FCA Voiding Lifetime Powertrain Warranty Due to Not Using Chrysler Dealer for Service - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 49 Old 01-17-2018, 04:26 AM Thread Starter
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FCA Voiding Lifetime Powertrain Warranty Due to Not Using Chrysler Dealer for Service

All: I could use a little feedback. I cannot find this exact subject addressed anywhere. Like many of you I have a 2008 JKU I bought new, and it came with the lifetime powertrain warranty. I do all my own fluid services. At 5 years I had it inspected. The dealer, whom I trust (rare, I know), asked if I had records, but did not need to see them. The warranty was extended, no issue.

Last month I visited for my 10 year inspection. This time the dealer asked for records saying Chrysler would need to see them. I supplied them email photos of my logs and receipts, everything was there. In early January they told me the Area Manager for FCA had denied renewal and voided the warranty. The reason, I had not had my service done at Chrysler dealer.

We are all familiar with the Magnuson Moss Warranty act of 1975. I quoted this back to the dealer who didnít really comment, but stepped aside and referred me directly to the Chrysler Customer Care line, saying the decision had been made by FCA, not by the dealer, and there was little they could do. They would not give me the contact info for the FCA area manager who made the decision.

Iíve been off and on with FCAís Customer Care for several weeks, and have pressed pretty hard. Initially they said no, then agreed to review the case and asked me to fax them my records, which I did. Along with that I included a printout directly from FTC.gov detailing the fact that by law they must allow an owner to do their own work. They also had called the dealer, and Customer Care acknowledged the dealer had told them the reason for denial was not having the vehicle serviced by Chrysler. But, again it came back with a no. I bumped it up to a supervisor, who called yesterday evening with a no, but said they would talk to the dealer today and get clarification.

She also stated this has happened before, and they do not reinstate the warranty. And that Customer Care does not have the authority to overrule an Area Manager.

Iím very much aware of people having issues because they did not have their inspection. That does not apply in this case. I followed all the rules as stated in my warranty book.

Iíve asked for notification in writing from FCA, with the reason clearly stated. Customer Care declined to do so, sending me back to the dealer for that. I have it from the dealer already. I need it from FCA.

Obviously this is a clear violation of Magnuson Moss and a breach of contract without legitimate cause. But, FCA will do what they want despite the legalities, as I am only one small voice they can easily ignore. My question to you is, has anyone else been in this situation and successfully won reinstatement?

Admittedly the warranty has been good to me, but this is now a moral and legal issue. I do not intend to just sit back and let them take advantage of me. My plans are to have a chat with the service manager, attempt to get the contact info for the area manager and talk to him, then if necessary file a grievance with the FTC and the state attorneyís office, but I doubt that will get me anywhere. Any other suggestions? Thanks.
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post #2 of 49 Old 01-17-2018, 05:21 AM
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Good luck with that. It's now a question of who has more money to spend.

According to the Federal Trade Commission...

It's perfectly legal for an auto manufacturer to require any/all routine maintenance tasks be performed only by a dealer as a condition of the warranty.
However, if such is the case, all tasks they claim only they can perform must be performed at no charge to the customer.

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post #3 of 49 Old 01-17-2018, 06:57 AM
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I have 165K miles on mine and have my 10 year inspection in March 2019. Since the day I bought it in 2009 I've been saying "I can't wait to see the reason they deny me when this thing dies." It didn't occur to me they would do it on the next inspection. Good luck and keep us posted.

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post #4 of 49 Old 01-17-2018, 07:22 AM Thread Starter
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Wow, I would love to have taken it to the Chrysler dealer and have them pay for those services!

Regarding the FTC, straight off their website: "Do I have to use the dealer for repairs and maintenance to keep my warranty in effect? No. An independent mechanic, a retail chain shop, or even you yourself can do routine maintenance and repairs on your vehicle. In fact, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which is enforced by the FTC., make it illegal for manufacturers or dealers to claim that your warranty is void or to deny coverage under your warranty simply because someone other than dealer did the work."

Maybe the FTC has had enough complaints that they will take FCA to task on this. Probably wishful thinking.
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post #5 of 49 Old 01-17-2018, 07:29 AM
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What FCA is doing to you is really shitty. But not surprising. They know the JKs covered by those warranties are now hitting the mileage where major failures will start to happen. And they want out from under having to pay for the repairs.

You did everything right and now they are going to shaft you just because they can. They know they have more resources to fight this than you do.

Really sucks. Somehow, I hope you prevail!!!
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post #6 of 49 Old 01-17-2018, 08:03 AM
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so what is your warranty issue. What are you trying to have replaced?

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post #7 of 49 Old 01-17-2018, 10:40 AM Thread Starter
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Goose:

I am not attempting a claim on any particular part. Every 5 years you are required to have your vehicle inspected by the dealer and the lifetime powertrain warranty extended for another 5 years. Chrysler has advised me they are not going to extend the warranty. So when my next issue occurs, no more warranty.
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post #8 of 49 Old 01-17-2018, 07:45 PM
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Lemon law attorneys are paid by the manufacturer. I wonder if they also would receive payment for bad faith warranty denials. Might be worth asking one. Incidentally, I would ask where that was a condition of the warranty, especially since it is in direct violation of federal law. Maybe @Keith B. can help. He likes hard cases.

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post #9 of 49 Old 01-17-2018, 09:38 PM
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I had my 10 year inspection a couple months ago on my '08 I bought in late '07. They didn't ask me for any records and extended my warranty. Sorry for your troubles, I hope you can teach them a lesson !
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post #10 of 49 Old 01-18-2018, 03:47 AM Thread Starter
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Scooter: I have already asked to be shown where it is a condition of my warranty that I have it serviced by the dealer, and when they notified me of this. They dodge the question.

Darrenís: I was wondering if anyone else had successfully gotten past the 10 year inspection. This is good to know. Thanks.
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post #11 of 49 Old 01-18-2018, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
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Scooter: I have already asked to be shown where it is a condition of my warranty that I have it serviced by the dealer, and when they notified me of this. They dodge the question.

Darrenís: I was wondering if anyone else had successfully gotten past the 10 year inspection. This is good to know. Thanks.
Threaten to hire an attorney and they may back off and extend you... If they don't, actually hire one and sue them... You will win ESPECIALLY if it says than any mechanic or yourself can do the maintenance.
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post #12 of 49 Old 01-18-2018, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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If anyone else has successfully had their 10 year extension and did their own service please let me know. I met with the GM for the dealership today, and that seems to be of interest. I will keep your name out of it.

GM promised to have a discussion with the FCA area rep. Beyond that he would not commit. I think I will post this on the other JK site to see if I can find others with a successful 10 year extension.
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post #13 of 49 Old 01-18-2018, 08:37 PM
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When you say "serviced" do you mean just oil changes, tire rotations, air cleaner change, etc ? Is that all you did ?
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post #14 of 49 Old 01-19-2018, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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Dahreno:

No. This means oil changes in my case every 5000 miles, book recommends 6000, transmission fluid and filter required every 120,000 miles, transaxle fluid changes required every 60,000 miles, diff fluid as needed, and an occasional radiator flush. Probably air filter as well. All of these I performed myself except an occasional oil change, two of three transmission services were done by the dealer and nearly all the diff services were done by the dealer as there were warranty issues and they were in there quite a bit. I have receipts and a log for every service.
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post #15 of 49 Old 01-19-2018, 05:16 PM
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I bought a JK and a Durango in Dec of 2007. The Jeep has never been under warranty due to modifications. The Durango has had it's second 5 year inspection, and no issues. I even made sure to get the inspection report. I own a shop and have never had the dealer service my vehicles except for recall work.
Did the dealership put everything in writing?

Best wishes, and get an attorney.
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post #16 of 49 Old 01-20-2018, 07:39 AM
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FCA is cruising for a class action suit. They CAN NOT cancel your lifetime warranty under those criteria. Your area rep is an idiot and is the first one that should be dragged into court. Iíd advise you WRITE FCA disputing the rep and the call center. Send the letter registered mail. Document every conversation. If you get no satisfaction contact a local attorney who specializes in lemon law, as they will be familiar with Magnoson-Moss. Demand not only the restoration of your warranty, but reimbursement of your legal fees.

Also, the lifetime warranty CAN NOT be cancelled due to modifications unless the mfr can prove a specific mod caused a failure. FCA has tried various tactics to circumvent their liability under lifetime. When Fiat bought Chrysler they bought both the assets and the liabilities.
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post #17 of 49 Old 01-26-2018, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnersJK View Post
If anyone else has successfully had their 10 year extension and did their own service please let me know. I met with the GM for the dealership today, and that seems to be of interest. I will keep your name out of it.

I just passed my 10 year in CO. Iíve done all my own fluids except I had a shop flush the coolant when it was due. Didnít ask about maintenance records for the inspection . I have the recall work done at the dealer, so they at least know me. Iím sure I forgot to keep a receipt or two for the oil or a filter but Iíve kept meticulous track of all work. Iím also wondering how long until the try to cancel my warranty. Iím sure weíve become a very small group.




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post #18 of 49 Old 01-26-2018, 08:19 AM
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Start a go fund me page to raise money for an attorney and post the link on forum sites, Iím sure all jeep owners will pitch in since it will help us all in the long run.

Iíve been in the Service department side of the dealerships for 26 years and people always say they are going to sue you so itís not a big threat unfortunately because very few people follow through with it.

They canít cancel your warranty for doing your own work, as long as someone has receipts for they work being done or receipts for product they bought and did it themselves, Iíve never denied warranty. Only time Iíve denied warranty is when they have no proof and the condition of the fluid and of the parts in question show obvious signs of neglect.
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post #19 of 49 Old 01-26-2018, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
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Update: I received a final call from a supervisor at Jeep Customer Care a couple of days ago. The info they had was very confusing, sounded a bit like they were bending a little, but long story short, no change. The GM from the dealership called me back today and confirmed the area manager is not budging. Same reason as before. He is appealing to the the area managers boss, but I suspect that will go nowhere.

Canueh, you are correct Iím sure about suing. Chrysler has deep pockets. Even though it is evident they are in the wrong, they will gamble that I wonít follow through.

After the dealerís GM called I contacted a major consumer law firm that specializes in warranty settlements and takes their fee out of the recovery. They are reviewing the potential and I will hear back from them next week. During the interview even they said Chrysler was way off base, but the question is whether it is worth their time. With some punitive damages, maybe.

I explained that others in the Jeep community had passed their 10 year inspection while having done their own service work and not even supplying documentation. They asked if I had names. Iím not sure if anyone else is willing to commit to this, but if they take the case I will need examples that will hold up in court, so putting this out there again.

To everyone, let me know if you are willing to participate, should the attorneyís want examples. Thanks.
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post #20 of 49 Old 01-27-2018, 05:30 AM
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I think your biggest problem, based on what I have read, is that you lack actual damages. In order to win in any negligence action, you must have actual damages. So my question is, where have you suffered anything from this whole affair. Yeh, you have no confidence, but in order to pursue, you have to be out of pocket something. Maybe I am missing something?

As for punitive damages, that hurdle is VERY high to overcome. You have to prove intent by clear and convincing evidence. Negligence is much easier to prove, which brings us back to the first paragraph. It is good you are talking to an attorney, but understand there may be little that can be accomplished. If I were you, think about the end game. What is the goal? What do you hope to accomplish?

Just my two cents, for what it is worth.

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post #21 of 49 Old 01-29-2018, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
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I explained that others in the Jeep community had passed their 10 year inspection while having done their own service work and not even supplying documentation. They asked if I had names. Iím not sure if anyone else is willing to commit to this, but if they take the case I will need examples that will hold up in court, so putting this out there again.

To everyone, let me know if you are willing to participate, should the attorneyís want examples. Thanks.
Wouldnt your lawyers be able to subpoena Chrysler for records proving/disproving they rejected all 10 year inspections of people who did their own work. Either way subpoenaing that evidence would be damning to Jeep
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post #22 of 49 Old 01-30-2018, 02:05 PM
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If anyone else has successfully had their 10 year extension and did their own service please let me know.
Had my 10 year inspection today. Passed with no questions asked.
I have done all my own routine maintenance and non-warranty repairs.
They didn't ask for any receipts or log book entries.

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post #23 of 49 Old 02-03-2018, 05:36 PM
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OP, good moves by you so far. Stay connected with the consumer group you contacted. Chrysler CAN NOT cancel a warranty if you can prove the work has been completed. They have to prove you were told at the time of purchase that THE DEALER must perform all services. They didn’t do that because such a requirement is a violation of Federal law under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

Your Area Manager appears to be an idiot. Try and have a face to face meeting with him/her and demand an explanation, plus in writing where you agreed in writing by your signature to have the vehicle serviced ONLY at the dealer. You DO have damages, your time
Is valuable. Keep track of the dates & times you had to haggle over this BS. The consumer group can be invaluable in this regard. Literally millions of people were given those lifetime warranties in the late 2000s when they purchased Chrysler Corp vehicles. FCA bought the liabilities as well as the assets when they bought Chrysler. If they are trying to avoid the liability via evasion or deception the penalties on this in a class action could be enormous.

FYI, I retired as General Manager Customer Service Operations for a Chrysler competitor. I know this stuff well. PM me if I can be of assistance.

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post #24 of 49 Old 02-04-2018, 08:16 AM
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Well, I do live in Colorado, but I wasnít in charge of ďCity stoners.Ē Damn autocorrect. It was Customer Service Operations.

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post #25 of 49 Old 02-04-2018, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Az Scooter View Post
Lemon law attorneys are paid by the manufacturer. I wonder if they also would receive payment for bad faith warranty denials. Might be worth asking one. Incidentally, I would ask where that was a condition of the warranty, especially since it is in direct violation of federal law. Maybe @Keith B. can help. He likes hard cases.
If you mean by that you think Lemon Law attorneys are on retainer, etc. or employed by the manufacturers, you are misinformed. Lemon Law attorneys are in private practice and many specialize in this area of consumer law, which in some States like California or Florida can be quite lucrative. Wise manufacturers avoid Lemon Law suits via proactive settlements and in-dealer process improvement & training. Manufacturers rarely win Lemon Law suits and the extended costs of the litigation can be devastating.

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