Bruiser... the perfect CARB state Jeep - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 02:10 AM Thread Starter
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Bruiser... the perfect CARB state Jeep

Bruiser Jeep conversions are the perfect CARB state Jeep ... especially for California. Possible 0 emissions! Bio-feul capable! Great mileage! Fewer trail hazards! 350k to 500k engine life! ... ... ...

Please explain a legitimate reason why any air quality conscious state could possibly deny this conversion... Please offer something besides original model year matching bologna... which we all know is total crap.

I would love to build the first one of these to be registered in California!

If you've done the Bruiser Jeep conversion please post pics. If you've run vegetable oil or bio-fuel please tell us how it's doing.


Bruiser link >>> http://www.dieselbruiser.com/2012/01...-rock-bruiser/



Please post pics!


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post #2 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 04:57 AM
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Hmmm it says it is a cummins 4bt.... Isnt that the same that Jeff's Jeep Yard in Tampa Florida is using? Definitely would like to see more!


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post #3 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 06:49 AM
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Just because you can run on veggie oil or bio diesel does not mean that everyone who owns one will actually run on it.

The 4BT isnt exactly the newest diesel out there and I think the Bruiser conversion used an older version of it (someone correct me on this if I am mistaken) so just because it is a diesel doesnt mean it is nearly as eco friendly as some of these new diesels out there.

Furthermore, Emissions requirements are so stringent on diesels today that the emissions systems are over the top i.e. urea injection etc... which the Bruiser kit doesnt have.

With all that said, I think CARB is a little too tree hugger for me but you did ask why the conversion isnt CARB approvable.

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Originally Posted by JKUnlimitedSport_2010 View Post
Hmmm it says it is a cummins 4bt.... Isnt that the same that Jeff's Jeep Yard in Tampa Florida is using?
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Jeff's Jeep Yard is the Bruiser Conversion.
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post #4 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALASHA View Post

Jeff's Jeep Yard is the Bruiser Conversion.

Oh well that makes sense!!! haha

-Marc
2010 JKU -- 3.5" RE Lift -- EVO LCAs -- ARTEC Truss and TB mount -- 17" Procomp 7069 -- 37" Maxxis Treps -- Heated Trucklite Headlights -- Synergy Drag flip -- Synergy TR -- Synergy bj's-- EVO 1/4 Pounder -- EVO Tire Carrier -- 4 gal rotopax -- TF Third Row -- China AEV Snorkel

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post #5 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 06:58 AM
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-Marc
2010 JKU -- 3.5" RE Lift -- EVO LCAs -- ARTEC Truss and TB mount -- 17" Procomp 7069 -- 37" Maxxis Treps -- Heated Trucklite Headlights -- Synergy Drag flip -- Synergy TR -- Synergy bj's-- EVO 1/4 Pounder -- EVO Tire Carrier -- 4 gal rotopax -- TF Third Row -- China AEV Snorkel

Coming up:
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14 Bolt rear ARB w/ 5.38
EVO Long Arm
40/42 MTR's
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post #6 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 07:00 AM
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I looked at this and almost pulled the trigger but after further research i decided not to do it because it would never pass emission in md, va, and dc. Also, the cost wasn't there for the conversion either, considering its an old engine cummions no longer produces.
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post #7 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 07:02 AM
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that motor looks brand new!

-Marc
2010 JKU -- 3.5" RE Lift -- EVO LCAs -- ARTEC Truss and TB mount -- 17" Procomp 7069 -- 37" Maxxis Treps -- Heated Trucklite Headlights -- Synergy Drag flip -- Synergy TR -- Synergy bj's-- EVO 1/4 Pounder -- EVO Tire Carrier -- 4 gal rotopax -- TF Third Row -- China AEV Snorkel

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post #8 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 08:41 AM Thread Starter
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I don't know about the used motor bit? I'll have to ask about that.

I would be interested to see the emissions test results for one of these running on everyday diesel.

As far as registering in the carb states then that would exclude about half the HEMI conversions out there.

This is what gets me... It doesn't matter if a vehicle conversion or mod produces improved mileage, emissions, safety & performence its just a flat out rejection.

Many of us in here remember what it was like driving 55 mph everywhere we traveled... what a pain in the ass that was. Thankfully we are no longer subjected to those rules. So things can change, all it takes is people supporting a viable argument. If Bruiser is pushing for carb approval and gets stonewalled as I'm sure they will then I think a national petition opposing carb states model year matching regulations which have no bearing on emissions would be worthwhile. Probably take 144 attorney's and an act of God just like everything else these days though. Fortunately I've got friends & family in Oregon & Reno so I can retreat from all this oppression occasionally.

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post #9 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 08:49 AM
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That's a River Raider/JJY collabo. Nothing new, just a turn-key build offered by these two companies.

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OKAY FUCKMOUTH.
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post #10 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
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Understood... I realize its not a new thing. I think Bruiser & River Raider have done a lot to improve the conversion.

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post #11 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 09:02 AM
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i think diesel is the way to go!!!

-Marc
2010 JKU -- 3.5" RE Lift -- EVO LCAs -- ARTEC Truss and TB mount -- 17" Procomp 7069 -- 37" Maxxis Treps -- Heated Trucklite Headlights -- Synergy Drag flip -- Synergy TR -- Synergy bj's-- EVO 1/4 Pounder -- EVO Tire Carrier -- 4 gal rotopax -- TF Third Row -- China AEV Snorkel

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post #12 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
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Understood... I realize its not a new thing. I think Bruiser & River Raider have done a lot to improve the conversion.

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Its American innovation like this that is hampered by government regulation... and that is extremely damaging to the entire country. Thankfully the majority of States choose not to adopt carb regs... God forbid they ever do. I hope they remain smart enough to look down on oppressive regulatory states.


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post #13 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezfriday View Post
Its American innovation like this that is hampered by government regulation... and that is extremely damaging to the entire country. Thankfully the majority of States choose not to adopt carb regs... God forbid they ever do. I hope they remain smart enough to look down on oppressive regulatory states.


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I wouldnt consider this innovation. Its an old motor that weighs 750 pounds. There are tons of swaps out there with this motor (www.4btswaps.com).

Innovation in my mind are these new diesels that are smaller, lighter, more efficient and produce alot more power than the 4BT (check out the new BMW diesels in the 3 series as example)

Sorry but innovative is not something I would associate with this particular swap. Let the begin.
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post #14 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 09:48 AM Thread Starter
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I wouldnt consider this innovation. Its an old motor that weighs 750 pounds. There are tons of swaps out there with this motor (www.4btswaps.com).

Innovation in my mind are these new diesels that are smaller, lighter, more efficient and produce alot more power than the 4BT (check out the new BMW diesels in the 3 series as example)

Sorry but innovative is not something I would associate with this particular swap. Let the begin.
Either way new or old its an improvement over the 3.8's mileage and power wise. Besides if Gramp's old 4bt will run 350k to 500k miles, then I'm hanging with Grandpa...

New is not always better. As a matter of fact new can be a whole lot worse. The built up 4bt is just one proven building block that I'm sure will lead to other suitable conversions... freedoms permitting that is.

I'm all for seeing new diesel conversions ... but then again... that wouldn't be allowed and we would be right back here again...

Right? Or Wrong?

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post #15 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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Gotta be some peeps out there with some Bruiser pics?

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post #16 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 01:59 PM
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It will never pass new CARB standards. Thats why Jeep shit-canned the idea. Thats why they had to shit-can the venerable 4.0 too.
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post #17 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 03:33 PM Thread Starter
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Still would like to see how well a Bruiser conversion would do on a smog test. We get all this second hand "won't work" ... "won't pass" ... "can't do that" ... Lets see some real results! I'm not one to to be satisfied with second hand information.

If I had a Bruiser I would go have it smog'd just to see how well it does.

Would sure like to hear from peeps with a Bruiser.


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post #18 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezfriday View Post
Still would like to see how well a Bruiser conversion would do on a smog test. We get all this second hand "won't work" ... "won't pass" ... "can't do that" ... Lets see some real results! I'm not one to to be satisfied with second hand information.

If I had a Bruiser I would go have it smog'd just to see how well it does.

Would sure like to hear from peeps with a Bruiser.
Go buy an old bread truck and have it SMOG tested - same result.
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post #19 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezfriday View Post
Either way new or old its an improvement over the 3.8's mileage and power wise. Besides if Gramp's old 4bt will run 350k to 500k miles, then I'm hanging with Grandpa...

New is not always better. As a matter of fact new can be a whole lot worse. The built up 4bt is just one proven building block that I'm sure will lead to other suitable conversions... freedoms permitting that is.

I'm all for seeing new diesel conversions ... but then again... that wouldn't be allowed and we would be right back here again...

Right? Or Wrong?

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So your saying newer more efficient diesels will not get 350k - 500k miles? I know plenty new generation diesels over 200k miles and still running strong. When I looked into this when Jeff first announced it, I was impressed but when we started talking about cost I got sticker shocked! I just can't justify spending that much money on a conversion that can't pass emission and when I can stick a new nemi for considerably less. Back in 07 I talked to the guys at Burnsville and I believe Burnsville stuck a 3.0 crd in a jk once but they never made it available becaus e of cost.
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post #20 of 43 Old 02-01-2012, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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And still only sarcasm without results... piss & moan ... piss & moan ...

So your suggesting the 4bt was built before smog testing.

OK

Forest Grumpy ... "Life is like a box of Dark chocolates" ... You never know what your going to get ... but when you do your not going to like it anyway... good for you...

It's no wonder we aren't allowed to modify shit anymore... nobody cares about real results only negative speculations and outright bullshit. Same kind of attitude those writing the smog rules have I'm sure.

Good or bad ... right or wrong ... I'm really hoping SOMEBODY with a "new" Bruiser chimes in with a dyno & smog test.

C'mon Jeff ... stepped up to the plate for Bruiser here ... offer some input. If you're pushing for smog approval you must have done some testing! Your rig looks badass! So ... can it pass the sniff part of the test? Screw visual ... just actual emissions.

Results count ... BS is in one ear and out the other ...


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post #21 of 43 Old 02-02-2012, 06:41 AM
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So your suggesting the 4bt was built before smog testing.
No but it hasnt kept up with the times. CARB has really cracked down on diesels forcing alot of companies to reconsider adding diesel options because of the added costs required to meet the new reqs.

The 3.9L 4BT that is used with this swap is essentially the old 5.9 6BT minus two cyclinders.

When Dodge/Cummins moved to the new 6.7, the 4BT got upgraded to 4.5L (if memory serves). The market for the 6.7 is much bigger so the company can justify the cost of meeting CARB reqs. The 4BT isnt in the same market and doesnt have the same CARB investment into it.
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post #22 of 43 Old 02-02-2012, 07:36 AM Thread Starter
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blah de blah blah ...

let's see some results and if the 4bt can't get it done then we look at a new diesel that can pass the emissions output portion of the test. I can't believe the all the old "bread tucks" can't pass smog. I know the semi rigs are adding the necessary components to pass smog so why can't the same be done with the 4bt?

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post #23 of 43 Old 02-02-2012, 08:05 AM Thread Starter
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And for the record... I could care less if the motor came from an old poop pumper truck. Its an engine... a means of propulsion ... nothing more nothing less. Labeling it a bread truck motor as if to suggest it's a piece of crap idea is just plain ridiculous. So all you haters out there can just go take a bite out of a giant poop sandwich! :finger:

Except for Dink ... I sort of like arguing with you...

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post #24 of 43 Old 02-02-2012, 08:12 AM
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Labeling it a bread truck motor as if to suggest it's a piece of crap idea is just plain ridiculous. So all you haters out there can just go take a bite out of a giant poop sandwich! :finger:
Labeling it a bread truck because that is predominately where the 4BT was used.

You apparently dont really care what people are saying because you dream of this being legal.

Lets ignore the "has to be a newer engine and same manufacturor" rules for a second which would stop this entire hypothetical situation to begin with and theorize:

Can you get a 4BT to meet the emissions standards - maybe but you would have to have a metric shit ton of emission components: urea injection, numerious particulate filters etc... essentially a small OEM company would have to invest almost as much as the large manufactorors are choosing not to invest because the business case isnt there.
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post #25 of 43 Old 02-02-2012, 08:29 AM
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How about a TDI conversion more modern,fuel effecient and lighter 330lbs!

http://www.hpamotorsports.com/tdiconversions.htm

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