Time for RCV's! - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 47 Old 08-21-2012, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
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Time for RCV's!

Oops... so long Dana 30, won't miss ya. RCV's are on their way...



At least I got a sweet shot out of it.

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post #2 of 47 Old 08-21-2012, 09:43 AM
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How does your ring and pinion feel about this?

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post #3 of 47 Old 08-23-2012, 06:40 AM Thread Starter
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I haven't opened it up yet, currently running G2 5.13's with an aussie locker. Cheaped out on the locker because I knew I would break at some point, but we'll see how everything looks once the RCV's arrive and it's all opened up. The splines on the end of the axle were just slightly twisted when I pulled the shaft out, so I don't know if the teeth on the ring bent with it or stayed straight causing it. If I need a new set so be it, at least now I'll feel more comfortable getting a better locker.

What was weird about the whole thing, my bumper actually contributed to the break ... the passenger wheel was so far forward (RK long arm) that it was hitting the bumper. Nothing is going to bend those fab fours, so it was a case of irresistible force meeting immovable object with the axles being the weak point.

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post #4 of 47 Old 08-23-2012, 07:06 AM
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I think what he means is that your R&P is fine right now, but once you throw the RCV's in and wheel it the next weak link will be your R&P. And myself and many others would much rather break an axle than a R&P. At least you can drive home on a broken axle.

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post #5 of 47 Old 08-24-2012, 08:21 AM
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my bumper actually contributed to the break ... the passenger wheel was so far forward (RK long arm) that it was hitting the bumper.
It must have been into the bumper really hard to cause an issue and that needs fixing, either through longer bump stops, adjusting the control arms, or trimming the bumper. Otherwise next time it will be R&P that gives way.


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post #6 of 47 Old 08-24-2012, 01:28 PM
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I read a lot about this R&P thing associated with RCV's...and I have to disagree. I run a set in mu JKU R and feel it is solid peice of min. Keep in mind I don't wheel with the skinny pedal through the floor...I prefer more techinical wheeling and being selective of lines and making the suspension work.

I sleeved, gusseted, and RCV'd my front axle with longevity and strength in mind. Has anyone ever ripped their R&P out using these? I've seen lots of talk about it but no pics displayed. Honestly, upgraded shafts are a solid investment for any off road rig. Not to mention the no BS warranty RCV offers. If and when they offer a rear kit....I'll probably shoot for them as well.


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post #7 of 47 Old 08-24-2012, 01:33 PM
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I read a lot about this R&P thing associated with RCV's...and I have to disagree. I run a set in mu JKU R and feel it is solid peice of min. Keep in mind I don't wheel with the skinny pedal through the floor...I prefer more techinical wheeling and being selective of lines and making the suspension work.

I sleeved, gusseted, and RCV'd my front axle with longevity and strength in mind. Has anyone ever ripped their R&P out using these? I've seen lots of talk about it but no pics displayed. Honestly, upgraded shafts are a solid investment for any off road rig. Not to mention the no BS warranty RCV offers. If and when they offer a rear kit....I'll probably shoot for them as well.

It's not only about RCVs, it's about Dana 30s with small gears (higher numerically). We replaced a D30 ring and pinion [5.13] that stripped with stock axles ant 37s. Usually the stock axle breaks before the gears strip, increasing the axle strength moves the "fuse" on the differential to the r&p. As for right now Marcus [RiverCity Off Road] currently has a stripped front Dana 30 set of gears.

D30 5.13


Difference in D30 and D44 gears are substantial.


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post #8 of 47 Old 08-24-2012, 01:38 PM
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That's kind of my point....

This D30 R&P (in a numerically higher arrangement) is actually weaker. This type of failure really can't be blamed on an aftermarket upgraded axle shaft. Running that high of a gear in a D30..(IMHO)...you should expect to have R&P failure...

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post #9 of 47 Old 08-24-2012, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by xxj View Post
That's kind of my point....

This D30 R&P (in a numerically higher arrangement) is actually weaker. This type of failure really can't be blamed on an aftermarket upgraded axle shaft. Running that high of a gear in a D30..(IMHO)...you should expect to have R&P failure...
My point is: The situation is usually the stock D30 axle fails before a "weaker" higher gear ratio does on an axle. Usually. Replacing the axles [the fuse] with stronger ones moves that point of failure up the R&P.

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post #10 of 47 Old 08-24-2012, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodysgotacuda View Post
It's not only about RCVs, it's about Dana 30s with small gears (higher numerically).
X2 Obviously driving style goes a long way to preventing this issue, but the 30 gears are so much smaller than the 44s. Add in the limited tooth engagement of 5.13s, throw in some wheel spin with sudden traction, and it's not difficult to see how things go pop!

An axle shaft UJ will not always act like a "fuse", especially when the wheels are straight, so you can't count on it saving your R&P.


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post #11 of 47 Old 08-24-2012, 02:24 PM
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. If and when they offer a rear kit....I'll probably shoot for them as well.

They offer rears now.

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post #12 of 47 Old 08-24-2012, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodysgotacuda View Post

Difference in D30 and D44 gears are substantial.

I think that even w/ the D44 gear set, you move the weak link to the R&P w/ the RCV's. I've been back and forth on this issue and feel like w/ my 5.38 gears they would definitely be the first to go if I ran the RCV shaft. I'm leaning toward regular chromo's in the front and then carrying spares.

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post #13 of 47 Old 08-24-2012, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodysgotacuda View Post
Replacing the axles [the fuse] with stronger ones moves that point of failure up the R&P.
Running that small of a R & P is asking for failure with that much rotating mass. Any upgraded axle with a U-joint would strip out a ring gear....just unsure why RCV is consistently thrown under the bus...

Then the legitimate argument is why is there a market for aftermarket shafts to begin with?

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post #14 of 47 Old 08-24-2012, 02:41 PM
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Running that small of a R & P is asking for failure with that much rotating mass. Any upgraded axle with a U-joint would strip out a ring gear....just unsure why RCV is consistently thrown under the bus...

Then the legitimate argument is why is there a market for aftermarket shafts to begin with?
RCV is not thrown under the bus for this, at least what I've been reading, it's been a concern for every D30 owner.

The problem with the Dana 30s is that it is substantially weaker at that point. Where-as a Dana 44 with upgraded shafts does have the ring and pinion under stress...the amount of force it takes to overcome that is pretty substantial compared to the geared D30s.

Something more mild like a 4.10 D30 with aftermarket shafts would be a pretty reasonable diff. IMO.



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Originally Posted by TCdawg View Post
I think that even w/ the D44 gear set, you move the weak link to the R&P w/ the RCV's. I've been back and forth on this issue and feel like w/ my 5.38 gears they would definitely be the first to go if I ran the RCV shaft. I'm leaning toward regular chromo's in the front and then carrying spares.
I'd like RCVs but I'm still running stock shafts. I have spares, but haven't had a reason to change them yet.

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post #15 of 47 Old 08-24-2012, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by svtmaniac View Post
I think what he means is that your R&P is fine right now, but once you throw the RCV's in and wheel it the next weak link will be your R&P. And myself and many others would much rather break an axle than a R&P. At least you can drive home on a broken axle.
I thought you could drive home w a busted ring and pinion as long as you pulled everything, no?

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post #16 of 47 Old 08-24-2012, 03:00 PM
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I thought you could drive home w a busted ring and pinion as long as you pulled everything, no?
Yes you can. Up front at least, you don't need stub shafts in a JK.

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post #17 of 47 Old 08-24-2012, 03:08 PM
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Wow!!! No one has said it yet.

Go D60 its the only way....




On a U-joint axle the week point is almost always going to be the joint; even with chromo and even on the D30.

The only time it moves to the RP is when you a running a straight line, then your ring and pinion is compromised and the only way to save it is to keep your foot out of it.

The advantage of the RCV over the u-joint is when you are in turn. It doesn't take much power to snap a joint, even a chromo, when you are on the stops. If not the joint the yoke will fail.

The other advantage is the RCV turns smooth and doesn't jurk when at an angle, this allows better power transfer and may save the RP over a super 30 chromo joint axle.

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post #18 of 47 Old 08-28-2012, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
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RCV's are in, pretty happy with it so far ... no more wheel binding in the turns (lunchbox locker up front). R&P and locker were fine.

As for future breaks, I'm running a Cherokee front driveshaft not the JK one... my weak point is that old school driveshaft U-joint, that should give out long before the ring & pinion. And I'm fine with that, cheap and easy fix.
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post #19 of 47 Old 08-28-2012, 11:11 AM
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post #20 of 47 Old 04-10-2013, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Goodysgotacuda View Post
Yes you can. Up front at least, you don't need stub shafts in a JK.
You need stub shafts. Some one in the area here found out the hard way. Took out both shafts and bolted up with out stub shaft on bearing unit. A bearing unit ended up coming apart on the highway and he wrote off his TJ. There is relatively no difference between bearing units on a TJ vs. a JK. The stub shaft and required torque of 120 pounds is important to bearing life and to prevent failure.

If you have to do take out your shafts then put in at least the stubs. I just bought rcv's. I plan on having the stubs in the vehicle just in case everyone is correct that I will blow the r&p next. I am hoping the r&p is still stronger in a d44. But if not I am prepared to get home safely.

Has anyone seen a d30 fail more than once with r&p while running rcv's or any other upgraded shft?

Does anyone know of a d44 r&p failing when running rcv's or any other upgraded shaft?

This is an old tread but it is relevant. If your about to post to rag on me about how old this thread is then. I know how to search and find the info that I need. Lol

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post #21 of 47 Old 04-10-2013, 03:40 AM
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On a TJ, you certainly cant.

On a JK? you absolutely can.

You do know they make 2wd JK front axles right? No shafts or ring/pinion. They seem
To drive just fine down the road

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post #22 of 47 Old 04-10-2013, 03:47 AM
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You need stub shafts. Some one in the area here found out the hard way. Took out both shafts and bolted up with out stub shaft on bearing unit. A bearing unit ended up coming apart on the highway and he wrote off his TJ. There is relatively no difference between bearing units on a TJ vs. a JK. The stub shaft and required torque of 120 pounds is important to bearing life and to prevent failure.

If you have to do take out your shafts then put in at least the stubs. I just bought rcv's. I plan on having the stubs in the vehicle just in case everyone is correct that I will blow the r&p next. I am hoping the r&p is still stronger in a d44. But if not I am prepared to get home safely.

Has anyone seen a d30 fail more than once with r&p while running rcv's or any other upgraded shft?

Does anyone know of a d44 r&p failing when running rcv's or any other upgraded shaft?

Comparing a TJ unit bearing and a JK unit bearing is not a valid comparison, they are not the same part; nor are they the same design.

On a JK, which is what we're discussing here, does not need a stub shaft in the front hub bearing to drive down the road.

And no on the D44 R&P failing, I recall Dynatrac saying they only found one failed JK D44 r&p when doing their research before building their D44/D60 hybrid axle.

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post #23 of 47 Old 04-10-2013, 04:17 AM
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Make sure your bump stops are set to prevent the wheels from turning more than 45 degrees with your new RCVs. Turning past that point stresses the cage and will cause premature wear/failure of the CV joint.
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post #24 of 47 Old 04-10-2013, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlynch2 View Post
On a TJ, you certainly cant.

On a JK? you absolutely can.

You do know they make 2wd JK front axles right? No shafts or ring/pinion. They seem
To drive just fine down the road
True. I've seen it with my own eyes.

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post #25 of 47 Old 04-10-2013, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodysgotacuda View Post
Comparing a TJ unit bearing and a JK unit bearing is not a valid comparison, they are not the same part; nor are they the same design.

On a JK, which is what we're discussing here, does not need a stub shaft in the front hub bearing to drive down the road.

And no on the D44 R&P failing, I recall Dynatrac saying they only found one failed JK D44 r&p when doing their research before building their D44/D60 hybrid axle.
One failed R&P for D44s with RCV's?

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