Why did my Rear Diff seal go bad? - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 11:13 AM Thread Starter
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Why did my Rear Diff seal go bad?

I discovered that the seal on my rear Diff, where the Drive shaft goes into it, took a shit. Oil slung all over the underside and a lot of freeplay going on. It is an '08 with only 38000 miles on it. So did it go bad from it beeing at a bad angle from the lift, or maybe the drive shaft is not the correct length, or might it be just a shitty seal. Any imputs from previous experiences? It is in the shop right now, but it isn't a "JEEP" shop, so I don't know how familier they would be of the cause if it is a common jeep problem.
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post #2 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 11:16 AM
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what size lift are you running? is it the stock ds?

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post #3 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
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I don't know the exact lift.... I bought it used from a dealership, and it wasn't a jeep dealership. But I am running 37's with flat fenders and it is a superlift. but no more than 4 inches max.
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post #4 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 11:25 AM
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A lot of things can cause that seal to go bad. Seeing as you are running 37"s I think it is safe to assume that it has been regeared at some point. My guess is it was a not so perfect install and it just took awhile to show. Shouldnt be to expensive of a fix. New crush sleeve, new seal and new pinion nut. Install and crank to 250lb/ft!!!

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post #5 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongoSean View Post
I discovered that the seal on my rear Diff, where the Drive shaft goes into it, took a shit. Oil slung all over the underside and a lot of freeplay going on. It is an '08 with only 38000 miles on it. So did it go bad from it beeing at a bad angle from the lift, or maybe the drive shaft is not the correct length, or might it be just a shitty seal. Any imputs from previous experiences? It is in the shop right now, but it isn't a "JEEP" shop, so I don't know how familier they would be of the cause if it is a common jeep problem.
I'd get it out of that shop and bring it to East Coast Gear in Raleigh as first choice, they warranty all of their work for 5 years. Is it at a driveshaft or gear shop at least?

Bring it to East coast http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/ Chase(owner) 919-672-2705

or Wilson Offroad right in Fayetteville.
http://www.wilsonoffroad.com/

I had my front seal go out like that, it would up being double cardan joint broken on driveshaft and the shims for front diff loosened up which killed the seal from the pinion moving around.


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Originally Posted by Dancin Dan View Post
A Jeep just zipped past my house and I could swear I heard the driver yellin:

"The tkob is coming!! The tkob is coming!!"

Last edited by tkob1060; 11-07-2010 at 11:28 AM.
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post #6 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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if it goes beyond much more than the seal I will probably pull it from the shop, but I know these guys and they do good work. I have been to willsons', but I can't drive it that far and don't have the cash to tow it. I will see what happens on Monday.
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post #7 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ChongoSean View Post
Oil slung all over the underside and a lot of freeplay going on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongoSean View Post
if it goes beyond much more than the seal I will probably pull it from the shop, but I know these guys and they do good work. I have been to willsons', but I can't drive it that far and don't have the cash to tow it. I will see what happens on Monday.
the free play going on is your driveshaft moving around where it attaches at axle flange right? the flange was moving around right?


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancin Dan View Post
A Jeep just zipped past my house and I could swear I heard the driver yellin:

"The tkob is coming!! The tkob is coming!!"
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post #8 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
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I don't know enough about the parts down there... but the free play felt like it was comming from the Diff itself inside it.
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post #9 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ChongoSean View Post
I don't know enough about the parts down there... but the free play felt like it was comming from the Diff itself inside it.
you are most likely going to need new pinion bearings, seal, pinion nut and have the gears re-shimmed. Thats what mine needed with same trouble on the front diff.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancin Dan View Post
A Jeep just zipped past my house and I could swear I heard the driver yellin:

"The tkob is coming!! The tkob is coming!!"
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post #10 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 11:54 AM
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is it rotational play or in-and-out of the diff play?
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post #11 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 12:01 PM
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Sounds like the crush collar wasn't crushed enough to attain rotational torque, hence why the flange is moving and wiped out the seal. Your carrier bearings should be fine if that's the only issue, you'll need pinion bearings and a crush collar.

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Confucius say "If you no want break axle, Drive with BIG head not LITTLE head"
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post #12 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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In and out and up and down/ side side.

Thanks for the info guys, I gotta go, I'll check back later tonight. But am I right in takeing away from this that it was probably the re-gearing install that wasn't done right with the seal? I am running 5.13's. Or is it an angle thing or length?
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post #13 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 12:07 PM
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It was probably a bad install from the start. The NGD44 requires an extreme amount of torque to crush and seat the sleeve that most gear installers are not familiar with (think 250ft/lb). The installer probably made it goodntight and left it at that.

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post #14 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongoSean View Post
In and out and up and down/ side side.

Thanks for the info guys, I gotta go, I'll check back later tonight. But am I right in takeing away from this that it was probably the re-gearing install that wasn't done right with the seal? I am running 5.13's. Or is it an angle thing or length?
yup, sounds like an install issue.
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post #15 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongoSean View Post
In and out and up and down/ side side.

Thanks for the info guys, I gotta go, I'll check back later tonight. But am I right in takeing away from this that it was probably the re-gearing install that wasn't done right with the seal? I am running 5.13's. Or is it an angle thing or length?
did Wilson's do the install? who ever did them it should be going back to them know doubt and at their expense, including the tow. It isnt the seal install that is the problem, it is the shimming and not torquing correctly that is the problem. I had my first set of gears blow after 1200 miles because the crush sleeve was never crushed.

Personally I wouldnt let a shop do gears on JK Rubi that has not done them. I've been through gear troubles before


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancin Dan View Post
A Jeep just zipped past my house and I could swear I heard the driver yellin:

"The tkob is coming!! The tkob is coming!!"

Last edited by tkob1060; 11-07-2010 at 12:12 PM.
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post #16 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 09rubicon View Post
It was probably a bad install from the start. The NGD44 requires an extreme amount of torque to crush and seat the sleeve that most gear installers are not familiar with (think 250ft/lb). The installer probably made it goodntight and left it at that.
crush sleeves requires enough to actually crush it into place. the factory manual does not give a specific amount.

the pinion nut should only need around 160ft/lbs.
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post #17 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by tkob1060 View Post
did Wilson's do the install? who ever did them it should be going back to them know doubt and at their expense, including the tow. It isnt the seal install that is the problem, it is the shimming and not torquing correctly that is the problem. I had my first set of gears blow after 1200 miles because the crush sleeve was never crushed.

Personally I wouldnt let a shop do gears on JK Rubi that has not done them. I've been through gear troubles before

Gears are gears. If its a good, reputable gear shop they should be fine on the regearing. Its typically the e-locker that gets f'ed up.
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post #18 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by BenFoo View Post
Gears are gears. If its a good, reputable gear shop they should be fine on the regearing. Its typically the e-locker that gets f'ed up.
I agree most "gear" shops can handle it, problem is a lot of shops that only occasionally do gears fuck them all up, that goes for the crush sleeve specially on the JK. I've been through it before They screwed up the gear install and the e locker. This was a Jeep shop in NJ that now is out of business


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancin Dan View Post
A Jeep just zipped past my house and I could swear I heard the driver yellin:

"The tkob is coming!! The tkob is coming!!"
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post #19 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by tkob1060 View Post
I agree most "gear" shops can handle it, problem is a lot of shops that only occasionally do gears fuck them all up, that goes for the crush sleeve specially on the JK. I've been through it before They screwed up the gear install and the e locker. This was a Jeep shop in NJ that now is out of business
I also agree. Researching a place to regear is important. Mistakes can be costly.

I had a shop do my gears that has done all sorts of jeeps and various other types of vehicles. They had never done a JK Rubi. I was hesitant to have them do the gears but, as any good shop they stood behind their work. They ended up having to order new e-locker sensors as they messed up the ones in there. Other than that though, which I half expected due to all the other threads on elocker debacles, the gear install has been perfect. They also fully owned their mistake and paid for the replacement of the elocker sensors. Its not always how a shop handles success but how they handle mistakes that keeps me a customer. Although, doing it right the first time is nice too.
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post #20 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BenFoo View Post
I also agree. Researching a place to regear is important. Mistakes can be costly.

I had a shop do my gears that has done all sorts of jeeps and various other types of vehicles. They had never done a JK Rubi. I was hesitant to have them do the gears but, as any good shop they stood behind their work. They ended up having to order new e-locker sensors as they messed up the ones in there. Other than that though, which I half expected due to all the other threads on elocker debacles, the gear install has been perfect. They also fully owned their mistake and paid for the replacement of the elocker sensors. Its not always how a shop handles success but how they handle mistakes that keeps me a customer. Although, doing it right the first time is nice too.
It is more important then most realize. That is why I try and stress to people to see if they've done a JK before if they have a rubi. It SUCKS to have to go without your jeep again because they didnt know what they were doing.

Its great your shop stood behind their work, mine did not. It cost me 3K to get it fixed again. 1K of that was jsut for the gears because it happened when Superior went on back order for months, I got the last set of 5:13's left in the country and the place in AZ that had them knew it because Superior called them to track the set down. So he charged me out the ass for them 1K for the gears and bearing kit, and 180 to ship them Had to get ne sensors of course too and the elec. connectors, one was siliconed back together without tell me, one of the sensors had the plunger broken off, it wasnt even inside the diff when we opened it up New crush sleeves even thought originals were not crushed at all. New rear axles because they jammed them in and screwed up the splines. Only wheeled it once down in the Pine barrons before the rear gears blew up.



this chunk came out of front diff

you can see the pinion teeth chipped away here in the rear diff


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancin Dan View Post
A Jeep just zipped past my house and I could swear I heard the driver yellin:

"The tkob is coming!! The tkob is coming!!"
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post #21 of 26 Old 11-07-2010, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongoSean View Post
I discovered that the seal on my rear Diff, where the Drive shaft goes into it, took a shit. Oil slung all over the underside and a lot of freeplay going on. It is an '08 with only 38000 miles on it. So did it go bad from it beeing at a bad angle from the lift, or maybe the drive shaft is not the correct length, or might it be just a shitty seal. Any imputs from previous experiences? It is in the shop right now, but it isn't a "JEEP" shop, so I don't know how familier they would be of the cause if it is a common jeep problem.
Mine went bad at 21,000 miles on my 2007. My wife's 08 has 33,000 and is bone dry. You and I got the 2 defective ones in the batch.
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post #22 of 26 Old 11-08-2010, 05:10 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the help guys. I will definitly look out for this stuff and talk to the shop owner also.
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post #23 of 26 Old 11-08-2010, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChongoSean View Post
In and out and up and down/ side side.

Thanks for the info guys, I gotta go, I'll check back later tonight. But am I right in takeing away from this that it was probably the re-gearing install that wasn't done right with the seal? I am running 5.13's. Or is it an angle thing or length?
ANY play in the pinion will ruin the pinion seal (which is what is junk).

if you have ANY play in your pinion you either have a destroyed pinion bearing or the guy never crushed the crush sleeve. you shouldn't be able to move it AT ALL (other than spinning it)

or something crazy like your races weren't seated all the way or that type of thing...

31 jeeps in... still have issues
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post #24 of 26 Old 11-08-2010, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by tkob1060 View Post
It is more important then most realize. That is why I try and stress to people to see if they've done a JK before if they have a rubi. It SUCKS to have to go without your jeep again because they didnt know what they were doing.

Its great your shop stood behind their work, mine did not. It cost me 3K to get it fixed again. 1K of that was jsut for the gears because it happened when Superior went on back order for months, I got the last set of 5:13's left in the country and the place in AZ that had them knew it because Superior called them to track the set down. So he charged me out the ass for them 1K for the gears and bearing kit, and 180 to ship them Had to get ne sensors of course too and the elec. connectors, one was siliconed back together without tell me, one of the sensors had the plunger broken off, it wasnt even inside the diff when we opened it up New crush sleeves even thought originals were not crushed at all. New rear axles because they jammed them in and screwed up the splines. Only wheeled it once down in the Pine barrons before the rear gears blew up.
with how easy JK gears are to install that's amazing that a shop can butcher it THAT badly...

took me about 8 hours to do my wife's JK (no lockers) and it took us about the same but with 2 guys on nick's rubi

31 jeeps in... still have issues
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post #25 of 26 Old 11-08-2010, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 2k2wranglerx View Post
with how easy JK gears are to install that's amazing that a shop can butcher it THAT badly...

took me about 8 hours to do my wife's JK (no lockers) and it took us about the same but with 2 guys on nick's rubi
Yeah these guys were horrible and were recommended by a couple friends who were friends with the guys who owned the shop, they eventually screwed them over also

they had my jeep 10 days to install FT ultimate lift and the gears, I went there 4 times to try to pick it up but each time trying to back it out of garage or drive it out of parking lot would result in different noises. I know one of them was the plunger breaking

Sean how did you make out today??


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancin Dan View Post
A Jeep just zipped past my house and I could swear I heard the driver yellin:

"The tkob is coming!! The tkob is coming!!"
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