ESP preventing wheel spin in mud conditions?? - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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ESP preventing wheel spin in mud conditions??

Hey guys, I bought my wife a 2012 JK sport with auto, 3:73. At 79 miles it was offroad and having fun, 2200 miles on her now. For now I am stock 18's with spidertrax spacers and stock tires. (that suck offroad)

Anyway, I live on a green belt and was wheeling in the backyard with a buddy and his Toyota pick up. He got himself buried in a pond so I hooked up a recovery strap to pull him out. Under a very thin layer of grass was the slipperiest dark clay I have ever seen. As soon as the tires spun, you were sitting in a cupped out hole with no forward movement, and the tires were plugged solid!! I unhooked myself, and knew wheel speed was the only thing that would clean out the tread and help get me unstuck.

Here is the problem I encountered. I was in 4 low which is supposed to remove traction control etc, but after a few full pulls..... I was just about out and the engine or trans stopped pulling RPM and required me to reverse and take another run at it?? This interruption of power was annoying and made it tough to maintain the forward momentum that I had achieved.

Was this the ESP, the TC or did the computer sense trans slip and started to implement some type of torque management?

Any ideas?
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post #2 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 09:32 AM
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turn your esp off and STOMP on it!!! thats what i do!

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post #3 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 10:12 AM
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No reason for a non Rubion to NOT be in 4low when off road. ESP is off in low and it's much easier on the trans, that is what it's there for.


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post #4 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 10:12 AM
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yeah but then you have to worry about speed and high rpm in 4 low correct?

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post #5 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 10:39 AM
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There is a mod to completely disable esp and abs. Its a blue and pink wire under the dash. Basically clip it and put a switch inline. Search the write up dpt. You will have no problem spinning in any gear after that, but you obviously loose all traction controlling aid so be forwarned it is not always the most useful way to wheel.


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post #6 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKUnlimitedSport_2010 View Post
yeah but then you have to worry about speed and high rpm in 4 low correct?
In a 2.72:1 case? Not until 25-30mph imo, I'd imagine if you are hitting mud that fast...you arent worried about a whole lot.

Here is how I see it. Many, MANY people over use 4-hi. 99.999% of them are automatic owners. Since you get very little feedback from the load on the transmission. Not going like you want? Give it more throttle. Being a manual owner you have to slip that clutch if you want it to go. Making you very aware of how your driveline is taking it. Personally, I don't do shit in 4-hi besides main trail roads (to allow for the sway bar to be disconnected) or drive on poor road conditions. I use 4-low, I've yet to come across a mud hole where 4th gear with a 4:1 case couldn't handle it.

Just my 2cents. The 2.72:1 case will take a good amount more speed than a 4:1 will without complaining.

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post #7 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curbsjeep View Post
There is a mod to completely disable esp and abs. Its a blue and pink wire under the dash. Basically clip it and put a switch inline. Search the write up dpt. You will have no problem spinning in any gear after that, but you obviously loose all traction controlling aid so be forwarned it is not always the most useful way to wheel.


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There is also a procedure in the owners manual to do that without cutting anything.

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post #8 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 11:49 AM
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The guy said he was in 4-low. This should have automatically disabled the traction control. There is obviously a problem here.. and I think that's what he's asking about.

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post #9 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 11:58 AM Thread Starter
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As WXman noted... I was indeed in 4 low. Stuck in slippery, tire packing clay and needing to clean out tread to get a bite and move forward.

I was surprised to have any ESP limit me in 4 low as I believe it to be disabled.

Thanks
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post #10 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WXman View Post
The guy said he was in 4-low. This should have automatically disabled the traction control. There is obviously a problem here.. and I think that's what he's asking about.
I definitely overlooked that, I just assumed since he mentioned ESP. Me being a retard.

Anyway, there should be no lack of power or computer prevented wheel spin in 4-low. Unless that's some 2012 BS that they added in. If it was me I'd put both axles on jackstands and let the wheels spin, there should be no hesitation. The ESP may be using the BLD in 4-low (never messed with it), but that shouldn't really hang you up at all.

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post #11 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 12:14 PM
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auto or manuel? if auto were you in "D" or "1st" or "2nd". if you were in "D" it might have been trying to shift into a higher gear so you were losing your momentum.

next time trying putting it in 4lo. and "2nd" thats what i have the best luck with in the mud.

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post #12 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodysgotacuda View Post
There is also a procedure in the owners manual to do that without cutting anything.
Yes however its a ridiculous procedure. Flipping a switch is easier.
Even in 4lo the esp light is on, however the system is not fully off.


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post #13 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leman View Post
auto or manuel? if auto were you in "D" or "1st" or "2nd". if you were in "D" it might have been trying to shift into a higher gear so you were losing your momentum.

next time trying putting it in 4lo. and "2nd" thats what i have the best luck with in the mud.
Exactly what I was going to say....if you were going into too high of a gear it could cause you to lose power...we are talking about the 3.8L here.

Are you sure your diffs weren't bottoming out keeping you from moving??

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post #14 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 02:17 PM
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In 4lo on my 07 it says esp off but for it to be fully off i still have to hold the button 7 seconds. Then a message comes up on dash.
It is not off unless it says off on the dash where the mileage is.

But not sure how to do that on a 12.


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post #15 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Scooter Scott.. its a 2012 with 3.6.... No power loss.

I think because it was in 4 low and I had just dumped it into D, it may have shifted 1st-2nd and into third on the slippery clay and passed the 40mph that re-activates the ESC automatically. These things make good power, and I had my boot in it!!

I dont plan on mudding that often, but having the need for wheel speed and a system that does not allow it is a pain in the butt.

Guess I better get some tires that dont require that much wheel speed
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post #16 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curbsjeep View Post
Yes however its a ridiculous procedure. Flipping a switch is easier.
Even in 4lo the esp light is on, however the system is not fully off.


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That's why mine stays off. It's unpredictable crap when lifted. I can spin all day in 4-low with no sort of interference..as it should be.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck714 View Post

Guess I better get some tires that dont require that much wheel speed
Yes, 40mph is pretty ridiculous imo. Just about anything can make it through a mud hole if you hit it fast enough

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post #17 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 05:46 PM
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I dunno, I'm kinda in the same boat. I can be in 4-lo with the rear locker on, odometer things shows esp-off, and I can't drift a turn in the sand. I know its not a HP issue cause my old 94 yota with 57 HP could do it.

The jeep stil is doing some sort of traction control junk that i don't appreciate.
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post #18 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 06:08 PM
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First I'd scan your ECM for stored DTC's such as the infamous "torque denied". Then do the steering wheel dance to completely disable ESP and see if it still happens. If disabling the ESP fixes the issue you can decide whether or not to do the switch.


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post #19 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodysgotacuda View Post
That's why mine stays off. It's unpredictable crap when lifted. I can spin all day in 4-low with no sort of interference..as it should be.




Yes, 40mph is pretty ridiculous imo. Just about anything can make it through a mud hole if you hit it fast enough
Just to be clear... I did not hit anything at 40 mph.. I was creeping at 1-2 mph in clay with tire speed hitting 40mph...
I was stuck and going nowhere without spinning the tires hard to clean them out..
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post #20 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 07:33 PM
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Were you aired down at all? Tires clean out better when aired down, too, because of the expansion and contraction of the tread voids.

And just my 2 cents, but mashing the gas doesn't always work, either. You have to modulate the throttle a little to allow the tires to "hook up". Also, a little back and forth with the steering wheel helps in mud, too, by allowing the front tires to hunt for new traction... just don't steer too far while you're giving it hell or you'll start hopping the front end and destroy your axle U-joints.

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post #21 of 28 Old 01-30-2012, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck714 View Post
Just to be clear... I did not hit anything at 40 mph.. I was creeping at 1-2 mph in clay with tire speed hitting 40mph...
I was stuck and going nowhere without spinning the tires hard to clean them out..
Thats a good way to break something.


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post #22 of 28 Old 01-31-2012, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck714 View Post
Just to be clear... I did not hit anything at 40 mph.. I was creeping at 1-2 mph in clay with tire speed hitting 40mph...
I was stuck and going nowhere without spinning the tires hard to clean them out..
That's an excellent way to break something actually....

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post #23 of 28 Old 01-31-2012, 06:42 AM
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For the record: On my 2011, I disabled the TCS using the procedure listed in the owner's manual. It's really not hard at all. Takes 15 seconds to do it.

Anyway, after I disabled it... I had TWO lights constantly on my dash, and it DINGED at me everytime the vehicle came to a stop. An initial ding upon startup would be OK, but constant dinging and lights the entire time I'm driving the Jeep was unacceptable. So I turned TCS back on again.

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post #24 of 28 Old 01-31-2012, 06:54 AM
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I don't think the steering wheel dance works on the 2012's. Well at least it doesn't on mine.
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post #25 of 28 Old 12-05-2012, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xmikedentx View Post
I dunno, I'm kinda in the same boat. I can be in 4-lo with the rear locker on, odometer things shows esp-off, and....
The jeep stil is doing some sort of traction control junk that i don't appreciate.
Amen-

I have had this multiple times in our '08 Rubi in low range. I was hill climbing & not going terribly fast. The fawking ESP backs off the throttle. It has gotten to the point where I'll just hold the throttle to the floor & pray it gets enough momentum or whatever it takes not to trigger the ESP to kick in.

Thanks for this thread-- gonna look into that over ride switch. I love the ESP most of the time. It has saved my ass on wet roads more than once. However, it will be great to do some unbridled drifting or hill attacks at the flick of a switch.

-Tall Peter

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