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post #1 of 35 Old 10-10-2011, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
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Thank You 89 Octane

If you get your panties in a bunch about MPG threads - then just move along now. I am just passing this info along for others interested in the cost of a JK as a daily driver.

I have over 3000 miles on my Jeep and have used approximately 165 gallons of 87 Octane fuel(mostly Marathon) over 20 fuel stops.

Tonight I filled up with 89 Octane and increased my MPG by roughly 14% - from 19.7 to 22.4. This was calculated driving the exact same 120 mile round trip drive, at the same time of day, filling up at the same station, same pump, approximately same weather conditions.
Since new my Jeep has averaged 18.6 MPG - with the lowest MPG at 17.32 and the highest (previous) MPG at 19.7 - the trip the previous night I am comparing against.
I did drive easy, but by no means strictly for MPG. However, the specific drive was very advantageous for higher fuel economy in regard to speed.

As an aside - the computer calculated MPG number was dead on with my manual calculation tonight - the computer is normally 1.5-2 MPG higher than the actual number. This makes me wonder if my Jeep has an issue burning 87 Octane fuel.

Anyway - if you like data - enjoy
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post #2 of 35 Old 10-10-2011, 09:28 PM
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thats pretty good...are you on stock tires?


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post #3 of 35 Old 10-10-2011, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by folkxrock View Post
If you get your panties in a bunch about MPG threads - then just move along now. I am just passing this info along for others interested in the cost of a JK as a daily driver.

I have over 3000 miles on my Jeep and have used approximately 165 gallons of 87 Octane fuel(mostly Marathon) over 20 fuel stops.

Tonight I filled up with 89 Octane and increased my MPG by roughly 14% - from 19.7 to 22.4. This was calculated driving the exact same 120 mile round trip drive, at the same time of day, filling up at the same station, same pump, approximately same weather conditions.
Since new my Jeep has averaged 18.6 MPG - with the lowest MPG at 17.32 and the highest (previous) MPG at 19.7 - the trip the previous night I am comparing against.
I did drive easy, but by no means strictly for MPG. However, the specific drive was very advantageous for higher fuel economy in regard to speed.

As an aside - the computer calculated MPG number was dead on with my manual calculation tonight - the computer is normally 1.5-2 MPG higher than the actual number. This makes me wonder if my Jeep has an issue burning 87 Octane fuel.

Anyway - if you like data - enjoy
Let us know how it is at the end of the next 3,000 miles.
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post #4 of 35 Old 10-10-2011, 10:54 PM
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Not gonna get any panties bunched up (well...not mine at least)...

But..

The whole gas thing is honestly very confusing if you really look at it.

As an example....

1. Higher octane gas is higher in density...so good right? More bang for the buck...err...unless you are in a higher altitude...in which case you need a lower density to compensate for the thinner air.....hmm...so air density matters.

2. Ethenol and blends. I seem to remember a number around 80 (to lazy to look it up so whatever)...80ish different blends and formulations of gas in the U.S.....how can it be that they would all produce the same results/performance? Idk.

3. The engine...yours is still a bit "young" and subject to change...older engines can have carbon buildup that changes the compression ratio of the engine and as a result can benifit from a higher octane....but when do those trigger points happen? When is an engine truly broken in? When is it "old"? Was the guy that built it shooting jack black as he put in parts and what affect will that have on the numbers?

4. The gas station. How do you know that the gas your buying meets the stated octane? There was an undercover study on this....Fk don't ask me who, I just know I watched it on tv so it must be true...probably 20/20 or something similar...they went around buying and testing gas....guess what...it didn't always meet the stated octane rating.

5. And if 4 is true that means knock sensors would kick in and adjust the engine resulting in lower performance....BTW...does the jk have I knock sensor? I have no idea.

6. The gov says there is zero benifit to running a higher octane gas unless the engine was
designed for it...ie high compression.

But...

7. See 1 through 5 and mix in driver reports like the OP which can be found again and against and again....

8. Eight was gonna be about real world testing and crap like tail winds, tire pressure, air temp, road conditions, tilt of the earth, global warming, and general attitude in regards to test variables but fk it I really don't feel like opening that bag.

So uhhh yeah....confusing to say the least.

Bottom line? I'm posting cause I'm bored. Also...Congrats on the increase! I would simply suggest that given all of the well thought out points above that other drivers may not experience the same results. I'm not suggesting that you are incorrect...I'm simply suggesting that given the variables each and every one of us will have to figure out what works best for us given our specific jeep, driving habits, environment, and gas blend.

Good luck!
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post #5 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 04:33 AM
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That's pretty cool. Heading to Indiana this weekend - may try 89 to see what kind of increase I get. I just wish I could find a place that doesn't have ethanol added.
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post #6 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 05:35 AM
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We stopped buying off brand gas and have consistently picked up 1.5-2mpg on average. Only chevron, bp, shell etc.

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post #7 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 06:08 AM
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I check mine about every other month and it's the same -14.5. It is what it is.

I laugh when I hear non-technical economist types talk about wasting money on higher octane gas even in cars that call for it.

The main principal about higher octane gas and performance is that it burns slower.

87 Octane - burns fast. Imagine the pistion coming to the top of the stroke and being hit with a sledge hammer to push it back down. Kind of hard on the engine after a while.

93 Octane - burns slower. Imaging the piston coming to the top of the stroke and being forced down during most of the downward stroke.

Since today's engines are managed by computers and to prevent knocking that lower octance gas causes, the timing is retarded which robs power from the engine.


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post #8 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nootherride View Post
thats pretty good...are you on stock tires?
The Jeep is totally stock right now. I went all out on my TJ and ended up selling it because 12-13 MPG was just wasting cash for a daily driver. I am really fighting the upgrade bug with the JK so I repeat the same cycle.
I loved the TJ, but it was useless to have a vehicle that I wanted to drive, but didn't because I am too cheap to waste money on gas. I can live with 19+ MPG.
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post #9 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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Let us know how it is at the end of the next 3,000 miles.
Will do - I use GasCubby on my phone to track my fuel usage. I figure watching MPG is the fastest way to identify if you have a problem developing.
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post #10 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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You are 100% correct about the variables - so I can't put a lot of faith in one tank of gas. However, the increase was significant enough that I will spend the extra money on 89 Octane until the data show otherwise.

In reference to your point number 4 - my best friend worked at a pipeline depot in college and he was responsible for mixing the additives in the fuel (yes, all the brands in the region came from the same pipe and barrel - just different additives). My friend is one of the most responsible people I know, he is now an engineer, etc. Mistakes were made - so your point is very valid - with fuel what you are getting is at best a crap shoot.
The guy that work the job after my friend got the Diesel and Gas "button" mixed up once an created a nice "blend" fuel. I think they reprocessed most of that fuel - and by reprocessed I mean diluted a bunch of it (after they pull the majority).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC71 View Post
Not gonna get any panties bunched up (well...not mine at least)...

But..

The whole gas thing is honestly very confusing if you really look at it.

As an example....

1. Higher octane gas is higher in density...so good right? More bang for the buck...err...unless you are in a higher altitude...in which case you need a lower density to compensate for the thinner air.....hmm...so air density matters.

2. Ethenol and blends. I seem to remember a number around 80 (to lazy to look it up so whatever)...80ish different blends and formulations of gas in the U.S.....how can it be that they would all produce the same results/performance? Idk.

3. The engine...yours is still a bit "young" and subject to change...older engines can have carbon buildup that changes the compression ratio of the engine and as a result can benifit from a higher octane....but when do those trigger points happen? When is an engine truly broken in? When is it "old"? Was the guy that built it shooting jack black as he put in parts and what affect will that have on the numbers?

4. The gas station. How do you know that the gas your buying meets the stated octane? There was an undercover study on this....Fk don't ask me who, I just know I watched it on tv so it must be true...probably 20/20 or something similar...they went around buying and testing gas....guess what...it didn't always meet the stated octane rating.

5. And if 4 is true that means knock sensors would kick in and adjust the engine resulting in lower performance....BTW...does the jk have I knock sensor? I have no idea.

6. The gov says there is zero benifit to running a higher octane gas unless the engine was
designed for it...ie high compression.

But...

7. See 1 through 5 and mix in driver reports like the OP which can be found again and against and again....

8. Eight was gonna be about real world testing and crap like tail winds, tire pressure, air temp, road conditions, tilt of the earth, global warming, and general attitude in regards to test variables but fk it I really don't feel like opening that bag.

So uhhh yeah....confusing to say the least.

Bottom line? I'm posting cause I'm bored. Also...Congrats on the increase! I would simply suggest that given all of the well thought out points above that other drivers may not experience the same results. I'm not suggesting that you are incorrect...I'm simply suggesting that given the variables each and every one of us will have to figure out what works best for us given our specific jeep, driving habits, environment, and gas blend.

Good luck!
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post #11 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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I have to admit the only reason I tried 89 was because the price difference right now is $0.05 - so for the $0.90 difference in the fill up cost, I decide it was a better gamble than a scratch off lottery ticket - haha.
If I was not so cheap, I would try 93 in the Jeep.



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Originally Posted by BigMike View Post
I check mine about every other month and it's the same -14.5. It is what it is.

I laugh when I hear non-technical economist types talk about wasting money on higher octane gas even in cars that call for it.

The main principal about higher octane gas and performance is that it burns slower.

87 Octane - burns fast. Imagine the pistion coming to the top of the stroke and being hit with a sledge hammer to push it back down. Kind of hard on the engine after a while.

93 Octane - burns slower. Imaging the piston coming to the top of the stroke and being forced down during most of the downward stroke.

Since today's engines are managed by computers and to prevent knocking that lower octance gas causes, the timing is retarded which robs power from the engine.
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post #12 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 10:22 AM
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They don't even sell 89 where I live, and for what it's worth, my wife gets like 20 in her 2011 on 87. She drives like a grand ma.
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post #13 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 10:26 AM
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I just pulled 13.5 in mine on 87 for what reason I have no idea. It's the first time I've gone below 15.5 so I'm willing to try that 89 octane and see what it does on my next tank.

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post #14 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 10:33 AM
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I just pulled 13.5 in mine on 87 for what reason I have no idea. It's the first time I've gone below 15.5 so I'm willing to try that 89 octane and see what it does on my next tank.
You guys already on ethanol blend down there? We lost about that much when they changed over to 10% here three+ years ago.

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For my money, the most notable part of this thread is all the fallout from bsack's fortune cookie factory explosion.
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post #15 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 10:49 AM
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i am going to try this bad boy out....

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post #16 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 11:18 AM
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i am going to try this bad boy out....
How? Your's is in the shop getting 500 dollar fog lights right now, Just mess'n w/you. By the way - each time I read one of your responses/threads, I actually HEAR a cow bell and in the background i hear someone yelling..."more cow bell...we need more cow bell"!
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post #17 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 11:27 AM
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i got the fever... and the only prescription... is more cowbell! and once i pay my hefty repair bill at the shop i am then going to have to make sure my gas lasts longer to ensure i dont go broke! haha

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post #18 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 01:00 PM
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Ethanol content

One of our local motorcycle dealers in New Braunfels.Tx. went and bought a gallon of gas at random.They had it tested and it was 17% ethanol.I know ethanol is not as efficent as gas so the ethanol content is a big factor in MPG.Don't believe what the pump says"up to 10% ethanol" it does vary and so will your mileage.
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One of our local motorcycle dealers in New Braunfels.Tx. went and bought a gallon of gas at random.They had it tested and it was 17% ethanol.I know ethanol is not as efficent as gas so the ethanol content is a big factor in MPG.Don't believe what the pump says"up to 10% ethanol" it does vary and so will your mileage.
Yep. We got direct injection BMWs in all the time running like shit. Tested the fuel and ended up sending most on their way. Highest I saw was 18%.

Yes if you thought "10%" ethyl sucks and a bump to "15%" ethyl will suck. Don't be surprised when 1/5th of your tank is crap for "fuel"


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post #20 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 01:20 PM
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how low should you or do you take your tank down to? i ran mine dry once or twice... not like to where the jeep stopped running but passed the "lo fuel"

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post #21 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 01:34 PM
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I drive the same route to and from work, 1120 miles a month. I use 87 octane and I get about 15 MPG (dash and calculated ) with the mix of city/hwy I drive. I usually get just over 200 miles until the amber light comes on.

I have a 3.5" lift, no rake, and 35" BFG KM2s. I have a winch, steel bumpers front and back and full skid plates. I'd love strip it down one day to see how much that weight affects MPG.

The biggest boost to my MPG was removing my Gobi rack.

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post #22 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 02:52 PM
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That's pretty cool. Heading to Indiana this weekend - may try 89 to see what kind of increase I get. I just wish I could find a place that doesn't have ethanol added.
Hey Hoosier, check out (pure-gas.org) this site list all ethanol free stations in the U.S and canada.

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post #23 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 03:12 PM
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Hey Hoosier, check out (pure-gas.org) this site list all ethanol free stations in the U.S and canada.
Very cool. Thanks Taco08jk. What's strange is, Atlanta and Marietta are pretty big city's...not a single station listed. Found several on my route to IN though.
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post #24 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 03:20 PM
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My 07 with 35K knocks like hell with 87. I switched to 89 and it left. I might have increased mph a bit but I'll pay extra to not have the knock.

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post #25 of 35 Old 10-11-2011, 04:01 PM
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Very cool. Thanks Taco08jk. What's strange is, Atlanta and Marietta are pretty big city's...not a single station listed. Found several on my route to IN though.
Yeah I dont know how often its updated but I remember looking not to long ago and seeing some dunwoody/sandy springs locations but I dont see them now. Go figure

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