Linear vs. progressive springs - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
 
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post #1 of 24 Old 09-20-2012, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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Linear vs. progressive springs

I know the difference between linear and progressive springs: one has a set rate from rest to full compression, while the other has two rates: the first one is much lower and comprises 1/6 of the coil length and once that bottoms out the higher rate kicks in the rest of the way.

What I wanted to understand, however, is what benefit does a progressive rate spring give you aside from a longer stretched length so that the coil doesn't come unseated during full flex?

I am thinking about switching from my linear rough country springs to a similar lift height progressive spring set (favoring metal cloak at this point). What would be the differences in ride quality, sag and flex be?

Any input from experience is welcome, especially vendor input since you sell suspensions. Thanks!

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post #2 of 24 Old 09-20-2012, 05:39 PM
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ive noticed that my springs (2.5 progressive rk) have about 2-2.5" gap between coils vs rc that look like 1-1.5" between coils. that alone would allow for more compression under a really hard bottoming out.
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post #3 of 24 Old 09-20-2012, 06:15 PM
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I think the MetalCloak springs are "dual rate" springs. They are not the same as most other progressive rate springs. I can't tell you the differences/benefits between the 2 different types of springs.

Rob

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post #4 of 24 Old 09-20-2012, 06:38 PM
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There a some threads on the metalcloaks springs, like pages about them. I'm saving to get a set of 'em.

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post #5 of 24 Old 09-20-2012, 07:37 PM
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Pages 8-12 of this thread go into a lot of detail about the different types of coils
https://www.jkowners.com/forum/showth...al+cloak+build
Have to skip through some of the bs but there is a lot of good info in that thread.
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post #6 of 24 Old 09-20-2012, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
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I've since starting snooping around on other forums as well, and it appears that almost all "progressive rate" springs offered on JK's are actually dual-rate. True progressive rate springs, it seems, not only have varying coil spacings, but also varying diameters as the coil winds down. Fairly complex and expensive stuff. I'll let the vendors confirm that.

Just judging from what I've read so far, here and on Jeep-Forum, Wrangler-Forum and Pirate4x4, there really shouldn't be a difference between linear and dual-rate/progressive springs aside from popping off their perches if flexed too far (linears will, dual rates won't)

But I wonder how a dual-rate helps with sag? Does the higher rate portion of the spring resist heavy loads better?

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post #7 of 24 Old 09-20-2012, 09:07 PM
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Having run 3 different sets of linear springs from 3 different manufacturers (factory,OME,and Teraflex) and then swapped them out for Synergy/Poly progressive springs...it's like night an day. The ride quality of the poly springs is great, the harder I push the suspension the smoother they seem to get. And more importantly they aren't sagging like my old springs did. So it was the right move for me.

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post #8 of 24 Old 09-21-2012, 03:09 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlvrJK View Post
Having run 3 different sets of linear springs from 3 different manufacturers (factory,OME,and Teraflex) and then swapped them out for Synergy/Poly progressive springs...it's like night an day. The ride quality of the poly springs is great, the harder I push the suspension the smoother they seem to get. And more importantly they aren't sagging like my old springs did. So it was the right move for me.
Cool. Thanks for that input. Wasn't sure if I should take the leap or not but that may have sold me. You're the 2nd guy who endorsed poly springs. My buddy did too.

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post #9 of 24 Old 09-21-2012, 11:24 AM
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My only experience with progressive spings were on my harleys and they make a world of difference....all good.I used them in the front end and used progressive rate shocks on the rear.It was well worth it from a 2 wheel point of view for sure.

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post #10 of 24 Old 09-21-2012, 01:20 PM
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I know that the AEV springs are triple rate. I am not sure how the ride quality varies between a dual and triple rate spring, but I do like prograssive springs much more than the linear springs I have run before.

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post #11 of 24 Old 09-21-2012, 03:08 PM
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post #12 of 24 Old 11-06-2012, 04:00 AM
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I switched out my Tf springs for RK and it made a big difference in ride.
RK uses a front progressive/rear linear.

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post #13 of 24 Old 11-06-2012, 05:22 AM
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i'm a big fan of progressive springs. BUT, i will say, the Offroad evolution 4" springs ride AWESOME and they're linear.

keep in mind on a progressive spring you're almost always riding on one spring rate.

31 jeeps in... still have issues
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post #14 of 24 Old 11-06-2012, 06:17 AM
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Last time we had mine off the jeep we were looking at them beside a friend's teraflex springs. We counted coils and realized that my progressives (3.5 AEV) had 5 more coils. When fully compressed, more coils = less up travel. Just something to consider when fine tuning bump stops and stuff.
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post #15 of 24 Old 11-06-2012, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgall View Post
Last time we had mine off the jeep we were looking at them beside a friend's teraflex springs. We counted coils and realized that my progressives (3.5 AEV) had 5 more coils. When fully compressed, more coils = less up travel. Just something to consider when fine tuning bump stops and stuff.
Not always true. The thickness of the coil itself plays a role.
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post #16 of 24 Old 11-06-2012, 10:59 PM
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Spring rate and type of spring (linear, progressive, dual rate) is a very complex topic that can be rather difficult to explain. Like a few have said here there are pages and pages where it's been discussed on here. Many factors determine the type of spring ie: coil rate, coil diameter, distance between coils, type of steel, diameter of the steel used to make the springs, temper, etc. progressive rate coils are usually ones which offer a varying spring RATE and usually achieve this by winding coils that are close together on one end and progressively get farther apart. Progressive rate sprigs constantly change spring rate as they compress. This is because they are designed so that the spring compresses all of the coils move the same distance, thus causing the coils that are closest together to collapse on to each other and as they do that they almost become solid and are no longer actively part of the spring and thus making the spring stiffer. Dual rate springs are technically another type of progressive rate spring except that instead of having a continually changing rate they have two distinctive rates usually accomplished by part of the spring being wound with coils closer together (the same distance apart for this rate) and another part with coils that are farther apart (the same distance apart for all the coils in this section). This was a pretty brief explanation and much more info is out there on this, but hopefully this will give you an idea of the concept.

Benefits to a progressive or dual rate spring would be softer and better ride quality at normal ride height, and better suspension response offroad. They tend to flex a little better, and function in somewhat of a similar method to a dual rate coilover. They are often used in offroad race applications as well as it helps absorb hard hits to the suspension when going fast offroad, because as the axles travel upward, the rate increases, thus dampening the bumps (good shocks and air bumps should be used if you intend to do this however as they also play a role)

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Last edited by Topgun863; 11-06-2012 at 11:04 PM.
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post #17 of 24 Old 11-07-2012, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALASHA View Post
Not always true. The thickness of the coil itself plays a role.
You are absolutely correct. The springs we compared (AEV and Teraflex) were close enough in thickness for it to be statistically insiginificant. Hence my comment that it is something to consider when setting up bumpstops. Now I am curious as to spring thickness of the various springs. My guess is that they are mostly going to be pretty close in material thickness.
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post #18 of 24 Old 11-07-2012, 06:40 AM
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Progressive rate springs give a better ride by allowing the softer rate absorb bump at high speed. This allows you to ride offroad at higher speeds without being beat to death. They just did a great info session on it on extreme 4x4 like 2 weeks ago. They did everything from breaking down regular coil springs to calculating spring rate for coil overs.


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post #19 of 24 Old 11-07-2012, 11:05 AM
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The thread in this link gives full explanations of all 3 types of springs. Pages 8-9 have the spring info.

https://www.jkowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71064

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Quote:
Originally Posted by -SLADE- View Post
Metalcloak claims to have the highest clearance flat fenders and their Duroflex joints appear to bridge the gap between stock clevite bushings and re-buildable joints making them a great option for daily drivers. Metalcloak's dual rate coils actually backup the available travel in their suspension instead of just making claims of "flex" and "max travel" only to provide short coils with little travel like some have done.
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post #20 of 24 Old 11-08-2012, 10:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloaked willys View Post
The thread in this link gives full explanations of all 3 types of springs. Pages 8-9 have the spring info.

https://www.jkowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71064
That was an excellent write up by the MC guy! Thanks for the reference! That was the answer I needed.

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post #21 of 24 Old 11-22-2012, 09:45 PM
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Hello, I am Aleks.
I just got Jeep Wrangler Sahara 2013, already start back pain. Could you please email me a link you did order Synergy Poly Progressive Springs,
Thank You
Need smooth ride asap.
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post #22 of 24 Old 11-22-2012, 09:47 PM
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Progressive springs

Hello, I am Aleks.
I just got Jeep Wrangler Sahara 2013, already start back pain. Could you please email me a link you did order Synergy Poly Progressive Springs,
Thank You
Need smooth ride asap.
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post #23 of 24 Old 11-22-2012, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nkahovka View Post
Hello, I am Aleks.
I just got Jeep Wrangler Sahara 2013, already start back pain. Could you please email me a link you did order Synergy Poly Progressive Springs,
Thank You
Need smooth ride asap.
Hey Aleks.

Your jeep is stock I assume ?
Can't get much more cushy than the stock setup.

Have you looked at changing the shocks ?

2007 JKR | PSC Big bore box | Rock Krawler 3.5" x-factor arms l SteerSmarts YETI track bar, tie rod, no drill flipped drag link, Griffin | Synergy frame brace | 37x12.5x17 Nitto RG's | Dana front DS | Fox IFP shocks | Artec front armor kit/Currie JJ's | Teraflex rear axle bracket | EVO Rockstars | Ridged D's, A pillar mounts | VKS sliders l Trek Armor seat covers | Superchips/Sprint booster | Savvy half doors w/ Bestop uppers
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post #24 of 24 Old 11-24-2012, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nkahovka View Post
Hello, I am Aleks.
I just got Jeep Wrangler Sahara 2013, already start back pain. Could you please email me a link you did order Synergy Poly Progressive Springs,
Thank You
Need smooth ride asap.
Drop some air pressure.

The sidewall has the max rating, that's not what the optimal ratting is.

I find most places will blow your tires up to 45lbs of pressure or more.

Try high 20's.

Or do the chalk test to to see what the optimal tire pressure for your jeep/ tire is.
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