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post #1 of 20 Old 04-22-2015, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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Suspension difference question

I am planning to build up a new JK Rubicon Limited to be able to do a little bit of everything when I choose to do so and as such I want the Jeep to be well balanced. I do not plan to do any rock crawling not my thing, however I am used to driving big Ford's with big V8's but I am brand new to the Jeep JK vehicle and have some questions.

I am very familiar with truck suspensions but the Ford's I'm used to are not using long arm setups like on the Jeeps so my question is if driving the Jeep on long distance drives can the long arm suspension pose any issues?

I'm planning to do a 4" lift and use 35's and is the stock gear ratio enough to power this or should I change gear ratio and if so to what?

The Jeep is not a daily driver so I can pretty much do whatever I want but most important is not to make it too much off-road where it becomes no fun to cruise in

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post #2 of 20 Old 04-22-2015, 05:44 PM
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A 4 inch lift is too high for 35s - they will look like Cheerios. 2.5 would be fine for the type of wheeling you describe. JKs dont "need" long arm suspensions either. For 35s on a "mostly cruising pavement" rig, look at 4.56 or 4.88. 4.10 will work, but most folks go lower.

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post #3 of 20 Old 04-22-2015, 06:05 PM
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Exactly, 2.5" is more then enough with flats to run a 35" tire.

Synergy, Rock Krawler, Metal cloak, pic your poison. All sell from a basic coil kit to full short arm.

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post #4 of 20 Old 04-22-2015, 06:14 PM
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I agree especially if you are not going to rock crawl.
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post #5 of 20 Old 04-22-2015, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by queenmallcrawler View Post
A 4 inch lift is too high for 35s - they will look like Cheerios.
Love it
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post #6 of 20 Old 04-25-2015, 02:01 AM
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No specific issues with the long arm kit on the JK unless you buy a low budget low quality kit. As mentioned you don't need 4" of lift and you don't need long arms like on older Jeeps.
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post #7 of 20 Old 04-25-2015, 08:18 AM
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At 4" of lift long arms will give you a better ride on the road if properly set up. For the JK most long arms are of poor design due to the axle mounts and the limitations of control arm mounting locations on the frame. A custom built long arm would be the way to go if considering long arm but expect to pay a pretty good price. As others have stated you don't need 4" of lift for 35's and the jeep will handle better both on road and off with less lift. Flat fenders will also give you the look of a 4" lift and give you clearance for the tires without lifting at all if you have proper wheel backspacing and bumpstops.

As for gears if you have factory 4.10 try the 35's and see how it is. Many feel it is a good balance and off road you will have the 4:1 transfer case for the lower range power of climbing hills.

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post #8 of 20 Old 05-04-2015, 04:58 PM Thread Starter
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I said 35's but that could easily change to 37's and the reason why I might go to a 4" lift from the start is what if down the road I start to do more wheeling off-road well then the Jeep has the capability from the start. When I build my Mustangs I do it right from the beginning or I wait until it can be done right instead of piecing it together here and there. I don't get the whole rock crawling thing but anything else I'm game so why not have it ready from the beginning.

Someone said 2.5" is enough, umm why would you waste time on that looks nothing more than a body lift
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post #9 of 20 Old 05-04-2015, 07:52 PM
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Things like handling on road, roll center, coil unloading, slightly steering, premature wear on driveshafts. At 4" of lift you are pretty much replacing everything to do it proper.

But by your reason why stop at 4" go a full 8" and see how it rides.

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post #10 of 20 Old 05-04-2015, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
But by your reason why stop at 4" go a full 8" and see how it rides.

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post #11 of 20 Old 05-05-2015, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by 39Mustang View Post
I said 35's but that could easily change to 37's and the reason why I might go to a 4" lift from the start is what if down the road I start to do more wheeling off-road well then the Jeep has the capability from the start. When I build my Mustangs I do it right from the beginning or I wait until it can be done right instead of piecing it together here and there. I don't get the whole rock crawling thing but anything else I'm game so why not have it ready from the beginning.

Someone said 2.5" is enough, umm why would you waste time on that looks nothing more than a body lift
Trucks and Jeeps are two different creatures. Lift to clear the tires and clear the obstacles. I do rock crawl (and I mean big rocks, not bowling balls and speed bumps lol), and I run 37s on a 2.5 inch RK X Factor lift with flat fenders on my 2 door. I am sitting probably right around 3 inches-ish. The benefit of flat fenders is tire clearance in the wheel wells without having to throw ungodly amounts of money into modifying the driveline and opening the pandoras box that will eat your bank account. Also offroad, higher is not always better - it can also be quicker to roll with raising the center of gravity with the big tires and big lift. Lower center of gravity is actually a good thing, but it is a fine balance - to get high enough to clear, but not high enough to roll on the first boulder (or at 8 inches of lift, rolling in the parking lot lol).

This is a run we did the other day. We all had lockers, lower gearing, etc, so mechanically were similarly built. Both guys have bigger lifts than I do, but I have bigger tires (they are both on 35s). All of us on the same obstacle. The 4 door limo ended up getting high centered on it and had to be strapped off. The higher lifted 2 door couldnt make it and backed down. I walked right up not even hitting a skid plate. (I am the gray 2 door with orange webshade). Higher isnt always better.
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post #12 of 20 Old 05-05-2015, 06:25 AM
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Ok... sorta piggybacking onto this: Mopar 2" lift kit vs whoever elses. Mopar comes with springs, fox shocks, brake line, track bar brackets, Double Cardin front drive shaft.

Teraflex 2.5 comes with teraflex shocks (rebranded from whoever, most likely), springs, sway bar links, track bar bracket, bumpstop kit, drop bracket for rear brakes and associated hardware.

Rugged Ridge 3.5/2.5 (2.5 on the unlimited) comes with springs, shocks, rear track bar brace and bracket, bumpstop extensions.

At 2-ish inches of lift, is the front driveline not a necessary thing or is it a good idea that Mopar includes but none of the other guys will touch due to just not enveloping drivelines as well, and also what about the bumpstop extensions.. is that necessary for a 2" lift?

I'd rather do it right the first time. My intent is to clear 35-37's and that's it, although increased body ground clearance would be nice, hence lift + flares being in the tenative plan, unless educated otherwise. This thing still needs to have decent road manners afterwards, hence leaning towards 35's.

Last edited by RSOV Mk2; 05-05-2015 at 06:27 AM.
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post #13 of 20 Old 05-05-2015, 06:30 AM
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Multiposting so I don't re-edit for a 3rd time: I'm less concerned about brand name lift-wise, those are just examples i bombed through the internet to grab parts lists from, using a couple relatively notable names as a starting point.... my concern is what's really needed vs what "comes in the box" for the kits.
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post #14 of 20 Old 05-05-2015, 06:47 AM
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IF you want to do it right the first time then learn about the suspension and steering system and then make an educated decision on what you actually need vs looking at different kits. The difference between running 35's vs 37's properly is more then just lift.

People come on the forums all the time and say they want to do it right the first time but in reality a jeep typically evolves with the driver and experience over time. Learn your jeep, drive it, and it will tell you what you need to make it better. A new jeep is typically way more capable then the driver is with the exception of tires and should be good to go without any mods.

Not sure where you are doing your research on lifts but Mopar is a Teraflex lift rebranded and marked up and I have never even heard of anyone run a rugged ridge lift.

Components in the lift that you need is what is important and how you want to set it up. Shock length and bumpstops play a huge roll in the proper set up a of suspension and most people don't have a clue on how to take advantage of travel without just raising the height. Most lifted jeep I see at events or in parking lots have improper length shocks or bumpstops that are limiting the suspension. If you want to increase the performance of your jeep then start with tires, then proper gearing, then lockers. Bolt on lifts do very little for you performance wise and imo should be as little as possible to gain clearance for bigger tires.

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post #15 of 20 Old 05-05-2015, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 39Mustang View Post
I said 35's but that could easily change to 37's and the reason why I might go to a 4" lift from the start is what if down the road I start to do more wheeling off-road well then the Jeep has the capability from the start. When I build my Mustangs I do it right from the beginning or I wait until it can be done right instead of piecing it together here and there. I don't get the whole rock crawling thing but anything else I'm game so why not have it ready from the beginning.

Someone said 2.5" is enough, umm why would you waste time on that looks nothing more than a body lift
Wasting time? This is all just worthwhile information from a bunch of people who are giving you sound advice so you don't make a preventable mistake. You could always do the opposite of what people suggest and see how well you bode.

Good luck on whatever route you choose.
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post #16 of 20 Old 05-05-2015, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by 39Mustang View Post
Someone said 2.5" is enough, umm why would you waste time on that looks nothing more than a body lift
You should really do more research before making statements like that. I run a 2.5" long arm with 37" tires and have done some pretty tough trails. My JK performs great both on and off road.


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post #17 of 20 Old 05-05-2015, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 39Mustang View Post
I said 35's but that could easily change to 37's and the reason why I might go to a 4" lift from the start is what if down the road I start to do more wheeling off-road well then the Jeep has the capability from the start. When I build my Mustangs I do it right from the beginning or I wait until it can be done right instead of piecing it together here and there. I don't get the whole rock crawling thing but anything else I'm game so why not have it ready from the beginning.

Someone said 2.5" is enough, umm why would you waste time on that looks nothing more than a body lift
OH SHIT, sorry, you should have told us at the beginning you're just looking to drive a jacked up, redneck looking, drives like shit Jeep.

Before you make a complete tool out of yourself, SEARCH this forum and EDUCATE yourself about Jeep JK's and Lifts.


If you're looking for some useless little dick piece of shit like this for a Jeep, you're in the wrong place and should try Pirate 4x4.



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post #18 of 20 Old 05-05-2015, 07:20 AM
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Ya, they will love you over at pirate.

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post #19 of 20 Old 05-05-2015, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
IF you want to do it right the first time then learn about the suspension and steering system and then make an educated decision on what you actually need vs looking at different kits. The difference between running 35's vs 37's properly is more then just lift.

People come on the forums all the time and say they want to do it right the first time but in reality a jeep typically evolves with the driver and experience over time. Learn your jeep, drive it, and it will tell you what you need to make it better. A new jeep is typically way more capable then the driver is with the exception of tires and should be good to go without any mods.

Not sure where you are doing your research on lifts but Mopar is a Teraflex lift rebranded and marked up and I have never even heard of anyone run a rugged ridge lift.

Components in the lift that you need is what is important and how you want to set it up. Shock length and bumpstops play a huge roll in the proper set up a of suspension and most people don't have a clue on how to take advantage of travel without just raising the height. Most lifted jeep I see at events or in parking lots have improper length shocks or bumpstops that are limiting the suspension. If you want to increase the performance of your jeep then start with tires, then proper gearing, then lockers. Bolt on lifts do very little for you performance wise and imo should be as little as possible to gain clearance for bigger tires.
As I said, those 3 kits were basically grabbed at random due to being similar in parts, but highlighting differences and following that, asking why the differences. Thank you for telling me the mopar kit is just rebranded.

I agree on most lifted jeeps being "done wrong". I saw it many times, having to go on rescues for people who got themselves stranded and/or broken, on runs I wasn't on as well as having to tow strap them back to the trailhead on runs I was on.

Those experiences coupled with my own offroad experience (Been wheeling for over 15 years, but I've only built 2 rigs which are/were both leaf sprung) are directly driving my desire to ask questions to "get it right, for what I want to accomplish" even if they seem stupid to anyone reading. I think it's cheaper to ask a seemingly stupid question than to get stupid parts, then have to replace stupid parts to get the right parts.
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post #20 of 20 Old 05-05-2015, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
IF you want to do it right the first time then learn about the suspension and steering system and then make an educated decision on what you actually need vs looking at different kits. The difference between running 35's vs 37's properly is more then just lift.

People come on the forums all the time and say they want to do it right the first time but in reality a jeep typically evolves with the driver and experience over time. Learn your jeep, drive it, and it will tell you what you need to make it better. A new jeep is typically way more capable then the driver is with the exception of tires and should be good to go without any mods.

Not sure where you are doing your research on lifts but Mopar is a Teraflex lift rebranded and marked up and I have never even heard of anyone run a rugged ridge lift.

Components in the lift that you need is what is important and how you want to set it up. Shock length and bumpstops play a huge roll in the proper set up a of suspension and most people don't have a clue on how to take advantage of travel without just raising the height. Most lifted jeep I see at events or in parking lots have improper length shocks or bumpstops that are limiting the suspension. If you want to increase the performance of your jeep then start with tires, then proper gearing, then lockers. Bolt on lifts do very little for you performance wise and imo should be as little as possible to gain clearance for bigger tires.

^^^^ THIS!!! I've thoroughly read through the lift and shock threads that Dirtman and Planman have posted up. With that guidance and some advice from the local folks around me with much more experience, I've changed out many of the components of the lift I started with (RK 2.5" Max Travel) and I'm once again in a position where the jeep is more capable than I am willing. I'm still using the 2.5" RK springs but the shocks, control arms, fenders, brake lines, are all different and the front and rear bump stops are finally set for my vehicle. I spent the weekend rock crawling and the obstacles that I cleared this weekend were ones that had me hung up prior to making the changes. This weekend also taught me what I still need to work on (mostly my own choice of lines) and what works.
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