Winch Capacity v Snatch Block Capicity - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 39 Old 01-14-2017, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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Winch Capacity v Snatch Block Capicity

I have it on good authority that winch capacity should be 1.5 times the Jeep GVW. Getting mixed info on snatch block rating/capacity. On the one hand it should equal the winch capacity and on the other hand it should be at least twice the winch capacity, so a 9000 lb winch would require an 18000 lb snatch block. Or are both rules of thumb wrong?

What is the proper rule of thumb?

P.S. Yes, I can't spell capacity twice in the heading

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post #2 of 39 Old 01-14-2017, 12:30 PM
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The proper "Rule of thumb" is that you can beat your wife with a stick no bigger around than your thumb. As for the Winch/snatch block stuff, I'll let other fellas answer that...

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post #3 of 39 Old 01-14-2017, 12:41 PM
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Sorry, I'm a smart-ass. From all I've read and the times I've used winch/snatch block, from what I understand, you basically double the pulling power of your winch with snatch block, so, you will need to make sure the snatch block can handle double the pulling power of the rope/cable on the winch. Also, you have to make sure the rope/cable on the winch can handle twice the pulling power of your winch, as well. If you have a 8000# winch, you will want a 16,000# snatch block, and the rope/cable should be rated to handle the same, if not a little more, to err on the side of caution. If I'm mistaken, I'm sure these fine folks will set us both straight!

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post #4 of 39 Old 01-14-2017, 01:20 PM Thread Starter
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Oh lord. Your answer makes more questions. Going to listen for a while though. All smart ass, dumb ass, and no ass comments welcome.
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post #5 of 39 Old 01-14-2017, 01:38 PM
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So what snatch block or D-ring should a person buy? I have no problem buying one that is 2x the rating but I want a good quality. I have seen cables break and couldn't imagine a snatch block letting go.
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post #6 of 39 Old 01-14-2017, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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Good question. Some snatch blocks described for wire ropes, others for wire or synthetic. So will synthetic of same diameter as wire still work with the blocks that say wire and don't reference synthetic?

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post #7 of 39 Old 01-14-2017, 03:24 PM
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To throw some more mud in the water:
I was always taught the sheave diameter for hoisting rope was 30 times the rope dia., but I took a 32 hour rigging basics course last year where the test answer was 20 times rope dia....but one might have been for a block and the other for the main sheave.
This is because the rope turning too tight can fatigue the line.
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post #8 of 39 Old 01-14-2017, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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coilrod, where can I sign up for your Physics Class?

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post #9 of 39 Old 01-14-2017, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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Dave Logan, where are you?

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post #10 of 39 Old 01-14-2017, 05:08 PM
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Only mentioned it because my trail gear is 17 000 pounds iirc for up to 3/8" line and I think it is 6" or so at pulley. There are smaller ones out there.
I would not buy less than Crosby shackles.

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Last edited by coilrod; 01-14-2017 at 05:13 PM. Reason: Because you cant spend money if you die.
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post #11 of 39 Old 01-14-2017, 06:18 PM
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It depends.

Think how you want to use a winch.

A guy who is planning on pulling a jeep buried to the axles will want a different setup than a guy who needs a winch to bump him over an obstacle.

For example, I run a relatively low capacity Warn winch with only 80' of synthetic rope. We have trees or hard points every few feet here Oregon. The shorter rope allows me to not be super careful on rewind so the rope doesn't get into the drum supports. The shorter rope also gets me down to the lower wraps where there winch can pull more.

I wanted the 156:1 ratio for the high line speed. It helps prevent overrunning the rope and rewinds fast. Smaller winch is also lighter. Didn't need a big heavy brick way out front and high.

My Jeep and offroad style doesn't require any huge pulls. Just a little help to assist through the occasional low traction obstacle. I have never needed a snatch block.

So think about how you will be using your winch and go from there.

:-)
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post #12 of 39 Old 01-14-2017, 06:23 PM
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I've been told the Snatch block should be rated for winch capacity not the doubling factor. i.e. 12K winch 12K pulley... But thats not what it looks like here.. I go see what i can dig up
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post #13 of 39 Old 01-14-2017, 06:47 PM
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Heres a good read from Pirate.. Pirate4x4.Com - Extreme Four Wheel Drive

An interesting paragraph from this article:

Calculating the force of a recovery operation:

This is a critical step in both the conduct of a winch recovery (because you need to be absolutely sure that EVERY single piece of equipment used in the task is strong enough and will not fail and thereby endanger life and limb), and in the selection/purchase and decision to use a piece of recovery equipment. It is a calculation where, quite frankly, the manufacturer's recommendations are woefully inadequate. Why? Simply because if they let you in on how large the forces really are, it would leave you realizing that they are unable to economically produce a winch of sufficient capacity in anything resembling a small, light, or economical enough package. They get away with it, because, as I said, there are virtually no regulations or standards governing the industry. I'm not saying all 4x4 winches are inadequate, dangerous, or useless. But I am saying that the forces involved are often much greater than the manufacturer's would have you believe, and you will be far more capable and SAFER if you approach your 4x4 recovery KNOWING THIS, and knowing the real numbers. Realize, that for reasons of practicality and economics, your 4x4 recovery equipment is almost certainly undersized.....you can still do the job, using the correct techniques, but you will be much SAFER if you keep this in mind. Enough of the pre-amble.

Most, if not all, winch manufacturers will tell you to select a winch based on 1.5 times the gross vehicle weight. This often leads to less than satisfactory results for 2 reasons:

1) Most people are terrible at actually estimating the gross weight of their rig as it sits on the trail, full of gas, tools, equipment, food, camping gear, people, the dog...everything. Heck, in some cases the real figure can actually exceed the GVWR of the vehicle. Simple advice here - either err WAY on the heavy side, or get your rig weighed in trail trim.

2) More importantly, the "effective weight" of a "stuck" 4x4 is very often FAR more than 1.5 times the GVW. The following data on how to more accurately estimate the "effective weight", is taken from the world of professional heavy recovery - the guys that recover Tractor-trailers that have flipped on their side for instance, as well as U.S., Canadian, and UK Military recovery manuals.
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post #14 of 39 Old 01-14-2017, 07:10 PM
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this is how Warn rated their Epic line of snatch blocks..

https://www.warn.com/truck/accessori...natchblock.jsp
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post #15 of 39 Old 01-14-2017, 07:11 PM
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Winch Capacity v Snatch Block Capicity

Double post.

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08 Black and Khaki JK Sahara Unlimited, Dual Tops, MyGig, Tow pkg, Trax-Lok Rear Diff,
Mods -- 3.5" Rock Krawler front springs, 2.5 TerraFlex BB rear, Mopar D44HD/J8, OX Locker, RCVs, 37x12.50x17 Pitbull Rockers on ProComp 7069, AEV Premium front bumper, Smittybilt X2O 12K Comp winch.

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post #16 of 39 Old 01-15-2017, 05:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z-OR View Post
It depends.

For example, I run a relatively low capacity Warn winch with only 80' of synthetic rope. We have trees or hard points every few feet here Oregon. The shorter rope allows me to not be super careful on rewind so the rope doesn't get into the drum supports. The shorter rope also gets me down to the lower wraps where there winch can pull more. :-)
Interesting. For similar reasons I chose a Warn 9.0RC winch recommended by a friend. 216:1, 54 lbs and 50 ft of rope. It's my first winch. Remains to be seen if the choice proves itself in the field. Given past experience I'm good with it.

2013 JKR, Auto, Yukon 4.56, Goodyear MTR/K 35/12.5/17 on XD222 KMC Enduro Beadlocks,Teraflex Big Brakes & Spare Carrier, Warn RC Winch, Metalcloak Front & Rear Bumpers, Metalcloak Overliner Flares & Front Inner Fenders w/ Corner Guards/Tail Lamps, Metalcloak Game Changer 2.5" w/6-Pac's, ARB Diff Covers & Onboard Air, AFE High Tuck Muffler, Front Lower Control Arm Skids, Artec Aluminum Skid System, Poison Spyder Hood Vents, Ripp SC.

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post #17 of 39 Old 01-15-2017, 05:24 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtphoto JK View Post
this is how Warn rated their Epic line of snatch blocks..

https://www.warn.com/truck/accessori...natchblock.jsp
Thanks. This is the first set of blocks I've found that clearly states which one should be used for stated winch capacities..........and that either wire or synthetic is okay. Given the other responses to my question, the overall reasoning to arrive at rated capacity of Winch v Snatch Block remains cloudy. Warn's statement is clear and I assume can be trusted?

2013 JKR, Auto, Yukon 4.56, Goodyear MTR/K 35/12.5/17 on XD222 KMC Enduro Beadlocks,Teraflex Big Brakes & Spare Carrier, Warn RC Winch, Metalcloak Front & Rear Bumpers, Metalcloak Overliner Flares & Front Inner Fenders w/ Corner Guards/Tail Lamps, Metalcloak Game Changer 2.5" w/6-Pac's, ARB Diff Covers & Onboard Air, AFE High Tuck Muffler, Front Lower Control Arm Skids, Artec Aluminum Skid System, Poison Spyder Hood Vents, Ripp SC.

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post #18 of 39 Old 01-15-2017, 05:32 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtphoto JK View Post
I've been told the Snatch block should be rated for winch capacity not the doubling factor. i.e. 12K winch 12K pulley... But thats not what it looks like here.. I go see what i can dig up
Yep! Your diagram poses more questions to me than it answers. Truly murky ground we walk.

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post #19 of 39 Old 01-15-2017, 06:41 AM
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i don't feel like nor have tons of time to invest in thinking about it so I went & bought a couple of these ( before they redid the website but same product ) back when they were $20 and have carried them with my recovery kit every since. I use them occasionally but mostly to recover others. One of those affixed to a tree allowed my RR 10.5k to deadpull a XJ full of water out of a 9' deep hole so I think they are more than ample. I also have triple shackled a 110' poplar tree off a trail with them .


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post #20 of 39 Old 01-15-2017, 07:25 AM
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That image is wrong. Where did that come from?
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post #21 of 39 Old 01-15-2017, 10:45 AM
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the thing they left out on the Picture was the guy is using harbor freight rings and tree strap.
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post #22 of 39 Old 01-15-2017, 12:55 PM
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I'm diggin' the thinkin' on a short line for trail use. Makes sense all around.

I currently run a Warn 8s with their 12K Epic snatch block and full length of line to facilitate use on numerous stumps I've been pullin'.
The bumper failed...

When I finish the job, there may be a shorter length of line left as the Jeep goes from work mode to play mode. Prolly get another snatch block, tree strap and shackle for off-line pulls on the trail, too. However, as I see the possibility to make road recoveries in snow conditions, the full length can stay as long as it's serviceable.
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post #23 of 39 Old 01-15-2017, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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I don't want to subvert the thread subject, but the guy that recommended the short line winch said to add a recovery strap to the line if necessary, although he had never had to do so. Looks like I will be going to the Warn 12K also.

2013 JKR, Auto, Yukon 4.56, Goodyear MTR/K 35/12.5/17 on XD222 KMC Enduro Beadlocks,Teraflex Big Brakes & Spare Carrier, Warn RC Winch, Metalcloak Front & Rear Bumpers, Metalcloak Overliner Flares & Front Inner Fenders w/ Corner Guards/Tail Lamps, Metalcloak Game Changer 2.5" w/6-Pac's, ARB Diff Covers & Onboard Air, AFE High Tuck Muffler, Front Lower Control Arm Skids, Artec Aluminum Skid System, Poison Spyder Hood Vents, Ripp SC.

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post #24 of 39 Old 01-16-2017, 08:14 AM
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The snatch block should have at least double the capacity of the winch because they can be used for double lining.
Double lining is a technique where you run the winch line from the winch through a snatch block and back to the Jeep's tow point.
This technique doubles the pulling power of the winch and halves the winch line speed.
If a Jeep is heavily mired in mud or is off the trail and needs to be pulled uphill, double lining works well.
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post #25 of 39 Old 01-16-2017, 10:58 PM
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Two things I haven't seen mentioned are the critical amp draw and the loss of pull per wrap of the cable/rope. Superwinch has an excellent write up on their site that may answer a lot of questions.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/07...71070550874440

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