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post #26 of 91 Old 09-04-2013, 01:55 PM
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tossed some MC replacements in this jeep for the GARBAGE failing TF bushings



the result was... nothing... everything was fine....





but you'd think from reading these threads that the jeep would have been AMAZING!, HANDLED LIKE A DREAM, HOLY SHIT IM ISOLATED FROM ZE BUMPZ!!!

but it wasn't. it was just normal.

31 jeeps in... still have issues
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post #27 of 91 Old 09-04-2013, 02:07 PM
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post #28 of 91 Old 09-04-2013, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Imped View Post
Up travel will be limited by the coils if they reach coil bind (full compression) first. And in regards to down travel, travel beyond the point at which the coil unseats is useless.

Think about what I'm saying--the coil is the ultimate determinant in travel. Obviously the bump stops will prevent the first instance of interference from occurring at the upward point of your suspension travel and that will be your upper constraint.....that's assuming one knows how and where to set their bump stops, given the proper convention. The shock or limit strap will reach full extension at the same time the coil does in a properly setup suspension.....again, that's assuming one knows how to set those up.

When I can't make those assumptions with 100% certainty, I start at the very basics--the coils. You've got to address suspension in an A-B-C manner before you can fully understand how it works as a system. A is your springs and that will determine B, your shock travel....and so on.

I said specific.

"Best settings" isn't specific, it's subjective. If you dig into the meat and potatoes of suspension, I think you'll find that those goals aren't as opposing as you seem to think.

For example, I built my suspension to provide 50/50 travel and, therefore, my ride height is about 5.5" above full bump. It's fairly low, with 20" under the frame rails on 37's. Due to it being low, it handles very well and isn't too hard to get into. The steering and link angles are very shallow, providing a great ride and no drama at all. Off the road, being low provides me stability but at the same time, I have plenty of clearance because everything is tucked.

Another example--I setup my suspension link mounts to provide me with a certain level of behavior in terms of anti-squat, anti-dive, roll center, etc. The squat and dive are slightly less than neutral and the roll center is high. Off the road, that provides predictability, stability and traction. On the road that provides great handling (minimized weight transfer) and cornering.

Another example--the Duroflex bushings. Durable, high NVH absorption, excellent misalignment capabilities. All of those are benefits on and off the road, none of them are disadvantages to either one.

I'm not seeing these mutually exclusive relationships you speak of.

Eh, tons of travel is overrated. I'd rather spend money on parts that don't give a crap about being misaligned (durability). 10" of travel will get you around in 99% of the spots in the country. Anything more than that is icing on the cake.

On that note, I don't use MC's shocks.....there's no point for me to. I have all the room in the world to move my shock towers up, making longer shock bodies a non-issue. With the JK tub being flush with the frame, that becomes an issue and that makes the MC shocks a real "game changer." Getting that kind of travel out of such a short body is awesome when it's your only viable option. But having components that can handle that kind of travel--their springs and their bushings--is just as important. And that still doesn't enter into the equation TRE limits, steering/frame constraints, and drive shaft bind.

That was a lengthy reply that may have entered the left field but sometimes that's necessary for me to make points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjcraig7 View Post
No. If you are talking about traditional JJ, which I think you are.
OK, I think we are in agreement, or at least sort of. I'm just not understanding some things. I still don't understand how you can say that coil spring compression is the limitation when you are never going to totally compress your springs. I understand that they can be the limitation for droop. As for articulation or misalignment I think we are kind of saying the same thing, just because the parts allow for the most articulation or misalignment it doesn't mean it's going to perform the best offroad.

I don't think I need to point out specifics, for the offroad/street comparison, because you already know, but I can pose a few extreme examples a few questions.

If you were to purpose build a JK for the street and one for offroad, they certainly would not look alike or handle the same even if you were only using bolt on suspension parts.

For your JK if you decided it was going to be used only offroad, would you change anything or is it the best it could be, now the same question for the street?

I bet if you were to add drop brackets and able to add stock bushing to your control arms your JK would handle and ride better on the street, but certainly not do as well offroad.

Whether you want to believe it or not there are compromises made to get the best of both worlds.

Now to make this even longer. What is it about the MetalCloak kit that makes it ride so much better than the RK kit. I find it hard to believe that the bushings make that big of a difference, so is it springs, shocks a combination of both or is it just hype?

What joints do articulate the most? I know it doesn't matter and that was the point I was making for cjcraig7, but now I want to know, because I was obviously under the misconception that JJs do.

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post #29 of 91 Old 09-04-2013, 07:18 PM
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I went with the MC game changer and am extremely pleased with it. It rides great around town and flexes like crazy. Im glad I spent the extra money.

Project Saskuatch is underway!! 2013 Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon
3.5" MC Game Changer, Genright Armour, Warn Winch, Fuel Wheels, 37" Nitto's, AEV hood, JW Speaker w/ Rigid Lights.....
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post #30 of 91 Old 09-04-2013, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2k2wranglerx View Post
tossed some MC replacements in this jeep for the GARBAGE failing TF bushings



the result was... nothing... everything was fine....





but you'd think from reading these threads that the jeep would have been AMAZING!, HANDLED LIKE A DREAM, HOLY SHIT IM ISOLATED FROM ZE BUMPZ!!!

but it wasn't. it was just normal.
Do you mind if i ask which components you replaced. Specifically did you put duroflex joints on both ends of your control arms. Thank you.

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post #31 of 91 Old 09-04-2013, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
Up travel will be limited by the coils if they reach coil bind (full compression) first. And in regards to down travel, travel beyond the point at which the coil unseats is useless.

Think about what I'm saying--the coil is the ultimate determinant in travel. Obviously the bump stops will prevent the first instance of interference from occurring at the upward point of your suspension travel and that will be your upper constraint.....that's assuming one knows how and where to set their bump stops, given the proper convention. The shock or limit strap will reach full extension at the same time the coil does in a properly setup suspension.....again, that's assuming one knows how to set those up.

When I can't make those assumptions with 100% certainty, I start at the very basics--the coils. You've got to address suspension in an A-B-C manner before you can fully understand how it works as a system. A is your springs and that will determine B, your shock travel....and so on.

I said specific.

"Best settings" isn't specific, it's subjective. If you dig into the meat and potatoes of suspension, I think you'll find that those goals aren't as opposing as you seem to think.

For example, I built my suspension to provide 50/50 travel and, therefore, my ride height is about 5.5" above full bump. It's fairly low, with 20" under the frame rails on 37's. Due to it being low, it handles very well and isn't too hard to get into. The steering and link angles are very shallow, providing a great ride and no drama at all. Off the road, being low provides me stability but at the same time, I have plenty of clearance because everything is tucked.

Another example--I setup my suspension link mounts to provide me with a certain level of behavior in terms of anti-squat, anti-dive, roll center, etc. The squat and dive are slightly less than neutral and the roll center is high. Off the road, that provides predictability, stability and traction. On the road that provides great handling (minimized weight transfer) and cornering.

Another example--the Duroflex bushings. Durable, high NVH absorption, excellent misalignment capabilities. All of those are benefits on and off the road, none of them are disadvantages to either one.

I'm not seeing these mutually exclusive relationships you speak of.

Eh, tons of travel is overrated. I'd rather spend money on parts that don't give a crap about being misaligned (durability). 10" of travel will get you around in 99% of the spots in the country. Anything more than that is icing on the cake.

On that note, I don't use MC's shocks.....there's no point for me to. I have all the room in the world to move my shock towers up, making longer shock bodies a non-issue. With the JK tub being flush with the frame, that becomes an issue and that makes the MC shocks a real "game changer." Getting that kind of travel out of such a short body is awesome when it's your only viable option. But having components that can handle that kind of travel--their springs and their bushings--is just as important. And that still doesn't enter into the equation TRE limits, steering/frame constraints, and drive shaft bind.

That was a lengthy reply that may have entered the left field but sometimes that's necessary for me to make points.
Wow Gents lots of replys......

My M-F use is 80mph on the freeway. Weekend wheeling, not crazy rock crawling just yet since I dont have Lockers or a PR44 yet.

Imped was dead on when it comes to physics..... Suspension travel is limited by Coil Bind, Shock length, swaybars and bumpstops.... and yes they all have to be planned together to work correctly to thier maximum.

Lets talk arms.... They both offer thier own unique flex design...., I do like that the MetalCloak Ones are rebuildable.... but again no warranty listed.
I call this a draw.....

Coils..... Both offer Progressive rate coils.......
I call this a draw.........

Overall Travel..... Unless you are using the 6pack shocks Id say its probly pretty close? Right?
Lets call it a draw....

Shocks..... If were not gonna be cheap here 5100's or OME's are a draw unless you want more..... which I do!!! Why go cheap when it takes multiple componets to make a suspension. So on to real shocks....

RK has some nice looking RRD shocks available with remote reservior's for about $1200. But if you notice they are 2.0", and if you read in the other shock thread that is currently up 2.5"s dont really fit in the rear with the RK mounts. Im not familiar with RRD so maybe someone can share thier experience if they got em?

MetalCloak 6packs. I like the idea.... Who actually has them and can share? Again.... warranty. I want shit it writting, word of mouth only travels so far. If this really is the game changer?? How bout put your name behind it and offer some type of warranty before i cut off my upper shock mounts? Thats my biggest hang up! You really want to charge $2000 for shocks? I can get some really nice Kings with remote reserviors for that much that are adjustable that have some type of warranty. Rancho will let you buy em and return them 90 days later. Secondly, all these shock companies have years of R&D with race proof to back it up.....

Sorry maybe Im ranting....

Gents, please share your experience with RRD or 6pack shocks! Thanks!
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post #32 of 91 Old 09-04-2013, 09:26 PM
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post #33 of 91 Old 09-04-2013, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCJKU View Post

Coils..... Both offer Progressive rate coils.......
I call this a draw.........
The Metalcloak springs are duel rate not progressive. Please take a look at the threads posted below you to because they go into excruciating detail about every decision and point about their system right down to the coating.
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post #34 of 91 Old 09-05-2013, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ASSFROW View Post
OK, I think we are in agreement, or at least sort of. I'm just not understanding some things. I still don't understand how you can say that coil spring compression is the limitation when you are never going to totally compress your springs.
It is the ultimate, theoretical limit. Do you see what I preach? I preach understanding the fundamentals. If you don't understand the very basic limits of travel and can recognize the boundaries, you cannot gain a full understanding of how a suspension system works. Again, A-B-C. And yes, it is possible to reach full coil bind and that's why one needs to understand the intricacies of setting up bump stops--so that the upper constraint is placed there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASSFROW View Post
I understand that they can be the limitation for droop. As for articulation or misalignment I think we are kind of saying the same thing, just because the parts allow for the most articulation or misalignment it doesn't mean it's going to perform the best offroad.
Once you reach the point of coils unseating (distance between coil buckets = free standing coil length), further travel is rendered useless. The shocks need to reach full extension at that point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASSFROW View Post
I don't think I need to point out specifics, for the offroad/street comparison, because you already know, but I can pose a few extreme examples a few questions.

If you were to purpose build a JK for the street and one for offroad, they certainly would not look alike or handle the same even if you were only using bolt on suspension parts.
I'm not a fan of 'purpose-built' Jeeps but that's just me. I didn't build mine to sit in my garage and get trailered to the park. I didn't build mine to break and require a trailer to get home. But I also didn't build it to be a street queen with clearance and durability compromises. It may seem unrealistic but I've built mine to have as few compromises as possible--good at it all. It doesn't look like any other TJ you'll see on the road, that's for sure. But it drives as well as my friend's mint, bone-stock 09 JK with a little extra road and wind noise.

My point: A 'hardcore' wheeler can drive very, very well. A street queen can drive like crap. It's all about the implemented methodology, quality of the parts, and quality of the setup (knowledge of the installer). Don't discount the idea until you actually see it in use. Your idea of mutual exclusivity is not correct in all cases.

I'm still waiting on specific, technical reasons as to WHY a purpose-built offroad-only JK will drive worse than a street queen. I don't think you'll find this easy to answer because the majority of the disparity between the two ideas is just in your head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASSFROW View Post
For your JK if you decided it was going to be used only offroad, would you change anything or is it the best it could be, now the same question for the street?
I wouldn't build a JK if you paid me....well, maybe.

In terms of my TJ, yes I would. I'm building those axles right now. It will gain even better brakes, better steering, more backspacing and more Ackermann angle, which will only benefit the on-road driving experience. But the axles are ultimately being built to provide more strength off the road. Hmmm......

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASSFROW View Post
I bet if you were to add drop brackets and able to add stock bushing to your control arms your JK would handle and ride better on the street, but certainly not do as well offroad.
In that particular situation, I'll give you the nod. But I'm certainly not one to buy into those silly things. There are more (and better) ways to skin that cat and there are no compromises involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASSFROW View Post
Whether you want to believe it or not there are compromises made to get the best of both worlds.
But there don't have to be. I've been proving that for a few years now and others have been doing it for longer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASSFROW View Post
Now to make this even longer. What is it about the MetalCloak kit that makes it ride so much better than the RK kit. I find it hard to believe that the bushings make that big of a difference, so is it springs, shocks a combination of both or is it just hype?
I don't have experience with their shocks or springs. But I have a good amount of experience with their bushings and I can tell you that they are not hype....and that's compared to the best standard 'spherical' joint on the market, the Currie JJ. I also have experience with RK's poly bushings they use at the end of some of their arms, along with their older joints. They were junk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASSFROW View Post
What joints do articulate the most? I know it doesn't matter and that was the point I was making for cjcraig7, but now I want to know, because I was obviously under the misconception that JJs do.
No idea and it doesn't matter. After dealing with most of the joints on the market, there are two that matter. The JJ and the Duroflex bushing. I don't give a crap about the rest and I've fixed enough rigs to be able to have that opinion.

Why doesn't it matter? Unless you're using a Clevite bushing at one end with the joint of your choice on the other end and are using 14"+ coilovers, you'll never approach the limits anyway. And if you're combining Clevite bushings with that much travel, you're doing it all wrong anyway. The last thing I care about when I look at joints is the misalignment amount. I didn't make the switch from JJ's to Duroflex bushings because of the little bit of extra misalignment they are capable of. I don't even remotely approach that difference being realized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCJKU View Post

Lets talk arms.... They both offer thier own unique flex design...., I do like that the MetalCloak Ones are rebuildable.... but again no warranty listed.
I call this a draw.....
If all you want to look at is the 'rebuildability', then they are a wash. Both of them can be easily rebuilt. What you are failing to look at are the compounds, durability (how often will they need to be rebuilt?) and how they function. If you would do that, you would almost undoubtedly choose the MC bushing.

As for the warranty, I assure you....it's a non-issue. MC is one of the most stand-up companies I've ever seen in terms of their CS and responsiveness. I had to use RK's CS years ago and while it wasn't bad, it wasn't close to the level of MC's. You're missing out on the criteria that will make the decision clear.

Last edited by Imped; 09-05-2013 at 05:07 AM.
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post #35 of 91 Old 09-05-2013, 05:30 AM
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I can only speak from personal experience with RK and tell you that I would not go down that road again.

RK joints do not hold up, mine needed replacement after 8k.

RRD shocks both leaked. Although the guys were nice enough to replace them, the new improved replacements are screwed as well - fairly quickly too.

I will say that I don't really give a shit about those that swear by RK, say their gear is bomb-proof, and want to lambaste my opinions but my real world experience falls way short of the hype.
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post #36 of 91 Old 09-05-2013, 08:52 AM Thread Starter
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Metalcloak offers a 1 year warranty FYI.
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post #37 of 91 Old 09-05-2013, 10:10 AM
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Metalcloak Warranty...

Just to clarify...

Below is our written warranty. Now, we've always believed that warranties are designed for one reason... to protect the company from the customer. Every warranty ever written ultimately has that goal. IMHO.

However, at Metalcloak, as has been mentioned, we focus on Customer Service first... providing FULLY TRANSFERABLE LIFETIME CUSTOMER SERVICE. Period.

-----------

Now, the legalese of the fairly standard industry Warranty as printed and shipped with every product...

Quote:
Metalcloak’s Commitment:

Our Commitment is Simple --- we take care of our customers. Period. Every customer is unique and every situation is just as unique. However, we will strive to find a solution that truly takes care of you, our customer. If we can’t do that, we have no reason to be in business.

Now for the fine print...

All Metalcloak products are warranted to be free of defects in material and workmanship for one year from the original purchase date. All products produced by Metalcloak are designed exclusively for off road applications and therefore do not have any warranty or guarantee of performance. No warranty or representation is made as to this products ability to protect the user from injury or death. The user assumes that risk. Because of the wide variety of applications of our products, the effectiveness, warranty and longevity of this equipment are directly related to the manner in which it is installed, used and/or maintained. The entire risk as to the quality and performance of these MetalCloak products is with the purchaser. Working on your vehicle can be a dangerous activity. If you are unsure of what you are doing, please leave mechanical or safety critical work to a skilled mechanic. We take no responsibility for how MetalCloak products are installed.

This warranty is non-transferable. MetalCloak’s obligation under this warranty is limited to the repair or replacement of the defective parts only; at MetalCloak’s discretion. Any costs associated with removal, installation, reinstallation, shipping charges, and incidental or consequential damages are excluded from this warranty. Additional exclusions include product finish, damage due to improperly installed products, damage due to abuse or neglect, products that have unauthorized modifications or alterations, products used in competition, damage due to accidents or other abnormal, excessive or improper use, bushings and other wear items.

"Defects in material and workmanship" for MetalCloak 6Pak™ shocks, Duroflex™ Joints and all other suspension components do not include dented cylinders or bent rods caused by impact or abuse. Shock absorbers are considered a wear item; thus diminished dampening resistance is considered normal wear and is therefore not warrantable.

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You'll love it, its almost like your in a luxuary car at first, but with the ability to climb over shit
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post #38 of 91 Old 09-05-2013, 10:20 AM
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However, at Metalcloak, as has been mentioned, we focus on Customer Service first... providing FULLY TRANSFERABLE LIFETIME CUSTOMER SERVICE. Period.

-----------

Now, the legalese of the fairly standard industry Warranty as printed and shipped with every product...


Now for the fine print...

All Metalcloak products are warranted to be free of defects in material and workmanship for one year from the original purchase date. All products produced by Metalcloak are designed exclusively for off road applications and therefore do not have any warranty or guarantee of performance. No warranty or representation is made as to this products ability to protect the user from injury or death. The user assumes that risk. Because of the wide variety of applications of our products, the effectiveness, warranty and longevity of this equipment are directly related to the manner in which it is installed, used and/or maintained. The entire risk as to the quality and performance of these MetalCloak products is with the purchaser. Working on your vehicle can be a dangerous activity. If you are unsure of what you are doing, please leave mechanical or safety critical work to a skilled mechanic. We take no responsibility for how MetalCloak products are installed.

This warranty is non-transferable. MetalCloak’s obligation under this warranty is limited to the repair or replacement of the defective parts only; at MetalCloak’s discretion. Any costs associated with removal, installation, reinstallation, shipping charges, and incidental or consequential damages are excluded from this warranty. Additional exclusions include product finish, damage due to improperly installed products, damage due to abuse or neglect, products that have unauthorized modifications or alterations, products used in competition, damage due to accidents or other abnormal, excessive or improper use, bushings and other wear items.

"Defects in material and workmanship" for MetalCloak 6Pak™ shocks, Duroflex™ Joints and all other suspension components do not include dented cylinders or bent rods caused by impact or abuse. Shock absorbers are considered a wear item; thus diminished dampening resistance is considered normal wear and is therefore not warrantable.
Ummm I see what you did there...


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post #39 of 91 Old 09-05-2013, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCJKU View Post
So I have decided I NEED 37's lol....

I have been debating back and forth between a lift from these 2 companies for awhile now and its been a tough decision so I am looking for some input from fellow JKU abusers.

I plan on running flat fenders so I am looking at the RK 3.5 Max Travel and the MetalCloak Game Changer. I decided to list the Pro's and Cons of what I have read. Feel free to add to the list....
So, just to add to your decision making process, depending on the aftermarket fenders you are getting, the Full Game Changer with 6Paks may not be the best option for you.

While the 6Paks are a great option, giving the most travel of any shock, they may be overkill for your build, meaning, with 37's and typical aftermarket fenders, you won't be able to take advantage of the travel offered by the 6Paks.

I would like to suggest the Game-Changer Lite which runs the Long-Travel OME Nitrocharger Sports. Everything about the kit is the same as the Full Gamechanger, with all the advantage of the Duroflex Control Arms, but without the added expense of the 6Paks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCJKU View Post
before i cut off my upper shock mounts?
Just to clarify, you are only trimming part of the front upper shock mount to make extra slop clearance for the 6Pak. No critical component is cut off so you can easily go back to any shock you want if you decide you don't like the 6Paks.

Here is our offer for every customer everywhere. Try it. If you don't like it we'll take it back. Period.

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post #40 of 91 Old 09-05-2013, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ASSFROW View Post
What joints do articulate the most? I know it doesn't matter and that was the point I was making for cjcraig7, but now I want to know, because I was obviously under the misconception that JJs do.
Yes it does.

You failed to make it because you derailed from a complete suspension system to talking about only joints.

The thread is about complete bolt-on suspension systems, thus partly, a discussion of the maximum capabilities of those listed, not what one person can get by on. It is a tough conversation for some people, that is why there appears to be continual derails into the benefits of joint replacement. It fucking really hurts given the history of this match up. Good tech though.
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post #41 of 91 Old 09-05-2013, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjcraig7 View Post
Yes it does.

You failed to make it because you derailed from a complete suspension system to talking about only joints.

The thread is about complete bolt-on suspension systems, thus partly, a discussion of the maximum capabilities of those listed, not what one person can get by on. It is a tough conversation for some people, that is why there appears to be continual derails into the benefits of joint replacement. It fucking really hurts given the history of this match up. Good tech though.
You made a blanket statement that is was the only thing that mattered and well, it isn't.

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post #42 of 91 Old 09-06-2013, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCJKU View Post
So I have decided I NEED 37's lol....

I have been debating back and forth between a lift from these 2 companies for awhile now and its been a tough decision so I am looking for some input from fellow JKU abusers.

I plan on running flat fenders so I am looking at the RK 3.5 Max Travel and the MetalCloak Game Changer. I decided to list the Pro's and Cons of what I have read. Feel free to add to the list....

RK
Pro's
Well known reputation for pretty solid Jeep Products
Solid Arms
Lifetime Warranty
Plenty of Trail Abuse found online in videos on youtube

Cons
The joints dont utilize rubber components to reduce vibration

Metalcloak
Pro's
Full Gamechanger offers ridiculous travel with the 6pack shocks
Arms utilize rubber bushings that reduce vibration

Cons
I dont see any warranty listed on their website
6 pack shocks haven't demonstrated longevity, again warranty?
On the pricey side at $4000

I open to all input or experiences? Maybe I missed something... Why is everything 4-5 weeks from delivery lol?
The 3.5" max travel kit is the most complete 3.5" mid arm kit we offer as far as components goes. We noticed your con being that we don't use rubber for vibration isolation. All of our mid arms have our monster flex bushings at the frame side on the lowers which is a PTMEG material and offers us the vibration isolation that we look to get out of out kits. Even our new Pro Series Krawler Joints have larger poly raceways then in our joints before offering more then 200% more vibration isolation out of the axle end of our lower control arms. We believe our products are well proven and our new ones are even better! Let us know if there is ever anything you would like more specification on! As far as shipping time like you mentioned we're not sure if 4-5 weeks was us specifically but we can assure you all JK products are only running at a 5-7 day lead time before shipping out. Obviously depending where you are in the country will affect the transit time but at most ups ground is 5 days.

RK

Last edited by Rock Krawler Suspension; 09-10-2013 at 09:25 AM.
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post #43 of 91 Old 09-06-2013, 08:19 AM
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I went with Metal Cloak arms, Synergy Springs, and Fox shocks. Those Metal Cloak arms made a huge difference in flex and ride quality. Best arms on the market in my opinion and I've run or ridden in JK's with Metal Cloak, Teraflex, RK, & Full Traction. I've run Synergy springs & fox shocks on a few JK's and really like the smooth ride from them. When combined all together it rides smoother then a couple long arm JK's I've ridden in. My JKU scored an 1100 on the RTI with no arm binding what so ever. So my vote would be Metal Cloak for sure.
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post #44 of 91 Old 09-06-2013, 10:16 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the warranty explanation gentlemen. Sounds like good positive feedback here.
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post #45 of 91 Old 08-09-2014, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by RiverCityOffroad View Post
I won't debate the two because someone always takes me wrong. I have driven Robbie's JKU that is mentioned above and it drives very nice. There are lots of folks out there who have gone to Metal Cloak and are very happy.

Rock Krawler has recently introduced a new Krawler Joint that has more vibration isolation built into it.

I have been running their control arms on my JKs for the last three years without any complaints about vibration, stiffness, ect. I have new Krawler Joints waiting to be installed on both of my current JKs so I can give accurate and honest feedback on the differences I see in the near future.

My 2012 JKUR is sitting on a 3.5 X-Factor with 37" MTZs and it rides down the road nicely. I have run it with Rock Krawler's Remote Ressy RRDs, Bilstein 5100s, and a set of Pro Comp Pro Runners. The RRDs ride very similar to Bilsteins until you crank up the juice or hit a nice dip/hole/ect in the road. That's where they shine. They also afford a little more "spirited" driving without the body roll that the softer Bilstein 5100s or Pro Runners allowed. For a good bang for the buck shock I would definitely look at 5100s with their coils. The Pro Runners rode nice, but their lengths are all wrong for the JK.

I drove it over 750 miles last Thursday and Friday at 75 - 80 MPH without any problems or complaints after the ride. It isn't as smooth as a sedan, but it rides similarly to the half ton trucks that I'm in often.

Here is a photo of the stance with stock flares. I need to get some more photos with the Poison Spyder flares that are on it now.



Hopefully this helps a little and gives you an idea of how the Jeep will look. I will take more photos this week and update it. The Jeep looks totally different now.

Marcus

Nice wheels, who makes them?

2014 JKUR Anvil--Rock Krawler 3.5 X Factor with Synergy TieRod/High Steer Flip Drag Link. 35" BFG KO2
2006 TJ Rubi Solar Yellow---Retired
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post #46 of 91 Old 08-09-2014, 08:07 PM
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Nice wheels, who makes them?
Thanks! They are made by Fuel and called the "Trophy". 17x8.5 with 4.5" back spacing. Let me know if you'd like a quote.

Marcus


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post #47 of 91 Old 08-09-2014, 09:10 PM
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jesus Christ... not this shit again.
AEV FTW!!!!!! LOL
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post #48 of 91 Old 08-09-2014, 10:29 PM
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O.k. this is not my impression all though I know who I would go with.

I have a few friends here. one has the EVO RK kit on thier JK the other has the full EVO coil over conversion triple rate kit, and another I"ve seen with the metalcloak kit. etc..

The first with the RK kit said to me personally that. His father got the Metalcloak kit and " out of the BOX it is the BEST kit out there and he wishes he would have went that route. " He is going with 1 ton axles soon but will keep his current suspension RK with EVO stuff. I mean why wouldn't someone keep what they already have?

I have another friend running the Metal Cloak suspension and loves it, never had a bad thing to say about it. Says ride is the smoothest he's had. I"ve been trying to find someone who has something negative to say about MC but I"ve yet to see or read anyone?

My next buddie that has coil overs says he wishes he wouldn't have spent the extra scratch on the coil overs as they " are not worth the extra cost for a rock crawler and to go regular shocks and coil springs for the cost. The price you spend on them will not give you the upgrade you think you will get out of them" I guess coil overs aren't the "heat" they say they are. and his rig is fully built EVO everything!!!! Basically coilovers are over rated for most people. I guess all the extra money doesn't pay out unless your pre-running or planning on hauling ass thru the desert? so Save your money folks the WOL Douche has everyone wishing for something they don't need.


So with that said these are direct quotes from locals here running their products. VEGAS is basically the central hub of all that a wheeler can want, expect, and ask for. so with that......

take it for what you want but these are direct quotes from locals here who run these products.


2014 JKU Rubicon, 2007 Superbee #692/1000, BMC Hooligan (my chopper yea it's a Rigid)
"There is no limit to the amount of good you can do if you don't care who gets the credit."
- Ronald Reagan 40th President of the United States (1981-1989)

Last edited by azoth99; 08-09-2014 at 10:36 PM.
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post #49 of 91 Old 08-10-2014, 11:49 PM
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Im sorry man but a company that puts out a cantilever setup i would question there products as a whole (EVO). Evo is over priced and well i think it has a lot to be desired.

But as far as RK and MC customer service of MC is great. I called to send back a joint to get a bigger one no questions asked. I payed for shipping there and they send the other ones to me for free. RK i have talked to them a lot and seem like great guys but i have not bought any of there products yet.

On there systems

Both have great systems but different approach to the plate. MC is what i will call the ultimate bolt on kit. But you must buy there fender or not run any at all to really get the benefits of there system (up travel). Whats great about there kit? For the bolt on guy, EVERYTHING like i said its well thought out kit that addresses the pitfalls of bolt on kits.

MC Shocks are the best for travel in coil spring suspension application.

MC Joints are a hybrid of a rod end and bushing. So the advantage is a flexible bushing, you get the best of both worlds. You get 34¸¸¸° degrees and vibration isolation in one package.

Arms is a big debate but this is what i have found. Tj's have short arms stock and you could buy mid and long are kits. Jk's come with mid arms stock, they did that to improve on and off road characteristics. JK's already have a mid arm setup. So upgrading joints and strength is a big plus. Plus with a suspension like the MC everything works to together in this mid arm bolt on package to yelled GREAT on and off road ability. There is nothing wrong with the way this kit performs and would be very happy with it. Some ppl feel its a lot for a "short arm" kit. But I think its spot on for what you are getting.

Lets talk about RK, they are a completely different animal. There about pouring there race experience into there kits and the beef parts show. I have friends that have the four links kits and 3link kits and coilover kits.

Arms are solid and beefy, i hear there new joints are good but I have not read much on them myself. Some of there kits have poly bushings on the frame side to help with vibration (better ride quality) because there joint dose not dampen like a MC joint. For some they really dont care I mean its a jeep right. They have bends for clearance which i really like. I am also in love with there 3link setup, it flex's very well depend on the setup.

RK kits are made to upgrade as you go. A friend had 4 link kit that was good then swapped to a 3link and the ride and flexed improved pretty good. then he put coilovers on the front and the ride and flex really improved.


The thing is you cant go wrong with ether. If you want a bolt on go MC and if you want no-bolt on go 3link. If you go coil spring go w/ MC.

This is what i am going to run

RK 3link front w/ MC joints
coilovers front

RK 3link Rear w/ MC joints
Coilovers rear

Best of all worlds

Hope this helps.

EDIT you can not put MC joints w/ threaded shank into a RK arm they have different thread pitches FYI

Last edited by pickpocket; 08-10-2014 at 11:56 PM.
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post #50 of 91 Old 08-11-2014, 03:05 AM
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I would think a solid more ridged joint would work out better in a 3 link setup. A JJ or RK's new joint.


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2007 JKR | PSC Big bore box | Rock Krawler 3.5" x-factor arms l SteerSmarts YETI track bar, tie rod, no drill flipped drag link, Griffin | Synergy frame brace | 37x12.5x17 Nitto RG's | Dana front DS | Fox IFP shocks | Artec front armor kit/Currie JJ's | Teraflex rear axle bracket | EVO Rockstars | Ridged D's, A pillar mounts | VKS sliders l Trek Armor seat covers | Superchips/Sprint booster | Savvy half doors w/ Bestop uppers
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