush sleeve to what's left on the new one, they look different.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/w8om7vvtc0m193e/DdpJIps3dh

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/1yetik3d4m4m0qn/FgakO4HMEe

Cleaned up and ready for round two

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/kjf89llwdi84mno/fQMP0e1csh

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/1a015nx33wrr2fr/z8zEB0wlJh

Sean
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post #24 of 28 Old 10-22-2013, 07:15 AM
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Took some more pictures. I was looking at a picture of the original crush sleeve to what's left on the new one, they look different.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/1yetik3d4m4m0qn/FgakO4HMEe

Sean
Ok. Looking at what's remaing of the inner race in this on pic, it looks like it's seen some serious brinelling. Can you get a clearer/closer pic of the remaing bearing surface?

Walk me through when you did final install of the pinion. Did you ever overshoot your pinion running torque? Did you ever have to hammer the pinion out of the housing to reset somthing? Better question, did you use setup bearings? If you overloaded the bearing in any way (high force transfered across the rollers and the two races) you can brinelle the race. Once you've done that, they can fail very quickly. Need more pics to be sure...

-Mike
2007 2dr X, 6sp, 35's on D44's, 2" lift, cage, hydro, etc.
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post #25 of 28 Old 10-22-2013, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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Here's a close up, I wiped the residue off (the black is just oily residue) and I can see fine small lines in the bearings. There's a lot of slag from the plasma cutter, I'm just happy it didn't wreck my housing!

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/da0g50urkxn9btm/r0ntENqOXj

I used set up bearings, didn't overshoot or back off and didn't hammer anything. I'm wondering if something happened when I pressed the bearing in but I know not to put any force outside of the race?????

The new gears are supposed to arrive tomorrow so I'll start again and take tons of pictures along the way. I have to go pick up a new baffle and slinger from the dealer in the morning and see what I have left for new set up bearings. Hopefully I still have them cause I don't imagine I want to re use that inner one, what do you think?

Thanks for your time once again,

Sean
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