Throttle input lag - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 05-15-2017, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
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Throttle input lag

After almost 20k miles of driving my jeep (12 2 door manual) the lag from the gas pedal has driven me nuts. I've never stalled a vehicle as much as I have with my JK. With the fact that I've owned a lifted manual truck before with 33's and a lot less HP than my jeep has, and that this is far from my first manual vehicle, I can't chalk it up to me just being bad and driving a manual vehicle.

After seeing an ad for a throttle response tuner for another type of vehicle(and never knowing something like that exists) I did some digging around on forums. Apparently this is a common issue people have with their JK wranglers. Most people say those tuners that only affect the throttle response don't even work but everyone who has actually bought and used one said its night and day difference. But for $300, its a hard pill to swallow.

Screwing around with my data logger I came across this.



each line is 1/10th of a second. the second line in throttle input percentage, and the 3rd line is RPM. *NOTE* the RPM was logged 1k higher than it really was. No idea why it did this since when I had it set to .5 second intervals right before this log, it was fine so the 1692 rpm is really 692 rpm (idle rpm)

This test was just sitting in neutral and revving the engine.

I also have video I took late at night showing me pressing down on the gas and then you hear the engine rpm increase a moment later.
I'm also able while driving in gear to step on the gas and let go quickly without any input going to the engine. I'm able to press the gas about 3/4ths of the way down and not have any response from the vehicle.
(i'm not sure how I can upload these videos yet)

I do not believe any of my sensors are bad since it seems to be a common issue from what I understand.

Does anyone else experience this? I tried the whole re-calibration test thingy they say you can do but that did nothing.

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post #2 of 20 Old 05-15-2017, 11:27 AM
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post #3 of 20 Old 05-16-2017, 06:05 AM
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not having any cable from pedal to throttle assembly wigged me out at first but then I accepted it . Ironically, with fully electronic / computer controlled accelerator on these, they COULD have programmed them more aggressively but not the case . I know some guys have bought these add on throttle pedal ' booster' devices that evidently bring timing of the accelerator up by a few 10ths of a second but I've never desired one because I'd much rather have very slow to come on throttle for how I use mine. But, when I used to DD it I wouldn't have minded quicker throttle.

When you say you calibrated, how did you do so? The Start position pedal mash or sloooow depress then slow letup ? I ask because I had best results by the immediate mash the moment the dash lights went off versus a slow to the floor depressing then letup. Just curious how you calibrated it.


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post #4 of 20 Old 05-16-2017, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j3ff3ry_j33p View Post
not having any cable from pedal to throttle assembly wigged me out at first but then I accepted it . Ironically, with fully electronic / computer controlled accelerator on these, they COULD have programmed them more aggressively but not the case . I know some guys have bought these add on throttle pedal ' booster' devices that evidently bring timing of the accelerator up by a few 10ths of a second but I've never desired one because I'd much rather have very slow to come on throttle for how I use mine. But, when I used to DD it I wouldn't have minded quicker throttle.

When you say you calibrated, how did you do so? The Start position pedal mash or sloooow depress then slow letup ? I ask because I had best results by the immediate mash the moment the dash lights went off versus a slow to the floor depressing then letup. Just curious how you calibrated it.
I have not heard about the mash method, can you explain more?
I tried the "slow" method I guess you can call it. didn't do S***

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post #5 of 20 Old 05-16-2017, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by mvjeeper View Post
I have not heard about the mash method, can you explain more?
I tried the "slow" method I guess you can call it. didn't do S***
I only heard or noticed the 'slow depress' method a few years ago. Prior to that, and what I have tried which puportedly defaults the ECM settings for the thottle positioning 'learned' driving is to turn the ignition on, wait for the dash lights to go out, and as soon after that as you can, stomp the throttle pedal fully to floor and release as quick only once ,firmly and fast. Then turn the key back off.
It definitely resets it to learn your driving habits anew but I am unsure if "the faster you push it in the more throttle response you get" part.
It is just a reset procedure that clears memory for the TPS, I am thinking.
But, I have sensed it made a bit of difference.
I would look at the throttle pedal add on booster , SPrintBooster I think it is called. Someone made another , I think called Throttle Commander but I do not run them. Try it


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post #6 of 20 Old 05-16-2017, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j3ff3ry_j33p View Post
not having any cable from pedal to throttle assembly wigged me out at first but then I accepted it . Ironically, with fully electronic / computer controlled accelerator on these, they COULD have programmed them more aggressively but not the case . I know some guys have bought these add on throttle pedal ' booster' devices that evidently bring timing of the accelerator up by a few 10ths of a second but I've never desired one because I'd much rather have very slow to come on throttle for how I use mine. But, when I used to DD it I wouldn't have minded quicker throttle.

When you say you calibrated, how did you do so? The Start position pedal mash or sloooow depress then slow letup ? I ask because I had best results by the immediate mash the moment the dash lights went off versus a slow to the floor depressing then letup. Just curious how you calibrated it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by j3ff3ry_j33p View Post
I only heard or noticed the 'slow depress' method a few years ago. Prior to that, and what I have tried which puportedly defaults the ECM settings for the thottle positioning 'learned' driving is to turn the ignition on, wait for the dash lights to go out, and as soon after that as you can, stomp the throttle pedal fully to floor and release as quick only once ,firmly and fast. Then turn the key back off.
It definitely resets it to learn your driving habits anew but I am unsure if "the faster you push it in the more throttle response you get" part.
It is just a reset procedure that clears memory for the TPS, I am thinking.
But, I have sensed it made a bit of difference.
I would look at the throttle pedal add on booster , SPrintBooster I think it is called. Someone made another , I think called Throttle Commander but I do not run them. Try it
I gave it a try just before and having yet noticed really anything.
I could buy the sprintbooster or w/e its called but for $300, its a big pill to swallow.

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post #7 of 20 Old 05-16-2017, 04:32 PM
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(edit: fwiw , I've done this fast stomp on mine , turned it off and when back on I swear it has altered my throttle response. It may be finesse or just model variation but it isnt heresay

anyway)
I have an idea:
iirc - I may be crazy and memory deficient ,mind you - one of our fellow members may run one or maybe has run one of them ...
@kjeeper10
Ken, don't you run a Sprint booster ?


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Last edited by j3ff3ry_j33p; 05-16-2017 at 04:35 PM.
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post #8 of 20 Old 05-16-2017, 06:33 PM
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I've been using the Superchips flashpaq for about 3 years now on my '08 JK 6spd. Realize it's the older engine but it did eliminate the throttle lag; it probably would for the newer JKs too. Don't take this as an endorsement though - you're right it is/was expensive and has a bunch of features I almost never use anyway. At this point, my unit is just correcting the speedo for 35s (and fixing the throttle response lol). Just for giggles, every once in a while I'll let the brake booster line suck 1/2 bottle of Seafoam; the Flashpaq helps keep the rpm up a bit for that...
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post #9 of 20 Old 05-18-2017, 06:27 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j3ff3ry_j33p View Post


(edit: fwiw , I've done this fast stomp on mine , turned it off and when back on I swear it has altered my throttle response. It may be finesse or just model variation but it isnt heresay

anyway)
I have an idea:
iirc - I may be crazy and memory deficient ,mind you - one of our fellow members may run one or maybe has run one of them ...
@kjeeper10
Ken, don't you run a Sprint booster ?
I'm going to end up running a tuner eventually since I can alter my fan temp speed and throttle response plus the 1,000,000whp they all claim to add but i've heard horror stories about bricking the ECU and I do have 125k warranty that i'd like to not void lol

also while I don't mind spending money on the jeep (trust me I already have sadly) $300 just to give it a better throttle response is a lot for a little. and $500 for a tuner to get a few hp more and change fan speeds, ehh.

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Last edited by mvjeeper; 05-18-2017 at 06:29 AM.
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post #10 of 20 Old 07-07-2017, 02:30 PM
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Superchips Flashcal (not as expensive as the Flashpaq) allows you to recalibrate for tire sizes, gears etc, and also has some other options on it, but also one of the benefits is it resets shift points as well as fixes that accelerator lag
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post #11 of 20 Old 12-08-2017, 09:03 PM
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Does using flash cal/flaspaq void factory warranty?


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post #12 of 20 Old 12-08-2017, 09:23 PM
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Does using flash cal/flaspaq void factory warranty?


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No.


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post #13 of 20 Old 12-08-2017, 09:24 PM
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No.







Thank you. Just bought my Jeep and new tires and am nervous about doing too much to it. LOL


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post #14 of 20 Old 12-08-2017, 10:22 PM
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I bought a Peddle Commander for my Rubicon Recon, which does a terrific job of making the Pentastar 285HP feel more like 350HP. Respond is great!

https://www.pedalcommander.com/

Retains factory warranty ... so even though my Recon is brand new, I feel good about using it. Four major and 8 sub settings for each major, which you can change at any time.

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post #15 of 20 Old 12-09-2017, 07:30 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RubiconRecon View Post
I bought a Peddle Commander for my Rubicon Recon, which does a terrific job of making the Pentastar 285HP feel more like 350HP. Respond is great!

https://www.pedalcommander.com/

Retains factory warranty ... so even though my Recon is brand new, I feel good about using it. Four major and 8 sub settings for each major, which you can change at any time.
looks pretty good but at $300 it seems to do the same thing other programmers do for similar price.

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post #16 of 20 Old 12-20-2017, 02:09 AM
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looks pretty good but at $300 it seems to do the same thing other programmers do for similar price.
The newer-than-2015 Jeeps are a pain to reprogram though. The ECU's are fairly complex so that might limit your search.

I have a Bully Dog tuner on my JK (2011, 3.8 6 speed) and a friend of mine has a Flashpaq on his (2013, 3.6 6 Speed). We both cranked the pedal response way high on the tuners just for shits. It made mine a lot better, I can rev match my downshifts a lot nicer than before (quick clutch, gas punch, shift) so I left it and I'm happy. On his, it made the throttle so damn touchy that it was kind of a pain to drive. He backed his off a few notches and it's a lot nicer now. His JK is on 37's, 4.56's, CAI and exhaust. Mine is on 36's, stock gearing (that's getting fixed as I type) with a K&N drop in filter and exhaust.

One big one... did you turn off the hill assist? I drove a manual vehicle forever and when I jumped in the JK for the first time, I stalled on a hill because of that stupid system. A lot of new vehicles have different versions of it... my dad's '16 Mustang has it as well. I stalled that the first time I drove it too. That one had the system turned off with 126 km's on the odometer (I picked the car up at the dealership for him when he bought it new cause I'm son of the year) and it has never been back on.

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post #17 of 20 Old 12-21-2017, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 2Door View Post
The newer-than-2015 Jeeps are a pain to reprogram though. The ECU's are fairly complex so that might limit your search.

I have a Bully Dog tuner on my JK (2011, 3.8 6 speed) and a friend of mine has a Flashpaq on his (2013, 3.6 6 Speed). We both cranked the pedal response way high on the tuners just for shits. It made mine a lot better, I can rev match my downshifts a lot nicer than before (quick clutch, gas punch, shift) so I left it and I'm happy. On his, it made the throttle so damn touchy that it was kind of a pain to drive. He backed his off a few notches and it's a lot nicer now. His JK is on 37's, 4.56's, CAI and exhaust. Mine is on 36's, stock gearing (that's getting fixed as I type) with a K&N drop in filter and exhaust.

One big one... did you turn off the hill assist? I drove a manual vehicle forever and when I jumped in the JK for the first time, I stalled on a hill because of that stupid system. A lot of new vehicles have different versions of it... my dad's '16 Mustang has it as well. I stalled that the first time I drove it too. That one had the system turned off with 126 km's on the odometer (I picked the car up at the dealership for him when he bought it new cause I'm son of the year) and it has never been back on.
Mine is a 12 so first year of the 3.6. I did turn off hill assist basically as soon as I bought it.
I do plan on buying one but when I do I want to make sure it can adjust other things like the fan turn on temp.

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post #18 of 20 Old 12-21-2017, 12:05 PM
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ive tried the booster before and hated it. it didn't improve throttle response but instead tricks your mind thinking it is. Its like 1/4 throttle is 3/4 throttle and made slow precise throttle input difficult.

The Superchip tuner on my 09 did improve throttle response and im still using it to this day.

Another thing you can do is from a stop try blipping the throttle. Small blip, then add throttle while disengaging clutch and go. its what i do for about every vehicle with drive by wire. get it right and u will have a smooth fast clutch engagement.

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post #19 of 20 Old 12-21-2017, 01:38 PM
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I do the throttle blip too. My JK built that habit, my girlfriends Hyundai Elantra (which has the worst drive by wire ever) reaaaally benefits from that as well.

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post #20 of 20 Old 12-23-2017, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris85xlt View Post
ive tried the booster before and hated it. it didn't improve throttle response but instead tricks your mind thinking it is. Its like 1/4 throttle is 3/4 throttle and made slow precise throttle input difficult.

The Superchip tuner on my 09 did improve throttle response and im still using it to this day.

Another thing you can do is from a stop try blipping the throttle. Small blip, then add throttle while disengaging clutch and go. its what i do for about every vehicle with drive by wire. get it right and u will have a smooth fast clutch engagement.
its what I have to do all the time. Did it with my friends next too me and they said "stop honda frogging your jeep" made me sad.

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