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post #1 of 73 Old 08-17-2008, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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This jeep was brought into our service department and to our surprise these balljoints are within Jeep spec. Jeep spec is .50 and these were found to be .34. As a jeep dealer if the warranty claim is denied the customer would have to pay for the repair. Just to answer some obvious questions, The Jeep District service manager was involved and stands by Jeep Spec. The customer thinks this is bad customer service, why should the dealer be responsible for jeeps decission.


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post #2 of 73 Old 08-17-2008, 09:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jdemonto View Post
This jeep was brought into our service department and to our surprise these balljoints are within Jeep spec. Jeep spec is .50 and these were found to be .34. As a jeep dealer if the warranty claim is denied the customer would have to pay for the repair. Just to answer some obvious questions, The Jeep District service manager was involved and stands by Jeep Spec. The customer thinks this is bad customer service, why should the dealer be responsible for jeeps decission.

Simple...the customer is always right, even when he's wrong...if they are within spec, then there should be NO CHARGE nor ANY REPAIR made...hence no charge to the customer. I'm amazed how Chrysler is still screwing with their customer base...this $hit used to be their trademark in the 70's, and it appears it continues, even when it is a BUYER'S MARKET...need to stay in business...take care of the customer.
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post #3 of 73 Old 08-17-2008, 09:08 AM
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This is on a jeep WITH airock?

i personally think they are bad and should be replaced. I am not sure on spec or even a real way to measure that.

I do believe your dealership can warranty anything and depending on the customer if he did oil changes etc. there I would squeeze him through.

BUT, back to he does have Airock. Which I think would have accelerated the joints wear.

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post #4 of 73 Old 08-17-2008, 09:11 AM
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i don't give a rat's ass what the "tech" says the play in those joints is. that is not safe and they need to be replaced.

it is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE to accurately get calipers in there to measure the play in the joint, but if it is that visible, they are bad!
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post #5 of 73 Old 08-17-2008, 09:15 AM
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I pretty much go to the dealer assuming they aren't gonna fix a damn thing for me. I have to go to another dealer now try to get my ****ing clutch fixed. It creaks like crazy when you depress the pedal..oh..that's normal sir..normal my ass.

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post #6 of 73 Old 08-17-2008, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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i don't give a rat's ass what the "tech" says the play in those joints is. that is not safe and they need to be replaced.

it is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE to accurately get calipers in there to measure the play in the joint, but if it is that visible, they are bad!

These balljoints were measured accurately, I am not a tech so I can not say what tool was used to measure. Now this thread was posted for informational purposes, not dealer bashing. In the end the dealer would love to fix your jeeps, however if jeep denies a claim I do not think the dealer should work for free. Now also take into account that this jeep was used on moderate trails and has an airrock suspension and 35's wheather that makes a difference or not who knows. The Airrock and other mods were not blamed for this denial. I obviously own a jeep LJ that has some warranty left and I am treated as if I am a customer not an employee. I also know that sometimes asking warrantee to fix something does not always fair to my advantage, So I pay and get the problem fixed. So if you actually wheel your jeep and a part wears out prematurly is the customer responsible? Maybe?

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post #7 of 73 Old 08-17-2008, 09:38 AM
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But when you buy the Jeep the dealership will promise you the World. Just make sure that you get everything in writing before you buy it. Most dealerships will go back on their word; they are in it for the money. I have also seen dealerships take a vehicle that was out of warranty and fix the problem and use someone else’s warranty to cover it. So the dealership can do what they want to do and fix what they want to fix.
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post #8 of 73 Old 08-17-2008, 10:28 AM
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if its in speck and can 100% guaranteed that it is (maybe bring in a corp. tech?) then no I do not think the dealership should fix it. Sure, please the customer, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. IF the dealership fixed everything brought in then our Jeeps would have to cost way more to cover the cost. If corporate says its not a warranty claim then they won’t pay for it so it comes down to the customer pays or the dealer pays for it. If it isn’t the dealers fault, Jeeps fault, why should they pay for it?


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post #9 of 73 Old 08-17-2008, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by jdemonto View Post
So if you actually wheel your jeep and a part wears out prematurly is the customer responsible? Maybe?

Jason
jeep advertises it as an off-road vehicle, shows pictures of it rock crawling, driving through water, gives it a sway-bar disconnect and a 4:1 transfer case then DENY WARRANTY CLAIMS BECAUSE THE VEHICLE HAS SIGNS IT HAS BEEN OFF-ROAD!!!

this is pretty much the norm. not the exception. jeep needs to have their asses handed to them by a tort lawyer through a class-action lawsuit.


the word "warranty" is a dirty word to service centers. if he weren't wanting to have it replaced under warranty, i guarantee you that the service department would say the ball joints were bad and need to be replaced. but, since he wants them replaced under warranty, the dealership and chrysler rep are saying that the ball joints are still good.

i would be willing to bet that if he took his jeep to 10 service centers (without mentioning the dirty "W" word) and asked those service centers if the ball joints were bad, they would all say "yes."

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post #10 of 73 Old 08-17-2008, 12:02 PM
 
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jeep advertises it as an off-road vehicle, shows pictures of it rock crawling, driving through water, gives it a sway-bar disconnect and a 4:1 transfer case then DENY WARRANTY CLAIMS BECAUSE THE VEHICLE HAS SIGNS IT HAS BEEN OFF-ROAD!!!

this is pretty much the norm. not the exception. jeep needs to have their asses handed to them by a tort lawyer through a class-action lawsuit.


the word "warranty" is a dirty word to service centers. if he weren't wanting to have it replaced under warranty, i guarantee you that the service department would say the ball joints were bad and need to be replaced. but, since he wants them replaced under warranty, the dealership and chrysler rep are saying that the ball joints are still good.

i would be willing to bet that if he took his jeep to 10 service centers (without mentioning the dirty "W" word) and asked those service centers if the ball joints were bad, they would all say "yes."

Once in a blue moon, I will agree with some of the things you post....advertise it as a ready to rock on the rocks right out of the box, then they should fix it like an offroad vehicle.
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post #11 of 73 Old 08-17-2008, 12:18 PM
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post #12 of 73 Old 08-17-2008, 01:38 PM
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...The customer thinks this is bad customer service, why should the dealer be responsible for jeeps decission.
Why shouldn't they? At the minimum the dealer is a business partner with Chrysler. Sorry, in the court of public opinion you cannot wash your hands by allowing someone further up the chain be the bad guy. The customer doesn't and shouldn't have to try to make the differentiation. As far as most are concerned dealers are part of Chrysler.

With a situation like this the dealer comes to the decision of either eating the cost or making the customer eat the cost? Well, another option is to treat the customer as a partner and explain that Chrysler has refused the repair for these reasons. Then explain that they disagree and are willing to share the cost. Maybe that's a split down the middle or just enough to cover the costs. They'll end up with loyal customers more than not.

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post #13 of 73 Old 08-17-2008, 03:35 PM
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Why shouldn't they? At the minimum the dealer is a business partner with Chrysler. Sorry, in the court of public opinion you cannot wash your hands by allowing someone further up the chain be the bad guy. The customer doesn't and shouldn't have to try to make the differentiation. As far as most are concerned dealers are part of Chrysler.

With a situation like this the dealer comes to the decision of either eating the cost or making the customer eat the cost? Well, another option is to treat the customer as a partner and explain that Chrysler has refused the repair for these reasons. Then explain that they disagree and are willing to share the cost. Maybe that's a split down the middle or just enough to cover the costs. They'll end up with loyal customers more than not.
i would agree, if it weren't for the fact that the dealers pretty much have the final say as to what gets covered under warranty and what doesn't. the "district managers" will almost never go against what the dealer says.

and trust me on this - these service departments have been doing what they do for so long that they know the magic "buzz words" to use to describe a problem to make sure that when they deny warranty work, the "district manager" will agree with the dealership.

i also guarantee you that the district service manager didn't crawl his own ass under the jeep and measure it for himself either. he took the word of the "tech" at the dealership.
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post #14 of 73 Old 08-17-2008, 04:53 PM
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its not bad service on the dealers behalf... trust me, I know the dealer... but..


Its horrible as **** customer service on chrysler's behalf. Blame corporate, not the dealer--just like you dont blame the troops you blame congress.
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post #15 of 73 Old 08-17-2008, 04:58 PM
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its not bad service on the dealers behalf... trust me, I know the dealer... but..


Its horrible as **** customer service on chrysler's behalf. Blame corporate, not the dealer--just like you dont blame the troops you blame congress.
when it comes to decisions on service repairs, it has nothing to do with corporate, and everything to do with the decision the service center makes.

service centers make their own calls, and their goal is to deny as much warranty work as they possibly can, because they get paid a lower rate for warranty work.
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post #16 of 73 Old 08-17-2008, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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I understand where every point is coming from. Now, let me again state if if the jeep was stock and had this issue maybe chrysler could have a problem on thier hands. Jeep advertises stock jeeps running through the mountains and deserts. This jeep in question does have Airrock and does have 35" tires which could have had something to do with this and was wheeled moderatly. Jeep nor The dealer blamed these mods causing the problems after the ditrict manager looked at this jeep personally. I run 37's for 60K miles on a TJ and have not any any balljoints remtely this lose. Where the balljoints defective? Again who knows.

I want to also state that service work is service work in these tough economic times and I am 100% sure if the dealer could have fixed this jeep under warranty they would have as the customer is not paying to fix the jeep.

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post #17 of 73 Old 08-17-2008, 11:26 PM
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I understand where every point is coming from. Now, let me again state if if the jeep was stock and had this issue maybe chrysler could have a problem on thier hands. Jeep advertises stock jeeps running through the mountains and deserts. This jeep in question does have Airrock and does have 35" tires which could have had something to do with this and was wheeled moderatly. Jeep nor The dealer blamed these mods causing the problems after the ditrict manager looked at this jeep personally. I run 37's for 60K miles on a TJ and have not any any balljoints remtely this lose. Where the balljoints defective? Again who knows.

I want to also state that service work is service work in these tough economic times and I am 100% sure if the dealer could have fixed this jeep under warranty they would have as the customer is not paying to fix the jeep.

Jason
I'm really not sure what you are trying to elicit from members here?! So you (your dealership and Jeep corp collectively) denied a warranty claim and one person is unhappy with the decision... so what? There are tons of Jeep dealerships out there that will deny warranty claims and tons others who will fix the same under warranty. If you are that worried about customer service and the negative slant this guy has made a video about of your service, why don't you just fix it for him and ask him to take off the video? I bet in the long run you'll gain a fair more amount of trust and business from the guy and other prospective customers than if you just went about your business looking like a Jeep-un-friendly dealer.

Also, your statement about service work during tough economic times really doesn't help your case here...to me what that statement says is 1. you as a Jeep dealer know that there is a problem with the guy's ball joints and 2. you don't give a crap because you're not making as much and doing as well as you were a year or two years ago so that justifies to yourself that you don't have to fix it.

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post #18 of 73 Old 08-18-2008, 06:10 AM
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So what's the name of the jeep dealer in this video that we are to avoid? Definitely jeep friendly dealers out there and jeep UNfriendly dealers. Ive learned that much.



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post #19 of 73 Old 08-18-2008, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jdemonto View Post
This jeep was brought into our service department and to our surprise these balljoints are within Jeep spec. Jeep spec is .50 and these were found to be .34. As a jeep dealer if the warranty claim is denied the customer would have to pay for the repair. Just to answer some obvious questions, The Jeep District service manager was involved and stands by Jeep Spec. The customer thinks this is bad customer service, why should the dealer be responsible for jeeps decission.

I see a conflict in the info presented, may just be that "damn decimal point". He says at the end of the video that Jeep claims .050" max. Guess he meant .500 (1/2") because it clearly looks like close to 3/8" of lift.

If they do claim .500 is within spec, then what can you do? They are the ones who designed the vehicle and if they say it's ok......?????? That sure looks like a lot of play. How much has been acceptable on past models?

Sounds to me like you're between a rock and a hard place. Of course the customer won't be happy, but if the Jeep rep says .500 is allowable, then it's not worn out is it? I just hope they are right. Doesn't the service manual give limits and procedures for accurate measurement?

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For my money, the most notable part of this thread is all the fallout from bsack's fortune cookie factory explosion.

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post #20 of 73 Old 08-18-2008, 08:04 AM
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So what's the name of the jeep dealer in this video that we are to avoid? Definitely jeep friendly dealers out there and jeep UNfriendly dealers. Ive learned that much.
THis dealer is VERY jeep friendly. I brought up the question on it having airock to him as I have only seen a vehicle loose a few ball joints 3 times!! ALL had AIROCK. none were JKs but they were ALL TJs.

This jeep dealer lifts, mods, and changes jeeps all the time.


*never had any dealing with this dealer. dont even know anyone there really just know about them.

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post #21 of 73 Old 08-18-2008, 08:26 AM
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i bet neither the service manager at the dealer, nor the district manager would want to drive that jeep around a curve on the highway at 70mph with the ball joints that way. i sure wouldn't want to. it's not safe.
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post #22 of 73 Old 08-18-2008, 08:59 AM
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i bet neither the service manager at the dealer, nor the district manager would want to drive that jeep around a curve on the highway at 70mph with the ball joints that way. i sure wouldn't want to. it's not safe.
Being new to Jeeps, I'm not nearly as familiar with straight axle ball joints but it sure looks scary to me... But here again is the problem Airpark is up against. They are not denying the claim based on any other factor than JEEP says it's normal

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This jeep was brought into our service department and to our surprise these balljoints are within Jeep spec. Jeep spec is .50 and these were found to be .34......
I still keep wondering if this is an issue of "damn decimal point". Maybe there is a typo in the service info. .050" I could see, but 1/2" allowable play is just incredible. At 11/32 it already looks scary.

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For my money, the most notable part of this thread is all the fallout from bsack's fortune cookie factory explosion.

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post #23 of 73 Old 08-18-2008, 10:27 AM
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Wow... some of the people here really dont know Airpark very well, or the fact that they are the #1 wrangler dealership in the country.

Let alone that this is a very very very *5 wheeler friendly dealership--hell they even arrange trail runs.

Funny how so many people here jump straight to blaming the dealership... kinda reminds me of JK-forum.....

people think they can start modifying their jeeps and the dealership or chrysler will jump over backwards to fix them when they break or wear prematurely....that just isnt the case, and frankley from any sort of business perspective--shouldnt be the case.

case in point.. someone goes and lifts a jeep that has a D35 and puts 35's on it.... should the dealer repair it? Because its going to break, and we all know that.... It would be great customer service to do.. but a waste of the dealers time and money.
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post #24 of 73 Old 08-18-2008, 11:02 AM
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people think they can start modifying their jeeps and the dealership or chrysler will jump over backwards to fix them when they break or wear prematurely....that just isnt the case, and frankley from any sort of business perspective--shouldnt be the case.
You obviously didn't read everything and are jumping to your own conclusions. The OP made it a point to indicate that service wasn't denied because the vehicle was modified. It was denied because the ball joints are supposedly within spec.

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post #25 of 73 Old 08-18-2008, 11:20 AM
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You obviously didn't read everything and are jumping to your own conclusions. The OP made it a point to indicate that service wasn't denied because the vehicle was modified. It was denied because the ball joints are supposedly within spec.
No... I was just citing an example of what does happen.. Sometimes people expect to be covered even after they have added/modified stock parts.

It wasnt meant to be a blanket statement for this case, again, just another example.
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