Possible Vapor lock Issues - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 09-29-2013, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
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Possible Vapor lock Issues

This past weekend we went riding and camping at Gulches ORV park for the Crawlapalooza event. Max temp all weekend was like 75-78 or so. My jeep(09 JKUR) left me dead on the trail 3 times over a two day span. The first time it happend I didn't know what had went wrong. I checked fuses, relays, listened to fuel pump, opened fuel cap, pulled plugs, ect. After it sit for a while it just started right up. Both other times it happened I just opened hood and let it sit and it would start just fine after about 30mins or so. Sounds like vapor locking to me, what do you guys think? Fuel lines are really hot to the touch also.
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post #2 of 27 Old 09-29-2013, 11:14 PM
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It's possible that this didn't have anything to do with vapor-lock.

The JK has some inherent electrical issues/ gremlins that are seemingly becoming more and more common... especially with the 07-09 crowd. There are a few threads on the topic and the list of possible causes & potential remedies is pretty long and somewhat inconclusive... at least to a degree.

Two scenarios that seem to come up with some degree of consistency are starting issues and random dash-lights illuminating. There is also some speculation by some, that feel as if these issues might be linked to the TIPM going bad or the sway-bar connector being damaged or wet.

Whether or not any of this might apply to what you experienced is obviously something that would need to be looked into more extensively for a positive diagnosis, but I'm just putting it out there since your JK is an 09.

NOTE- There have also been some comments on this board that seem to indicate that this issue might be somehow linked to or more common in JK's with automatic transmissions, but I have an 08 manual and I'm dealing with a similar issue currently. I've done all that I can to try to track down this very random "sometimes it starts/ sometimes it doesn't" issue and have yet to find out why it's happening. I will be pulling some fuses tomorrow ( specifically the J11) in an attempt to disrupt the sway-bar function. After that I will likely consider taking it to the dealership for a possible TIPM replacement.

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post #3 of 27 Old 09-29-2013, 11:22 PM Thread Starter
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I did disconnect the swaybar connecter and reconnect it thinking it might have played a part, but to no fix. The engine was turnung over and trying to fire fine. The last time I had an electrical glitch common with our jeeps it would just click and not turn over. I'm almost possitive it was vapor locking bc sat afternnoon (3rd time no start) I went back to camp and pulled the inner fenders. The rest of saterday she ran fine(knocking on wood). IDK?

Last edited by saddis; 09-29-2013 at 11:28 PM.
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post #4 of 27 Old 09-30-2013, 12:03 AM
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I forget the name...

... But inside your TIPM there is the fuse that has the big white surround- that mofo can cause some problems. I had some issues with dying, no start, and the dash going dead- untill I reseated that fuse. FWIW

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post #5 of 27 Old 09-30-2013, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeucesALLin View Post
... But inside your TIPM there is the fuse that has the big white surround- that mofo can cause some problems. I had some issues with dying, no start, and the dash going dead- untill I reseated that fuse. FWIW
So, just pull it out and put it back in? LOL
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post #6 of 27 Old 09-30-2013, 03:36 AM
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I had a gremlin like this. One of my harness connectors (2nd one from the right as you face the connectors) was loose. I would have intermittent issues like stalling, then no start. Over a period of about 6 months it got worse, then we figured out the connector was bad. Found out by touching every wire under the hood while someone was cranking. I duct taped it and it hasn't been a problem since.




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post #7 of 27 Old 09-30-2013, 08:08 AM
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Vapor lock is highly improbable. Think about us guys who wheel here in Phoenix and Tucson in some of the hottest and most hostile trails in N. America. You would think that with so many JK's out here wheelin in 120+ degree weather that there would be at least one more account of said failure. Also, it is virtually impossible to get a high pressure fuel delivery system to vapor lock. The temperature it would take to cause vapor to form in the lines between the fuel pump and the rail would be obvious on your temperature gauge. I would do like LHR stated and start checking connection in and out of the TIPM and everywhere else. Troubleshooting stuff like this sucks, but you can do it.

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post #8 of 27 Old 09-30-2013, 05:11 PM
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for some reason i though i saw on xtreme4x4 that vapor lock on fuel injected motors in very unlikely due to the high pressure of the lines, but i could be wrong. but i do agree its prob not as that wasnet that hot outside and if you jeep never got hot it would prob be hard to have that happen unless some fuel lines moved

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post #9 of 27 Old 09-30-2013, 05:15 PM
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I'd lean toward an upset crank or cam sensor.

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post #10 of 27 Old 09-30-2013, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKCTAZ View Post
Vapor lock is highly improbable. Think about us guys who wheel here in Phoenix and Tucson in some of the hottest and most hostile trails in N. America. You would think that with so many JK's out here wheelin in 120+ degree weather that there would be at least one more account of said failure. Also, it is virtually impossible to get a high pressure fuel delivery system to vapor lock. The temperature it would take to cause vapor to form in the lines between the fuel pump and the rail would be obvious on your temperature gauge. I would do like LHR stated and start checking connection in and out of the TIPM and everywhere else. Troubleshooting stuff like this sucks, but you can do it.
X2. You're not getting vapor lock.


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post #11 of 27 Old 09-30-2013, 08:48 PM
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I was at Gulches with you, Skip mentioned that you and I share a common issue. Mine has never been that bad. Here's how it plays out for me:

Ive NEVER had this issue with normal or heavy/fast driving.

If I'm at low speeds or a stop for extended periods of time, for example slow speeds through most trails, or idling in heavy traffic and I shut the jeep off. When I go to restart, it will attempt to kick over, but then sputter out, never getting above 400rpm. Only once has the starter not kicked over and I had to shut it off.

Every time this happens, just letting it sit for a few minutes and retrying is enough to get through the sputter. The longest I've been unable to start for has been probably 15 min.

Its odd and as I said, only happens in low speed/ no speed situations.

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post #12 of 27 Old 09-30-2013, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys! I'll check all my connections on the harness and go from there. If it happens again and I find a fix I'll be sure to update thread.
Thanks
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post #13 of 27 Old 10-01-2013, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
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So, been street driving the jeep for two days with no issues up until I just left for work(3rd shift). Went to start it and it just kept turning over but no crank. Pulled all four harness connectors just like lefthandrubi said. No luck! Didn't have time to mess with it so just took wifes car to work. I'm gonna try some things in the morning and update. It's def not vapor locking. Just another electrical issue I guess?
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post #14 of 27 Old 10-01-2013, 10:08 PM
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Electrical gremlins are irritating.

Another simple idea:

Try shifting it out of park then back into park. Keeping foot on the brake, Then try starting.






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post #15 of 27 Old 10-01-2013, 10:51 PM Thread Starter
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Haven't tried shifting out of park and back, but I have pushed up on the shifter bc I heard the auto's give some people trouble from time to time. I'll try it when I get home.
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post #16 of 27 Old 10-08-2013, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
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Update:
Jeep would not crank in the driveway just a few mins ago. Took wifes car to work again! If I can't figure this thing out I'll be trading in shortly. I'm not gonna pay $400 a month on a unreliable vehicle period! Last fri morning I went to the shop after work and checked all wiring harness connections. I guess I could buy some crank/cam position sensors like Goody suggested before I give up. Rockauto has them for fairly cheap. IDK?
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post #17 of 27 Old 10-08-2013, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saddis View Post
Update:
Jeep would not crank in the driveway just a few mins ago. Took wifes car to work again! If I can't figure this thing out I'll be trading in shortly. I'm not gonna pay $400 a month on a unreliable vehicle period! Last fri morning I went to the shop after work and checked all wiring harness connections. I guess I could buy some crank/cam position sensors like Goody suggested before I give up. Rockauto has them for fairly cheap. IDK?
I would call jeep and see what their price is on the sensors too as I've had trouble with aftermarket stuff on some vehicles before

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post #18 of 27 Old 10-11-2013, 04:36 AM Thread Starter
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This is exactly what mine is doing to a T! So, I've also read that you can't just put a new sensor in it has to be calibrated from a stealership. What says JKO?

Copy and Paste from TSB

NUMBER: 08-023-07
GROUP: Electrical
DATE: October 06, 2007

SUBJECT:
Long Crank Time Due To Possible Contact Of Camshaft Sensor To Camshaft Gear

OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves the replacement of the engine camshaft sensor.

MODELS:
2007 (JK) Wrangler

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
The customer may experience one of the following conditions:

a). Long engine crank time.
b). Two engine start attempts prior to engine starting.
c). Due to the “TIP Start Feature” on automatic transmission equipped vehicles, once the ignition key / switch has been released from the “START” position, the starter may stay engaged for up to 10 seconds while the engine attempts to start.

The above conditions may be due to the position of the camshaft sensor to the camshaft gear. The sensor spacer gasket may have come loose during engine assembly and caused the camshaft sensor to be adjusted too close or in contact with the camshaft gear.

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post #19 of 27 Old 10-11-2013, 05:40 AM
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There is probably more to the TSB than that, either a retrofit sensor part# or some other procedure to ensure it doesn't contact.

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post #20 of 27 Old 10-11-2013, 05:59 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodysgotacuda View Post
There is probably more to the TSB than that, either a retrofit sensor part# or some other procedure to ensure it doesn't contact.
So I can get new sensor and put in myself right? No calibrating of the new sensor like the old thread I read said the dealer would have to do?
Thanks goody
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post #21 of 27 Old 10-11-2013, 06:10 AM
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AllData states "NOTE: The Cam/Crank Variation Relearn procedure must be performed anytime there has been a repair/replacement made to a powertrain system, for example: flywheel, valvetrain, camshaft and/or crankshaft sensors or components See: Engine Control Module\Testing and Inspection\Programming and Relearning"

So it looks like you may need to have it relearned or something. If it was my Jeep, I'd replace it myself, then if it didn't start...I'd call AAA to tow it for me to the dealership and just pay for the reflash/relearn

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post #22 of 27 Old 10-11-2013, 06:14 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks again Goody!
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post #23 of 27 Old 10-15-2013, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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Well the new camshaft position sensor didn't work! Getting it towed to the dealer to run diagnostics on it. I guess we'll see what it was and I'll update thread when I find out?
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post #24 of 27 Old 10-16-2013, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
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Update:
I pulled the fuel lines from tank and had someone try to crank the engine. No fuel came from lines? Is there anything that would stop the fuel pump from sending gas like a sensor or something? I'd like not to waist money on a new pump if that's not the problem.
Thanks
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post #25 of 27 Old 10-23-2013, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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Update:
My FIL fixed the jeep this morning! He found a corroded ground near the computer. Took ground off and cleaned the terminals and it's running fine now! I'm so glad to have my baby back!
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