Success stories on an unsleeved/non trussed D44 - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 07-10-2017, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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Success stories on an unsleeved/non trussed D44

After thorough research I'm almost ready not to sleeve my Rubi front end. Just looking for those that have ran 35s and up on some of the more demanding trails respectfully (not beating on your Jeep).

After thorough research, I'm well aware of the similarities between the D30/44. I'm also aware the exterior truss is ideal and duratrac BJ's and Gussets are pretty much a requirement.
Dropping major coin on a new super axle isn't an potion at this time (I'd rather pay the loan off thanks lol)

Given the above upgrades, who have had long term success?

Tires are 315/75r16 on aluminum pro comps at 4.5 BS.

Thanks in advance..

Ton of shit, and not listing it all..

Last edited by Tierhog; 07-10-2017 at 09:04 PM.
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post #2 of 30 Old 07-10-2017, 09:43 PM
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Two JKURs, on 37s, one with a hemi. All trails in Moab except Pritchett and some Area Bfe. (friends have done Pritchett on 35s and 37s).

CO trails: Spring Creek, Iron Chest, Chinaman, Slaughterhouse, etc, etc.

No bypassing. 9 years. No bent axles, no bent Cs.

Questions???
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post #3 of 30 Old 07-10-2017, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
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Hell yes I have questions... That goes against the grain of every Jeep prophecy I've read. Brilliant. Your basically bone stock 44s? How in the hell... Lol.. Such a contrast to what I've read. Why does such requirements make it so far?

Anything you would have done differently? Observations? Maintenance differences? You better not be on stock ball joints or I'll scream.. Lol

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post #4 of 30 Old 07-11-2017, 05:27 AM
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I'm gonna bet @Nucleophile will agree that its called knowing when to back-off a line and re approach, knowing how to drive the vehicle in question and not being a puffed-up Alpha crowd conscious goober who makes bad or ( worse) impaired decisions when wheeling. Those plus a little responsible use of throttle and even a non- built up D30 can survive. But just Barely, ha
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post #5 of 30 Old 07-11-2017, 06:15 AM
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Axle upgrades are overblown. You don't need to sleeve and I have yet to see a proper axle truss for the front JK. Lots of hype though and manufacturers want to sell products and the JK crowd is just too eager to spend crazy money on their jeeps.

I see failures from people that don't know how to drive off road, mainly because they don't want to re gear, and people that run into curbs on the road.

A rubicon on 35's that is not climbing on rocks everyday should be fine.

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post #6 of 30 Old 07-11-2017, 07:16 AM
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Educated, non crowd pleasing finesse on trails equal to your builds abilities.
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post #7 of 30 Old 07-11-2017, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Tierhog View Post
Hell yes I have questions... That goes against the grain of every Jeep prophecy I've read. Brilliant. Your basically bone stock 44s? How in the hell... Lol.. Such a contrast to what I've read. Why does such requirements make it so far?

Anything you would have done differently? Observations? Maintenance differences? You better not be on stock ball joints or I'll scream.. Lol
Your OP was asking about sleeving and trussing (and let's just throw in C gussets as well) so that was what I was addressing. The AXLE HOUSINGs were bone stone, absolutely. My basic build was buy a JKUR regear it and at the same time upgrade the ball joints (ProSteers in the first, Synergy in the second) and add RCV front axle shafts. I never broke anything and I never bent anything.

Rock crawling does not bend axles if you keep your brain turned on. About the only thing I avoided was excessive axle hop. If the front axle starts to hop like crazy, its time to stop and try a different line. Other than that, it was pretty much whatever it took to get over something. Bumping usually involves the rear axle, but when needed I bumped the front up and over something. Usually you can put a tire on a big ledge or rock and crawl up it. I have videos of me doing really tall and vertical ledges in Moab. The kind where your bumper hits first and the tires second.

Based on my years of wheeling, I think axle bending is a problem for people who like to do to high speed stuff. If you are going 40+ MPH and then hit a big dip or rock in the trail, the force of that impact can bend an axle. Another situation is jumping the jeep in the sand dunes. Landing on your front axle can certainly bend it. I have yet to see anyone bend an axle in low speed rock crawling. And I organize 2 Moab trips per year and have had as many as 15 rigs out on the trails. Nobody bent an axle, and at least a couple of guys are pretty damn hard on the throttle. Harder than I am and they have not bent an axle.

So I have a theory about why my experience "goes against the grain of every Jeep prophecy I've read".
Very few people bend an axle and then sleeve or truss it, would you agree? 99% of the people who sleeve and/or truss do it before the axle is actually bent. They spent $XXX on this upgrade and therefore are compelled to extoll the virtues of doing so, otherwise they would be forced to admit they wasted $XXX on something that was not needed. Its their way of rationalizing why THEY believed something they read on the internet or the sales hype that some manufacturer was spewing. THEY didn't make a bad decision! (They never make bad decisions....) THEY must have been right and thus feel empowered (perhaps compelled) to come on forums and exclaim that JK front axle tubes will bend just by having 37 inch tire within a 100' radius of the jeep. It helps them feel better about the money they spent on sleeves / trusses / gussets. (The whole bending Cs thing is an even bigger joke, but a whole other topic.)

Observations? Get yourself a good true know straight edge and check your axle tube periodically. That is the acid test.

Would I have done anything differently? I still have not found a ball joint I like. They all have positives and negatives. Not sure what I will do on the next JKUR if there ever is a next one. And I will not run RCV axles in the future. Sure, they are strong. I bought them primarily because I do a lot of wheeling in Moab and Moab can eat front u-joints. (Sometimes you just have to be locked and have a lot of steering input to make an obstacle.) But I hate the constant grease slinging they do. Shit gets everywhere. And the "Lifetime Warranty" doesn't include rebuilding the CV joint. If you run them long enough they will start to click. And then you need to rebuild the CV jonts. The kit from RCV is $100 per side and does not include the $40 tube of grease you will need to repack them. Pain in the ass.

One last thought. Many years ago I got into a brawl with my good buddy Eddie on his forum over the topic of running 37s on stock axle housings. It was a shit show, but even Dynatrac of all people jumped in and agreed with me, as long as you have "reasonable expectations". I am not sure exactly what Dynatrac meant by that as "reasonable" varies from person to person. But since Eddie was saying that 37s would bend a stock D44 driven down the freeway at 55 MPH, it was at least a modicum of common sense thrown into an otherwise completely moronic dialog.
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post #8 of 30 Old 07-11-2017, 07:34 AM Thread Starter
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Encouraging to hear. I'll likely skip the sleeves then. Gear wise I'm kinda spoiled on 4.10 on these relatively light (almost) 35s. I love highway and city driving isn't so tightly wound. Offroad seems slightly easier to feather the throttle (as much as you can without a cable lol) with the help of superchip.

So I guess I'll just buy some Rubi shafts and Ujoints and add them to the break bag.. You guys saved me some coin! Thanks guys!

Ton of shit, and not listing it all..
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post #9 of 30 Old 07-11-2017, 07:41 AM Thread Starter
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Nucleo, You've truly outdone yourself on that response. Should be placed in a Jeep upgrade survival manual. It probably took awhile to write as well and I truly appreciate the effort. You and the others have truly did us a favor on the forum and we appreciate the shared experiences.. Thanks again for all your help.

Ton of shit, and not listing it all..
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post #10 of 30 Old 07-11-2017, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tierhog View Post
Nucleo, You've truly outdone yourself on that response. Should be placed in a Jeep upgrade survival manual. It probably took awhile to write as well and I truly appreciate the effort. You and the others have truly did us a favor on the forum and we appreciate the shared experiences.. Thanks again for all your help.
You are welcome. Actually it was not hard to write as I have sent the same basic concepts to a number of people on this forum via PM, after they post a question similar to yours. The reason I did it via PM is that I didn't want to get into another food fight with people who are just adamant that 37s will bend axles even on dry pavement. And there seems to be plenty of them out there. I have several thank you PMs back from people who spent their money are more important upgrades.

I don't care anymore if people want to vehemently disagree. That is fine. I won't be drawn into any more ridiculous arguments with people who are defending something they read and I am defending 9 years of hard wheeling in a JK. And I am "paying it forward". When I bought my first JKUR my intention was to upgrade the axles to a ProRock 44 / 60 combo. The guy at my local 4x4 shop said "why don't you go break something first and then come back and order those". I never did go back and thank him for saving me $XXXXX
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post #11 of 30 Old 07-11-2017, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Tierhog View Post
Encouraging to hear. I'll likely skip the sleeves then. Gear wise I'm kinda spoiled on 4.10 on these relatively light (almost) 35s. I love highway and city driving isn't so tightly wound. Offroad seems slightly easier to feather the throttle (as much as you can without a cable lol) with the help of superchip.

So I guess I'll just buy some Rubi shafts and Ujoints and add them to the break bag.. You guys saved me some coin! Thanks guys!
I have some 200 mile rear Rubi shafts if you want some spares for the rear....................
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post #12 of 30 Old 07-11-2017, 09:53 AM
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I've seen more axles bend to pot holes than trail damage.

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post #13 of 30 Old 07-11-2017, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nucleophile View Post
I have some 200 mile rear Rubi shafts if you want some spares for the rear....................
Might take you up on it lol... I'd rather eat a shaft or Ujoints then grenade a R&P.. Lol

Ton of shit, and not listing it all..
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post #14 of 30 Old 07-11-2017, 03:27 PM
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After watching my father-in-law, in his CJ7 on 38x15.5r15s Mickey Thompsons and the factory D30 and AMC 20 with detroits front and rear plus a LS1, never break anything in Colorado or Utah I'm in the "break it before you upgrade it" boat. Plus it's a lot easier to explain to the wife why I need to spend another chunk of the savings account lol
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post #15 of 30 Old 07-11-2017, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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Definitely helps to have another perspective on proven trails and equipment. We get barraged with how weak everything is, it's sometimes difficult to filter the truths from fantasy. I'd love to take a rest.. Been nonstop since 2015. Looking forward to reliable 4wheelin and a break from the upgrades (for a few months anyway..)

Ton of shit, and not listing it all..
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post #16 of 30 Old 07-11-2017, 05:36 PM
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I agree with Nucleophile. I recently have had 2 d30's in the shop that have hit something at speed. Both of them bent the center section, both broke the welds and actually bent the cast housing. Sleeves or gussets would not have helped. One thing I did find interesting was that the C's were not damaged at all. It makes me wonder if you did gusset the C's how would that help? I mean where the tube meets the housing is where the shock load got transmitted.
I think a lot of people are told they bent their C's or tubes because they get a alignment with their new tires and the specs are way out. Well guess what, they come way out from new. Both of these axles I replaced went on the rack before they hit the road and were not where I would've liked but that is how they come.

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post #17 of 30 Old 07-11-2017, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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True... I auto gusseted. It's almost as if some of the cheaper things are easier to do, even if only occasionally warranted.

Ton of shit, and not listing it all..
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post #18 of 30 Old 07-12-2017, 08:06 AM
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We have just over 53000 miles on our 2012 2 door Rubicon. Installed 35" tires with 1,5" wheel spacers and a 2,5" spacer lift at 5000 miles and drove it like that till 29000 miles. At this point we upgrade to ATX slabs with 3,5" back spacing and 37" tires and a 3,5" lift.

Axles are stock Rubicon with 4:10. Stock ball joints were change to Synergy at time of lift and 37" due to some play in the stock ball joints. Decided to do some C-gussets at that time too. Did I need too?? Maybe not but since the ball joints were taken out it sounds like the right time to do it.

Have not bend or brake anything on the axle and the Jeep get used a lot. I don't like to wheel hop it at all. As soon as that happens, I stop and adjust my line. I also don't go fast on dirt roads.

My friend who likes to go fast on dirt roads snap his stock frond Rubicon axle in half on a dirt road on 35" tires. Seed does kill. I would like to have a set of D60's under the Jeep but till I brake the axle, that money will pay for other things around the house.
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post #19 of 30 Old 07-12-2017, 08:59 AM Thread Starter
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I'll never understand the "PreRunner" concept with a jeep. I understand momentum and the sand, but she's just too damn heavy and stiff for such endeavors...

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post #20 of 30 Old 07-12-2017, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tierhog View Post
I'll never understand the "PreRunner" concept with a jeep. I understand momentum and the sand, but she's just too damn heavy and stiff for such endeavors...
Exactly.............that is what Craptors are for!!!
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post #21 of 30 Old 07-14-2017, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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Like your approach. Anytime your in the central valley headed east to wheel and you need another, let me know.. Its pretty dead here.

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post #22 of 30 Old 07-20-2017, 01:00 PM
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Nucleophile, I appreciate your info. Reading WOL you'd think the axles and especially the Cs bend just rolling off the shop lift.

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post #23 of 30 Old 07-20-2017, 01:47 PM
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Excellent thread OP and @Nucleophile thanks for the awesome feedback and realistic comments, good to hear for a change
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post #24 of 30 Old 07-20-2017, 02:43 PM
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I have run trails rated a solid 7 in Hurricane, Double Sammy on stock axles. I was stock, even to the point of being on stock ball joints. I am curious though, I have gone to a trussed axle front and am curious @thedirtman what a proper truss looks like. I know mine looks pretty solid. But looks can be deceptive.
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post #25 of 30 Old 07-20-2017, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
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Excellent thread OP and @Nucleophile thanks for the awesome feedback and realistic comments, good to hear for a change
Thank you. Well.. thank all of you really. We really need some fresh air and success stories out there. Let's enjoy these Jeeps instead of slaving over them non stop ?
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