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post #1 of 16 Old 12-05-2019, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
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Paypal alternative?

Any alternative to PayPal for renewing my subscription?

PayPal screwed me out of $350 this year, and they are on my "will-not" list.

_
'76 CJ-7, '43 CJ-2a, '78 Bronco,'78 CJ-7, '75 CJ-5, '78 CJ-7, '80 CJ-7, '78 SJ, '79 SJ, '78 and a '76 FJ-40 , '90 XJ, '91 XJ, '86 CJ-7, '95 ZJ, '68 CJ-101 Commando, '00 TJ, '68 M-715, 2 '86 Military Blazers, '96 LR Discovery, '86 CJ-7, '91 YJ, '99 TJ, 07' JKU Rubi, 1988 YJ, 1973 Commando, 3 Diesel Excursions....
Now back to a 2013 JKU Rubicon with "stuff", planning 37's with minimal lift.

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post #2 of 16 Old 12-05-2019, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Guruman View Post
Any alternative to PayPal for renewing my subscription?

PayPal screwed me out of $350 this year, and they are on my "will-not" list.
They should be on your "will-not" list for many reasons, including a coordinated effort to censor and restrict individuals who do not fall in line with their political ideologies.

Are you looking to use Paypal to transfer cash between individuals or are you using it as a merchant services / payment acceptance platform?

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post #3 of 16 Old 12-05-2019, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Guruman View Post
Any alternative to PayPal for renewing my subscription?

PayPal screwed me out of $350 this year, and they are on my "will-not" list.
is it too personal to ask why or how that occured? Seriously wondering because lotsa folks tell m to not use PP.


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post #4 of 16 Old 12-05-2019, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
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The problem with PayPal is that you have no recourse if you are wronged. They are not regulated like a bank, and the user agreement gives them the right to do whatever they want with your money.

In my case, I went to pay a friend $350 for helping take care of our Montana property. I selected the wrong friend from the drop down list on the website, and sent it to another friend.

No big deal, I'll cancel the transaction... Nope PayPal wouldn't let me cancel it, said I'd have to get my friend to refund the money... no biggie, I contact my friend, and he goes to refund my money... except it's not there. Paypal skimmed it to settle a dispute between my friend and another Paypal user.

Now if it were a bank, and they accidentally deposited funds into an overdrawn account, they would simply reverse the transaction, and that account would go back to being overdrawn. In this case, my funds were going directly to cover Paypal's expenses in the dispute, they refused to reverse the transaction. I spent dozens of hours arguing with "support", escalating to "managers" that would never call back.

I even contacted my state's Attorney General. Paypal lied to the AG, and the AG dropped it.

The bottom line is that as a Paypal/eBay member since 1999, I was out $350. And they would rather screw over a nearly 20 year customer for a measly $350 rather than reverse the transaction, and let my friends balance remain negative pending the outcome of his dispute.

In my mind I look at it this way... Say I was walking down the street, and dropped a hundred dollar bill.... My buddy reaches down to get it for me when someone else comes along and snatches it away from him, claiming that he (not I) owes them a hundred bucks. Now, they are not entitled to my money. Just because my buddy had possession of it temporarily, by mistake, does not make it his, and if it's not his, Paypal has no claim to *MY* money.

I never got it back. And I've never done a penny's worth of business on eBay or used Paypal since.


Now with that all being said, as a long time member, I'm happy to renew my membership and continue to support JKO, but I won't be using Paypal to do so.

The old fart likes this.

_
'76 CJ-7, '43 CJ-2a, '78 Bronco,'78 CJ-7, '75 CJ-5, '78 CJ-7, '80 CJ-7, '78 SJ, '79 SJ, '78 and a '76 FJ-40 , '90 XJ, '91 XJ, '86 CJ-7, '95 ZJ, '68 CJ-101 Commando, '00 TJ, '68 M-715, 2 '86 Military Blazers, '96 LR Discovery, '86 CJ-7, '91 YJ, '99 TJ, 07' JKU Rubi, 1988 YJ, 1973 Commando, 3 Diesel Excursions....
Now back to a 2013 JKU Rubicon with "stuff", planning 37's with minimal lift.

I've tried them all... Jeeps are still the best. (0||||0)
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post #5 of 16 Old 12-06-2019, 04:57 AM
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Straight up e-transfer.
I go to my bank online acct., add new payee. Enter their name and email, bam! Send.

I am a troll. Do not take my advice. It isn't going to help.
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post #6 of 16 Old 12-06-2019, 06:59 AM
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@Guruman : You are highlighting an issue with those types of payment processors in that they are not beholden to traditional banking rules. This is why I will not use any of those types of payment processors.

It's unfortunate that PayPal is treating you like this. For your situation, the only suggestion I can make would be MoneyGram, Western Union, or the like. Doing a quick search I see even Walmart is even in the money transfer business. I have never personally used any of them, however they are an option for you to research.

What ever you choose, make sure to research it well for it's pitfalls. No service is without its pitfalls.

Good luck with what ever you choose.

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post #7 of 16 Old 12-06-2019, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruman View Post
The problem with PayPal is that you have no recourse if you are wronged. They are not regulated like a bank, and the user agreement gives them the right to do whatever they want with your money.

In my case, I went to pay a friend $350 for helping take care of our Montana property. I selected the wrong friend from the drop down list on the website, and sent it to another friend.

No big deal, I'll cancel the transaction... Nope PayPal wouldn't let me cancel it, said I'd have to get my friend to refund the money... no biggie, I contact my friend, and he goes to refund my money... except it's not there. Paypal skimmed it to settle a dispute between my friend and another Paypal user.

Now if it were a bank, and they accidentally deposited funds into an overdrawn account, they would simply reverse the transaction, and that account would go back to being overdrawn. In this case, my funds were going directly to cover Paypal's expenses in the dispute, they refused to reverse the transaction. I spent dozens of hours arguing with "support", escalating to "managers" that would never call back.

I even contacted my state's Attorney General. Paypal lied to the AG, and the AG dropped it.

The bottom line is that as a Paypal/eBay member since 1999, I was out $350. And they would rather screw over a nearly 20 year customer for a measly $350 rather than reverse the transaction, and let my friends balance remain negative pending the outcome of his dispute.

In my mind I look at it this way... Say I was walking down the street, and dropped a hundred dollar bill.... My buddy reaches down to get it for me when someone else comes along and snatches it away from him, claiming that he (not I) owes them a hundred bucks. Now, they are not entitled to my money. Just because my buddy had possession of it temporarily, by mistake, does not make it his, and if it's not his, Paypal has no claim to *MY* money.

I never got it back. And I've never done a penny's worth of business on eBay or used Paypal since.


Now with that all being said, as a long time member, I'm happy to renew my membership and continue to support JKO, but I won't be using Paypal to do so.


whoa.

"...and he goes to refund my money... except it's not there. Paypal skimmed it to settle a dispute between my friend and another Paypal user...."

Really? I immediately wonder if your friend didn't get notified as-to any funds deposited into the account reserve would go to take-care of the outstanding debt? It had to. I guess all that small print we dont read maybe contains pretty outrageous stuff? That is crooked if they didn't reveal that well prior-to this to the 'friend'.

bein' in any form of debt inevitably will screws all sorts of stff up. That sucks you had to be hurt because the guy shouldn't have been able to use the account or it should have been a flag to you that the person is in debt and it is a risky deposit.
Have you called PayPal or did I miss that?

They will decline, probably., It is , actually, your friends debt to you , now. He should send you a cashier's check or Western Union it ASAP.




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post #8 of 16 Old 12-06-2019, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j3ff3ry_j33p View Post
whoa.

"...and he goes to refund my money... except it's not there. Paypal skimmed it to settle a dispute between my friend and another Paypal user...."

Really? I immediately wonder if your friend didn't get notified as-to any funds deposited into the account reserve would go to take-care of the outstanding debt? It had to. I guess all that small print we dont read maybe contains pretty outrageous stuff? That is crooked if they didn't reveal that well prior-to this to the 'friend'.

bein' in any form of debt inevitably will screws all sorts of stff up. That sucks you had to be hurt because the guy shouldn't have been able to use the account or it should have been a flag to you that the person is in debt and it is a risky deposit.
Have you called PayPal or did I miss that?

They will decline, probably., It is , actually, your friends debt to you , now. He should send you a cashier's check or Western Union it ASAP.


You cannot really call Paypal. Go ahead, try it. You have to have their permission first. But, yes, I spoke on the phone with them many, many times. All they would ever say is that I needed to get my friend to refund the money, which he could not do, because the money was gone.

I could pressure my friend, but in his defense, he was scammed out of $1500 worth of vintage car parts by a guy on eBay who claimed they were misrepresented, and "returned" them, except what he returned was a box of rocks, keeping the parts, and Paypal refunded his money because he "returned" them. My friend had already transferred the money out of Paypal, so they dinged his bank account for the funds, which did not cover it at the time, leaving him with a negative Paypal balance. I'm fortunate enough to be able to absorb a $350 loss. My friend is less able to do so.

Here's the rub though. Since the payment was not meant for him, the money was NOT his to keep. If it was not his, then Paypal has ZERO rights to that money. Just like if someone were to mistakenly deposit a million dollars into your bank account... If you spent it, knowing that it was not yours, you could be charged with theft. Banks, REAL banks, are obligated to fix such errors. In fact Paypal's user agreement specifically calls out the right to correct errors, but evidently only when it's in their favor.

The bottom line is that neither I, nor my friend have the $350, Paypal kept it and refused to rectify the situation after a dozen phone calls, escalation to management 5 times, and a written letter from my state Attorney General's office.

The internet is filled with stories of Paypal's horrors much more nefarious than mine. Google "Paypal sucks" if you want to go down that rabbit hole. But let me serve as a warning, if you're doing business with Paypal, it's a matter of time before they disagree with you over some amount of money, and they will win. The user agreement guarantees them the right to do pretty much whatever they want. You can file a dispute, but if they decide against you, you are screwed.

_
'76 CJ-7, '43 CJ-2a, '78 Bronco,'78 CJ-7, '75 CJ-5, '78 CJ-7, '80 CJ-7, '78 SJ, '79 SJ, '78 and a '76 FJ-40 , '90 XJ, '91 XJ, '86 CJ-7, '95 ZJ, '68 CJ-101 Commando, '00 TJ, '68 M-715, 2 '86 Military Blazers, '96 LR Discovery, '86 CJ-7, '91 YJ, '99 TJ, 07' JKU Rubi, 1988 YJ, 1973 Commando, 3 Diesel Excursions....
Now back to a 2013 JKU Rubicon with "stuff", planning 37's with minimal lift.

I've tried them all... Jeeps are still the best. (0||||0)
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post #9 of 16 Old 12-06-2019, 12:22 PM
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post #10 of 16 Old 12-06-2019, 01:12 PM
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Cryptocurrency will set you free
How?

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y’aller quenchin' with beer
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post #11 of 16 Old 12-06-2019, 02:11 PM
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I have heard and read many times of the PP issues or incidents. That truly sucks.
.

I didnt ever have anyone as close as you @Guruman , to experience something like this so I am paying attn , now.

I basically use it for the forum and I think that is about it. I use mt payme when I sell parts.

Now, I am not so sure. This is good info. Is VenMo a viable alternative?




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post #12 of 16 Old 12-06-2019, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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Venmo is owned by Paypal...

_
'76 CJ-7, '43 CJ-2a, '78 Bronco,'78 CJ-7, '75 CJ-5, '78 CJ-7, '80 CJ-7, '78 SJ, '79 SJ, '78 and a '76 FJ-40 , '90 XJ, '91 XJ, '86 CJ-7, '95 ZJ, '68 CJ-101 Commando, '00 TJ, '68 M-715, 2 '86 Military Blazers, '96 LR Discovery, '86 CJ-7, '91 YJ, '99 TJ, 07' JKU Rubi, 1988 YJ, 1973 Commando, 3 Diesel Excursions....
Now back to a 2013 JKU Rubicon with "stuff", planning 37's with minimal lift.

I've tried them all... Jeeps are still the best. (0||||0)
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post #13 of 16 Old 12-06-2019, 03:48 PM
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Venmo is owned by Paypal...
well, then we are fubar'ed Mail a check or pay annually ?.


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Last edited by j3ff3ry_j33p; 12-06-2019 at 07:28 PM.
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post #14 of 16 Old 12-07-2019, 01:22 PM
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How?
Completely peer to peer without the middleman, zero chance of getting scammed, costs only a few cents.

Use the Ethereum or Bitcoin blockchain.
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post #15 of 16 Old 12-09-2019, 06:24 AM Thread Starter
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OK, my membership is expired.... any solution to this?

_
'76 CJ-7, '43 CJ-2a, '78 Bronco,'78 CJ-7, '75 CJ-5, '78 CJ-7, '80 CJ-7, '78 SJ, '79 SJ, '78 and a '76 FJ-40 , '90 XJ, '91 XJ, '86 CJ-7, '95 ZJ, '68 CJ-101 Commando, '00 TJ, '68 M-715, 2 '86 Military Blazers, '96 LR Discovery, '86 CJ-7, '91 YJ, '99 TJ, 07' JKU Rubi, 1988 YJ, 1973 Commando, 3 Diesel Excursions....
Now back to a 2013 JKU Rubicon with "stuff", planning 37's with minimal lift.

I've tried them all... Jeeps are still the best. (0||||0)
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post #16 of 16 Old 12-10-2019, 07:06 AM
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Hey all,

Thanks for sharing your stories about your woes with PayPal while working between person to person transactions; however, for us there is no competitive service that can handle the amount of transactions we need to process while still having terms and conditions to protect your information. The accountability is on PayPal to ensure these matters are processed appropriately, and allows us to continue to focus on the site functionality. We apologize if this is a deal breaker for you, but appreciate all of you who still wish to support us.

Let me know if I need to clarify this further.

-Gerrit
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