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post #1 of 36 Old 06-11-2018, 12:52 PM Thread Starter
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Crawler Conceptz (Sham)

Worst customer service ever! Imported steel (though they advertise the opposite)

I didnít want to do this but this company left me no choice.

The owner ďShadĒ is a complete liar

Going on 90 days and I still donít have everything I need to install my bumpers. They told me theyíd ship 5 days after the order.
I called 5 days later and they told me they wouldnít ship until the following week.

I called every five days after and every five days.....for almost 3 months they told me the same thing.

Shad, on more than one occasion, guaranteed it would be ready the following week of my call. Lies.

I finally, after 2 1/2 months, recieveved the back bumper (with a crooked tab)....the front bumper didnít arrive for another week after that.


Iím still awaiting the rear lights that were supposed to arrive.

During one of my conversations......which I incidentally recorded, the Secretary (Robyn) actually admits that they donít use American Steel as advertised on the website.
Iíll be happy to post that conversation here if someone can tell me how to upload it.
Iím certainly going to put it on YouTube.

Hope this gets back to you Shad and I Hope you never sell another bumper again you scumbag.

Complete sham
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post #2 of 36 Old 06-11-2018, 01:16 PM
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Call your credit card company and dispute the transaction. Damaged, incomplete, not what advertised. Get you money back!

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post #3 of 36 Old 06-11-2018, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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Call your credit card company and dispute the transaction. Damaged, incomplete, not what advertised. Get you money back!

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Done.
Just frustrating.
Honesty would have made all the difference.
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post #4 of 36 Old 06-11-2018, 09:33 PM
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Had the same issue with a front bumper. Waited 3 months after being told 3 weeks. Called and canceled the order. Then had to ride there asses to get my refund. I will never buy their products again. I they are going under just go. Donít fuck over the Jeep community of their hard earned money!!!
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post #5 of 36 Old 06-12-2018, 12:54 AM
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(If) they are going under just go. Donít fuck over the Jeep community of their hard earned money!!!
Seems like the case. Too bad since CC was essentially the spin-off from Poison Spyder as their conglomerate takeover was within sight.
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post #6 of 36 Old 06-12-2018, 05:17 AM
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Other than karma comprehension and any Jeep vendor info, Iíve nothing vetted in this conversation but wanted to point out that their social media profiles imply they are Jeepers , too.
Why on earth, even if your biz is wonky or headed South , youíd take other hardworking Jeep enthusiasts down the drain youíre in comes down to 1 of 2 possible reasons; true wickedness within the perpetrator OR drugs in the perpetrator , mmmm-OK? Drugs are bad, mmm-K, kids?

Sad to hear but this dude has been called-out on this kinda stuff many times ...

Sorry ya went thru that , OP. At least ya got your charges reversed .




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post #7 of 36 Old 06-12-2018, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by DJ1 View Post
Seems like the case. Too bad since CC was essentially the spin-off from Poison Spyder as their conglomerate takeover was within sight.
Spin off is not the right term here...


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post #8 of 36 Old 06-12-2018, 07:26 AM
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Spin off is not the right term here...
hah, +1

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post #9 of 36 Old 06-12-2018, 09:07 AM
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funny how these guys were all the rage when they hit the market on the forums. I understand the guy was a designer for PS but to basically copy PS products and try to build a company by underselling them is a poor business model and am not surprised by the downturn.
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post #10 of 36 Old 06-12-2018, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by j3ff3ry_j33p View Post
Other than karma comprehension and any Jeep vendor info, Iíve nothing vetted in this conversation but wanted to point out that their social media profiles imply they are Jeepers , too.
Why on earth, even if your biz is wonky or headed South , youíd take other hardworking Jeep enthusiasts down the drain youíre in comes down to 1 of 2 possible reasons; true wickedness within the perpetrator OR drugs in the perpetrator , mmmm-OK? Drugs are bad, mmm-K, kids?

Sad to hear but this dude has been called-out on this kinda stuff many times ...

Sorry ya went thru that , OP. At least ya got your charges reversed .



There is nothing I hate worse than when you buy something from a vendor and the money from your order is being spent on other stuff, delaying when money will be available to fulfill your order. I run into this in home repair a lot.

I owned a very small business that occasionally sold product, drop-shipped by a large distributor and occasionally floored product. If I didn't have the capital to push an order, I wouldn't take my customers' money plain and simple.
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post #11 of 36 Old 06-12-2018, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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There is nothing I hate worse than when you buy something from a vendor and the money from your order is being spent on other stuff, delaying when money will be available to fulfill your order. I run into this in home repair a lot.

I owned a very small business that occasionally sold product, drop-shipped by a large distributor and occasionally floored product. If I didn't have the capital to push an order, I wouldn't take my customers' money plain and simple.
I paid with PayPal and put in a dispute. They keep fighting the dispute but refuse to complete my order.
So shady.
I filed a dispute and they sent the back bumper and provided PayPal a tracking number.
PayPal thought I received my whole order so I had to re-file the dispute saying they still owed me a front bumper and lights. After I reopened the claim They then sent my front bumper.
PayPal was given another tracking number and informed the order was finished.
Still no lights so I filed another dispute because the lights were not included and the tab was crooked.

After I reopened the claim for the third time They gave PayPal yet another tracking number and.....get this.....they sent me a single light ďmy back bumper requires 2Ē it has 2 holes in it! Not rocket science! You built the bumper! Send the right stuff!

I reopened the Dispute AGAIN informing PayPal that I still havenít received everything yet and....you guessed it...they gave PayPal yet another tracking number. I half expect a cheese grater to arrive in the mail.

An anology involving monkeys and a football comes to mind.

Should I have to pay the full amount for this?
Keep in mind....my order was placed and paid in full on March 19 and I was told it would ship after 5 days.


I would just send it back at this point but Iíve already paid to have them Rhino lined. It was also the only bumper I could find that was stubby and had both a recessed winch and a built in skid plate.

They repeatedly lied to me. Iíve made no less than 20 calls to them and was lied to about everything including the origin of the steel they use.

What would you do?
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post #12 of 36 Old 06-12-2018, 02:12 PM
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What would you do?
Sounds like you are on the right path. If it were me, I would document all their antics here and play the dispute / resolution game until all of the gear arrives or a partial credit is issued. No matter what, there's not much you can do except maybe appeal to PayPal that they are not playing nice and request a credit.

Next, I would either:
- Sell the bumper / parts here at a loss and buy new gear from a different vendor
- Find a non-profit that accepts part donations and itemize the donated value on taxes and buy new gear from a different vendor

After that, I would try hard to suck it up and move on. Sounds like you are ready to do that, you just need your parts so you can go on your trip.
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post #13 of 36 Old 06-12-2018, 02:39 PM
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I can share my experiences with this company.

I had a local shop order me 6" stretch corner armor. After a few weeks of not getting shipping info, they said they would get back with what was going on. No response back. Shop called back for me a week later, and they said they were behind on orders, but it was still being made. ...Okay, why didnt they tell us that. 6 more weeks pass, and we start calling daily. They are very polite on the phone, but never have a solid answer until I was told "We just have to cut the holes for the LEDs and it will be good to go" This took longer than a week until it actually got sent. They sent it with the wrong taillight holes, but I was not going to wait for the corners again, so I just got new tails.

That being said, its a solid product. No complaints about the quality of the product. But I am hesitant to order from them again. My daily driver was down, cut apart waiting for this corner armor for far longer than I expected because of the shipping delays.
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post #14 of 36 Old 06-12-2018, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
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I can share my experiences with this company.

I had a local shop order me 6" stretch corner armor. After a few weeks of not getting shipping info, they said they would get back with what was going on. No response back. Shop called back for me a week later, and they said they were behind on orders, but it was still being made. ...Okay, why didnt they tell us that. 6 more weeks pass, and we start calling daily. They are very polite on the phone, but never have a solid answer until I was told "We just have to cut the holes for the LEDs and it will be good to go" This took longer than a week until it actually got sent. They sent it with the wrong taillight holes, but I was not going to wait for the corners again, so I just got new tails.

That being said, its a solid product. No complaints about the quality of the product. But I am hesitant to order from them again. My daily driver was down, cut apart waiting for this corner armor for far longer than I expected because of the shipping delays.
They gave me the same story about LED holes and not having a laser cutter so they had to order the parts....that was just one of the excuses.

I already went on my trip.

I contacted the bbb and left this review

Beware! Please Read!
Wow! Where do I start?I was looking for an American company who used American steel to make there products. My search led me to Crawler Conceptz. Despite the negative online reviews I proceeded with my order.
I ordered bumpers and lights for my Jeep March 19, 2018.
the owner "Shad"said my products would ship within five days.
I paid in Full....over $1,300 through my PayPal account.
After 5 days I did not receive a tracking number so naturally I called to inquire. The secretary, Robin, informed me that they were running behind schedule and it would be another five days before my product shipped.
I had ordered the bumpers for a jeep rally held in Hot Springs Arkansas memorial day weekend. Since we had so much time to get them in and have them painted before that I decided to proceed. I waited another five days and called again when I received no tracking information. Robin explained that the parts were on back order and since the owner wasn't in (he was out of town) she couldn't tell me exactly when they would ship but assured me it would be early the following week.
I waited until Wednesday of the following week before I made another call "no tracking information yet".
When I was informed for the fourth time that my product had shipped I asked to speak to the owner (Shad) who initially took my order.
Shad told me he was meeting with his production team and he would call me back. That never happened. I called again the next day to speak to him but he was conveniently at lunch. I called again a couple of hours later and finally caught him. It was a Wednesday.... He told me he didn't want to break any more promises so he couldn't guarantee the product would be shipped the following Thursday but if I would be patient enough to wait for the one after that (15 days later) he could guarantee it for then.
Although it would put me in a tight position to get these bumpers and lights in with time to have them painted and installed before my Memorial Day trip I agreed because no other company would be able to get them to me on this short of notice.
I had also planned my trip and prepaid for the room at this point.
These bumpers were a very important part of this trip. Not having the proper bumper to install a winch on makes going on certain trails un advisable. Not protecting your jeep with steel bumpers and going on the trails using stock options is completely unadvisable. Any member of the off-road community would tell you the same ..... so would the owner of crawler Conceptz. That's why he guaranteed I would have these in. The new 15 day guarantee passes and still no tracking number or phone call.
At this point I start recording our phone calls.
I'm told that the bumpers will not be sent out because the owner is waiting on some parts that have to come in.
I asked Robin on a recorded conversation if the delay had anything to do with the new tariffs that President Trump put on imported steel. She said yes, it had slowed down the process for sure. She then told me that not all of the steel was made in America..."when we can't get it it has to come from somewhere else" Their website advertises American steel! I made my order partially based on that criteria being filled. Shad of course is not available.
When I finally get him the next day, now over 60 days past the original ship date, I asked him why my bumpers haven't been sent yet despite his many promises... he told me they changed parts vendors and that the back bumper was done but it would be longer on the front bumper. He said he didn't have a laser cutter or he would cut them himself. I know..... not my problem right. When I confronted him about the fact that his secretary told me the steel is not coming from America he Replied "she has no idea what she's talking about".
He shipped the back bumper and it arrived (while I was on my memorial day trip). The trip....total waste of money. I couldn't go on many trails that I wanted to go on for fear of damaging my vehicle and not having a winch. To compound matters I smashed my plastic back bumper while I was on the trip. would've never happened if he would've sent the bumper in time. A steel bumper would've certainly held up. I have an insurance claim for evidence as well as photographs. To compound matters I smashed my plastic back bumper while I was on the trip. Something that would've never happened if he would've sent the bumper in time. A steel bumper would've certainly held up. I have an insurance claim for evidence as well as photographs.
At the time of this post I'm still missing my lights and have a crooked tab on my back bumper. On my last call he offered to replace my rear bumper. Would you go through this again? No partial refund offered. I was cursed, told I couldn't be made happy, and informed that they would not be taking any more of my calls. They took no responsibility! Believe all the horror stories they're all true!

I left it on yelp too.
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post #15 of 36 Old 06-12-2018, 04:37 PM
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what time were the monkeys supposed to start playing football ,again?








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post #16 of 36 Old 06-12-2018, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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what time were the monkeys supposed to start playing football ,again?






Ha!
Every day from 9-5 at the Crawler Conceptz offices
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post #17 of 36 Old 06-13-2018, 04:11 AM
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Ha!
Every day from 9-5 at the Crawler Conceptz offices
ha!

You can pay me later for setting you up with that





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post #18 of 36 Old 06-13-2018, 04:26 AM
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Spin off is not the right term here...
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funny how these guys were all the rage when they hit the market on the forums. I understand the guy was a designer for PS but to basically copy PS products and try to build a company by underselling them is a poor business model and am not surprised by the downturn.

If Larry and he left on good terms and Larry gave him the green light to go ahead with it seeing how he was going to sell the company anyway to a large conglomerate known to sell products all made overseas, I don't see a problem. Even in the eyes of the law, if a non-disclosure was never signed to protect the designs under the Poison umbrella then it wouldn't even hold up in court.

If we're talking about straight-up copying, well there's a butt load of guys making boatside sliders & tube sliders now (who can make the claim they were the first?) and we're not even including the chinese knock-off market.

Should VKS get a bad rap vs. EVO?

*edit*
With regards to how CC is being run & managed, now that seems to be a completely different story...

With regards to marketing shams, don't get me started on Rancho again...

Last edited by DJ1; 06-13-2018 at 04:34 AM.
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post #19 of 36 Old 06-13-2018, 06:45 AM
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If Larry and he left on good terms and Larry gave him the green light to go ahead with it seeing how he was going to sell the company anyway to a large conglomerate known to sell products all made overseas, I don't see a problem. Even in the eyes of the law, if a non-disclosure was never signed to protect the designs under the Poison umbrella then it wouldn't even hold up in court.

If we're talking about straight-up copying, well there's a butt load of guys making boatside sliders & tube sliders now (who can make the claim they were the first?) and we're not even including the chinese knock-off market.

Should VKS get a bad rap vs. EVO?

*edit*
With regards to how CC is being run & managed, now that seems to be a completely different story...

With regards to marketing shams, don't get me started on Rancho again...
They didnt leave on the terms you are describing,

Even without an NDA, PS has copy wrights on the designs so there is a basis for legal action but unfortunately its a pretty tough case to win given our wonderful copy wright protection laws...

The company who actually brings it to market first is the one who can claim they were first...this part shouldnt have to be rocket science...


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post #20 of 36 Old 06-13-2018, 09:33 AM
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They didnt leave on the terms you are describing,

Even without an NDA, PS has copy wrights on the designs so there is a basis for legal action but unfortunately its a pretty tough case to win given our wonderful copy wright protection laws...

The company who actually brings it to market first is the one who can claim they were first...this part shouldnt have to be rocket science...

I don't know the basis/status of their relationship. I was just sayin'.

Also, do we know for a fact that PS (under Larry's ownership) registered a copyright for the designs Shad authored? If Larry did, then why didn't he sue CC and allow CC to continue business based on those "similar" designs. I'm betting there was either no copyrights registered thus no copyright infringement to enforce OR maybe Larry just didn't want to dick around with it?

So basically, the 99% of the current aftermarket are essentially knock-offs then since who can make the claim they were first to offer a steel and/or aluminum bumper, fenders, and/or sliders?

In terms of designs, I'm surprised EVO (whether you love them or hate them) hasn't made a move against VKS (whether you love them or hate them). EVO probably didn't take the time to copyright the design drawing so do you fault VKS for EVO's lack of action if that is the case?

With regards to law, we can't even lock up people like Obama, HRC, and 80% of CON-gress for blatant TREASON. What are copyright laws? What is rule-of-law?
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post #21 of 36 Old 06-13-2018, 09:50 AM
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I don't know the basis/status of their relationship. I was just sayin'.

Also, do we know for a fact that PS (under Larry's ownership) registered a copyright for the designs Shad authored? If Larry did, then why didn't he sue CC and allow CC to continue business based on those "similar" designs. I'm betting there was either no copyrights registered thus no copyright infringement to enforce OR maybe Larry just didn't want to dick around with it?

So basically, the 99% of the current aftermarket are essentially knock-offs then since who can make the claim they were first to offer a steel and/or aluminum bumper, fenders, and/or sliders?

In terms of designs, I'm surprised EVO (whether you love them or hate them) hasn't made a move against VKS (whether you love them or hate them). EVO probably didn't take the time to copyright the design drawing so do you fault VKS for EVO's lack of action if that is the case?

With regards to law, we can't even lock up people like Obama, HRC, and 80% of CON-gress for blatant TREASON. What are copyright laws? What is rule-of-law?

The issue with defending one's copyright is the ambiguity of how much needs to be changed to qualify as non infringement which often leads to costly and long legal battles with no guarantee of success.

The material has nothing to do with being able to lay claim to a design. The issue has to do with one company obviously infringing on the design of another. CC's early bumpers were obviously copies of PS with maybe one minor revision. DV8 hoods are obviously inferior copies of TOTL Innovations. VKS sliders are a copy of EVO as you keep alluding to. I just wish "obviously" was easily legally defended in this Country but sadly its not.

I fault the company infringing on someone else's design regardless of a copyright in place or not. Its simple fuckin ethics but some would rather make a buck... Just my opinion.


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post #22 of 36 Old 06-13-2018, 10:00 AM
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Just to illustrate my point by using your VKS/EVO example. If EVO decided to go after VKS, VKS uses triangular shaped bent steel as the lattice framework while EVO uses round tube. That difference alone on a product this simple could be enough for VKS to say it is not copyright infringement. A business has to determine if the cost of an uncertain legal battle is worth shutting down someone like VKS


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post #23 of 36 Old 06-13-2018, 10:17 AM
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I fault the company infringing on someone else's design regardless of a copyright in place or not. Its simple fuckin ethics but some would rather make a buck... Just my opinion.
I totally agree with you on this point. People who value $$ above everything else could care less about ethics. As it has been said, the love of $$ is the root of all evil...


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Originally Posted by ALASHA View Post
Just to illustrate my point by using your VKS/EVO example. If EVO decided to go after VKS, VKS uses triangular shaped bent steel as the lattice framework while EVO uses round tube. That difference alone on a product this simple could be enough for VKS to say it is not copyright infringement. A business has to determine if the cost of an uncertain legal battle is worth shutting down someone like VKS
I hear you. What about for example the VKS Warden bumper + bumper skid versus a PS Brawler Lite bumper + bumper skid?

http://www.vksfab.com/product/the-wa...-winch-bumper/

http://shop.poisonspyder.com/JK-Braw.../17-59-010.htm
http://shop.poisonspyder.com/JK-Braw...7-63-030p1.htm

I'm no rocket scientist.... as someone who at one time has owned a set of VKS pre-runner sliders and can appreciate the welds VKS lays down, I'm just sayin'.

Last edited by DJ1; 06-13-2018 at 10:19 AM.
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post #24 of 36 Old 06-13-2018, 01:10 PM
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I hear you. What about for example the VKS Warden bumper + bumper skid versus a PS Brawler Lite bumper + bumper skid?

The Warden Front Winch Bumper - VKS Fabrication

JK Brawler Lite Front Bumper | Jeep JK Wrangler Front Bumpers | Poison Spyder Customs
JK Brawler MID Front Skid - Black | Jeep Wrangler JK Front Bumpers | Poison Spyder Customs

I'm no rocket scientist.... as someone who at one time has owned a set of VKS pre-runner sliders and can appreciate the welds VKS lays down, I'm just sayin'.
Im no lawyer but its the same thing. From a quick side by side comparison the only difference I see is the PS version has an extra face at each corner that the VKS version is omitting and VKS has d rings. This would be the same legal dilemma - Is that enough difference...


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post #25 of 36 Old 06-13-2018, 01:32 PM
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Im no lawyer but its the same thing. From a quick side by side comparison the only difference I see is the PS version has an extra face at each corner that the VKS version is omitting and VKS has d rings. This would be the same legal dilemma - Is that enough difference...

I agree. I think it's the same as well. PS can come with or without d-ring tabs. Same with the VKS version I believe. For me personally, the 2 extra faces *MISSING* on each VKS corner isn't a big enough difference

Last edited by DJ1; 06-13-2018 at 01:35 PM.
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