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post #1 of 49 Old 02-10-2015, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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please school me on lifts

i have been reading and searching in here, and im confused regarding lifts.

im building a jku for camping, fishing, and some mild wheeling, mostly to reach good camping spots. i have had to use the winch several times to get there, so, im not talking about just poorly maintained dirt roads....

anyways, this is also my daily driver, and it will also see some highway 2 or 3 times a year, when we have to drive 3 hours to go camping.... and i also tow a small bassboat maybe once a month for a couple of hours one way.....

my plan is to lift it 2.5 or 3" at most and put some 33 muds on it, and maybe in the future, 35s... so, im debating over which way to go. i have found lift kits like these, which replaces the stock coils:

http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lift-Kits..._pn=TER1351000

http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lift-Kits..._pn=TER1352000

http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lift-Kits...pn=R%2fERE7141

this one even includes shocks but im not sure about the brand:

http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lift-Kits...fMTM3330-40053

and coil spacers like this one:

http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lift-Kits..._pn=TER1355210

i also read somewhere in here that after lifting, i need several other things besides the lift kit, such as wheel spacers, and brackets or adjustable control arms to correct caster.

so, which one would suit my needs best?? i have zero experience with lifting a vehicle with coils, my previous jeep was a YJ, SOA gave me more than enough lift on it....

EDIT: im also fabricating a front bumper with a winch, and a rear bumper with tire carrier, as well as rocksliders, so this will add some weight, maybe its something to consider when choosing one lift or the other....

2007 JKU, 2.5" Rock Krawler lift, 285/70 17 mud terrains....
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post #2 of 49 Old 02-10-2015, 05:46 PM
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Out of those listed I would do a Teraflex 2.5" with their 9550 shocks and add their adjustable front track bar to it. Install it and see how you like the drive, odds are you won't feel the need for lower control arms, but if you do an inexpensive and effective fix would be some AEV, Rancho, or JKS front lower control arm brackets.

Keep it simple, no reason to go crazy for 33s, but the extra ground clearance and improved ride quality and handling of aftermarket coils are worth the investment.

Marcus


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post #3 of 49 Old 02-10-2015, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
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thanx. so, whats the purpose of the adjustable track bar??

and, i had read in here some people prefer the spacers to keep the stock coils and stock feel... do the aftermarket coils are better in handling or provide more comfort??

2007 JKU, 2.5" Rock Krawler lift, 285/70 17 mud terrains....
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post #4 of 49 Old 02-10-2015, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by shu2kill View Post
thanx. so, whats the purpose of the adjustable track bar??



Adjustable track bars allow you to center your axle under the jeep, from left to right.

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post #5 of 49 Old 02-10-2015, 06:31 PM
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if you do choose a Teraflex lift, I would consider different shocks. within a couple months both my front 9550 series shocks were leaking fluid. I also suspected one of their springs getting "soft". I wasn't happy with their products and sold what I could. I replaced it with a RE lift and couldn't be happier.

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post #6 of 49 Old 02-10-2015, 06:37 PM
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please school me on lifts

I've had teraflex on both jeeps and couldn't be happier. I run bilstien 5100 shocks. I recently added aev control arm brackets and it made a big difference. That's my opinion! I had skyjacker on the 1st jeep for about 2 weeks and ripped it out as it was rough as hell. I've heard the teraflex coil lift and rancho adjustable shocks are a pretty awesome combo


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post #7 of 49 Old 02-10-2015, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
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thanx!! great info.

so if i lift without adjustable trackbar, do i risk my axle not being centered?? or am i certain my axle wont be centered??

also, what about caster angle?? do i need to correct it?? one of the lifts i posted includes "Front Alignment washers for caster adjustment"... and i also found these AEV brackets which, as i understand, correct caster angle among other issues that can occur after lifting:

http://www.quadratec.com/products/16502_4301_07.htm

the reason i need to have it all defined prior to purchasing is that i live in Mexico and i have to drive 3.5 hours to get to the US. i would prefer to have the work done there, to insure everything is correct, besides, i think it could be cheaper. the local store charges almost $400 for installing Daystar 1 3/4" adapters, which Quadratec sells for $160 and dont seem like much work involved.

so, i need to have everything installed to avoid spending $200 on a trip to install $100 brackets....

2007 JKU, 2.5" Rock Krawler lift, 285/70 17 mud terrains....
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post #8 of 49 Old 02-10-2015, 11:43 PM
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It's not a risk, it is a guarantee the axle won't be laterally or longitudinally centered (in wheel well) when you lift your JK. As the chassis goes up the front axle swings towards the driver side and backward as it pivots on the 5 links that support it (TB + 4 CAs). BTW, it also rotates counterclockwise which reduces the Caster angle.

The geometry brackets reduce the angle of the CAs which indirectly reduces the change in Caster angle but they do not provide any fine tuning. Some owners never notice or care about any of the changes introduced by the lift but others are more sensitive. It's your choice. The best way to adjust the Caster angle is to add adjustable lower CAs in front.
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post #9 of 49 Old 02-11-2015, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCdawg View Post
Adjustable track bars allow you to center your axle under the jeep, from left to right.
I want to mention if your new to the online Jeep community. This is the only place you will get these kinds of NICE answers and not get Flammed for asking what an adjustable track bar does. Its a good question. With a simple answer.
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post #10 of 49 Old 02-11-2015, 01:18 AM
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Negative Inconsiderate Condescending Explanations?

Yeah, you'll get a lot of those here.

(All in good fun).
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post #11 of 49 Old 02-11-2015, 05:38 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinlock View Post
It's not a risk, it is a guarantee the axle won't be laterally or longitudinally centered (in wheel well) when you lift your JK. As the chassis goes up the front axle swings towards the driver side and backward as it pivots on the 5 links that support it (TB + 4 CAs). BTW, it also rotates counterclockwise which reduces the Caster angle.

The geometry brackets reduce the angle of the CAs which indirectly reduces the change in Caster angle but they do not provide any fine tuning. Some owners never notice or care about any of the changes introduced by the lift but others are more sensitive. It's your choice. The best way to adjust the Caster angle is to add adjustable lower CAs in front.
thanx. so, with such a small lift (2.5"), do i really need adjustable control arms, and adjustable track bar?? maybe if i was goingo for 4" or more, but as you mention, some owners dont even notice, im guessing with this lift im planning on installing i may be one of them... or not, who knows....

how hard is it to install and properly adjust the adjustable track bar and control arms?? because i may just install the lift and see how i like it, and then if i feel there was a lot of change, i can order the parts and install them myself??

2007 JKU, 2.5" Rock Krawler lift, 285/70 17 mud terrains....
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post #12 of 49 Old 02-11-2015, 05:42 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Stangbuster View Post
I want to mention if your new to the online Jeep community. This is the only place you will get these kinds of NICE answers and not get Flammed for asking what an adjustable track bar does. Its a good question. With a simple answer.
i know!! its hard for me to understand puns and some bashing, as english is my second language and sometimes i dont really understand the humor or sense of some people... as sometimes it will be hard for people to understand what im trying to say....

but yes, i have found that this is a good forum, i was in 2 other forums when i had my YJ but those forums were pretty much useless.... and here in Mexico, its the same, a couple of people feel they know everything there is to know, they have done everything and can do it better than you, and they only reply to a post to try to show they are superior to everyone who ever drove a jeep.... the weird thing is, one of them died on a wheeling accident....

2007 JKU, 2.5" Rock Krawler lift, 285/70 17 mud terrains....
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post #13 of 49 Old 02-11-2015, 05:59 AM
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please school me on lifts

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Originally Posted by CamoCop View Post
if you do choose a Teraflex lift, I would consider different shocks. within a couple months both my front 9550 series shocks were leaking fluid. I also suspected one of their springs getting "soft". I wasn't happy with their products and sold what I could. I replaced it with a RE lift and couldn't be happier.

Agree
The TF 2.5 without shocks or extensions supply's the better rear axle side TB bracket (axle position & roll center)
Pair it up with Rancho 9000 shocks.
The geo brackets are a nice addition
(Caster angle & ride comfort)
Finish off with a adjustable front track bar (axle center)
and 9/16 grade 8 bolt kit (DW prevention)

2007 JKR | PSC Big bore box | Rock Krawler 3.5" x-factor arms l SteerSmarts YETI track bar, tie rod, no drill flipped drag link, Griffin | Synergy frame brace | 37x12.5x17 Nitto RG's | Dana front DS | Fox IFP shocks | Artec front armor kit/Currie JJ's | Teraflex rear axle bracket | EVO Rockstars | Ridged D's, A pillar mounts | VKS sliders l Trek Armor seat covers | Superchips/Sprint booster | Savvy half doors w/ Bestop uppers

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post #14 of 49 Old 02-11-2015, 06:21 AM
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I'm all for helping someone learn, but jeebus, did he do any research at all prior to asking for help?


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post #15 of 49 Old 02-11-2015, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverCityOffroad View Post
Out of those listed I would do a Teraflex 2.5" with their 9550 shocks and add their adjustable front track bar to it. Install it and see how you like the drive, odds are you won't feel the need for lower control arms, but if you do an inexpensive and effective fix would be some AEV, Rancho, or JKS front lower control arm brackets.

Keep it simple, no reason to go crazy for 33s, but the extra ground clearance and improved ride quality and handling of aftermarket coils are worth the investment.

Marcus
I've been running this setup since 08 or so with 35's on my stock rubicon rims with the spydertrax wheel spacers with no problems. I didn't see a need for the adjustable track bar for such a basic small lift. I'm very satisfied with the improved clearance.

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post #16 of 49 Old 02-11-2015, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by shu2kill View Post
i have been reading and searching in here, and im confused regarding lifts.

im building a jku for camping, fishing, and some mild wheeling, mostly to reach good camping spots. i have had to use the winch several times to get there, so, im not talking about just poorly maintained dirt roads....

anyways, this is also my daily driver, and it will also see some highway 2 or 3 times a year, when we have to drive 3 hours to go camping.... and i also tow a small bassboat maybe once a month for a couple of hours one way.....

my plan is to lift it 2.5 or 3" at most and put some 33 muds on it, and maybe in the future, 35s... so, im debating over which way to go. i have found lift kits like these, which replaces the stock coils:

http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lift-Kits..._pn=TER1351000

http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lift-Kits..._pn=TER1352000

http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lift-Kits...pn=R%2fERE7141

this one even includes shocks but im not sure about the brand:

http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lift-Kits...fMTM3330-40053

and coil spacers like this one:

http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lift-Kits..._pn=TER1355210

i also read somewhere in here that after lifting, i need several other things besides the lift kit, such as wheel spacers, and brackets or adjustable control arms to correct caster.

so, which one would suit my needs best?? i have zero experience with lifting a vehicle with coils, my previous jeep was a YJ, SOA gave me more than enough lift on it....

EDIT: im also fabricating a front bumper with a winch, and a rear bumper with tire carrier, as well as rocksliders, so this will add some weight, maybe its something to consider when choosing one lift or the other....
The Teraflex 2.5" is ok, I would suggest the Rock Krawler 2.5" Stock Mod kit if your going for budget, I have installed it on several Jeeps. Excellent kit, comes with a new front track bar and rear track bar relocation bracket and new RK springs. Easy to install and actually lifts the vehicle 3" vs the named "2.5". Stock shocks work with the Rk kit just fine for a short while but as with any lift you will want to replace them sooner rather than later because they will be nearly maxed out and wont give you the ride you want.

You mentioned spring spacers....do yourself a favor and stay away from those. Get an honest spring lift that doesnt rely on poly boosters, they can get worn out and start shifting. I cant speak for JKs on popping out but my old TJ years ago had spacers and the first obstacle i drooped on the driver side rear fell right the hell out.

If you have the know-how and patience to fabricate bumpers yourself, a spring lift install will be a cake walk

Edit: I just saw that the 2.5" Teraflex was a true budget boost....you get what you pay for there. I am not saying they are not capable lifts, they work sure, but if its advice you seek then spend a tiny bit more for an honest coil lift....many of us started small and sunk money into the budget methods only to eat it soon after....save yourself some money over the long run and buy a legitimate lift up front, you will be happier.

You may want to invest in longer brake lines also with 2.5"+ kits, flexing a rubber line to the breaking point is no fun in the woods.

Last edited by 08rubinon; 02-11-2015 at 07:57 AM.
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post #17 of 49 Old 02-11-2015, 03:59 PM
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I'm all for helping someone learn, but jeebus, did he do any research at all prior to asking for help?
Who cares? I've learned some things I wouldn't have if he hadn't asked.
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post #18 of 49 Old 02-11-2015, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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i had never heard about Rock Krawler brand, is it reliable??

im assuming this is the one you mention Rubinon

http://www.quadratec.com/products/16189_2001.htm

it looks good, i would just need to replace the shocks for longer ones, but i could do that once i change tires, im running the stock tires for a while (still about 50% of life left). you mention its a true 3" lift, that could compensate for when i start adding weight...

i guess i could install the spring lift, but i would be worried about adjusting the track bar, its something i have zero experience on, when i did SOA to my YJ i removed the track bars alltogether.

looking at some other lifts on quadratec, i see that i can get something like a Rubicon Express

http://www.quadratec.com/products/16300_6011_07.htm

and an adjustable track bar for about $200 more, and that would put me in the same price range of the Rock Krawler.... besides, i could do it in steps, order the lift first and then if i feel the need, order the track bar...

i also found this one

http://www.quadratec.com/products/16117_1904_07.htm

a skyjacker with shocks, its a little bit more expensive but the shocks are a plus, and if i feel the need i can install the track bar later....

what do you think?? any negative opinions of any of these kits??

2007 JKU, 2.5" Rock Krawler lift, 285/70 17 mud terrains....
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post #19 of 49 Old 02-11-2015, 05:17 PM
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please school me on lifts

Quote:
Originally Posted by shu2kill View Post
i had never heard about Rock Krawler brand, is it reliable??



im assuming this is the one you mention Rubinon



http://www.quadratec.com/products/16189_2001.htm



it looks good, i would just need to replace the shocks for longer ones, but i could do that once i change tires, im running the stock tires for a while (still about 50% of life left). you mention its a true 3" lift, that could compensate for when i start adding weight...



i guess i could install the spring lift, but i would be worried about adjusting the track bar, its something i have zero experience on, when i did SOA to my YJ i removed the track bars alltogether.



looking at some other lifts on quadratec, i see that i can get something like a Rubicon Express



http://www.quadratec.com/products/16300_6011_07.htm



and an adjustable track bar for about $200 more, and that would put me in the same price range of the Rock Krawler.... besides, i could do it in steps, order the lift first and then if i feel the need, order the track bar...



i also found this one



http://www.quadratec.com/products/16117_1904_07.htm



a skyjacker with shocks, its a little bit more expensive but the shocks are a plus, and if i feel the need i can install the track bar later....



what do you think?? any negative opinions of any of these kits??
Quick answers

Adjusting a track bar is very easy. If you did a spring over on a YJ, you can adjust a track bar. TB's are mandatory on coil spring rigs unless you triangulate the control arms and that's a whole different ball game.




Rock Krawler- very high quality, top notch company, very reliable

Rubicon Express - not too bad



Skyjacker - stay away

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post #20 of 49 Old 02-11-2015, 08:29 PM
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read this link, I wrote this for people just like you wanting to learn about lifts.http://www.jkfreaks.com/forums/showt...ur-getting-one

Some build info here:
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post #21 of 49 Old 02-12-2015, 02:28 AM
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I just want to say thanks across the board for everyone who replied. This has been a question I've wanted to ask for some time, since I could make sense of the way the suspension worked on the jeep but I also am used to rather simple lifts (My other rig's a 85 K5 so there's no control arms or anything necessary).

It's nice actually getting straight answers plus some good leads on who makes quality stuff. Haven't lifted the jeep yet but this will all play into the decision of what, how much, and where it gets done.

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post #22 of 49 Old 02-12-2015, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shu2kill View Post
i had never heard about Rock Krawler brand, is it reliable??

im assuming this is the one you mention Rubinon

http://www.quadratec.com/products/16189_2001.htm

it looks good, i would just need to replace the shocks for longer ones, but i could do that once i change tires, im running the stock tires for a while (still about 50% of life left). you mention its a true 3" lift, that could compensate for when i start adding weight...

i guess i could install the spring lift, but i would be worried about adjusting the track bar, its something i have zero experience on, when i did SOA to my YJ i removed the track bars alltogether.

looking at some other lifts on quadratec, i see that i can get something like a Rubicon Express

http://www.quadratec.com/products/16300_6011_07.htm

and an adjustable track bar for about $200 more, and that would put me in the same price range of the Rock Krawler.... besides, i could do it in steps, order the lift first and then if i feel the need, order the track bar...

i also found this one

http://www.quadratec.com/products/16117_1904_07.htm

a skyjacker with shocks, its a little bit more expensive but the shocks are a plus, and if i feel the need i can install the track bar later....

what do you think?? any negative opinions of any of these kits??
Is Rock Krawler the best?..answering that questions is like setting myself up to be flamed by a firing squad when it concerns forums...its like trying to say if Chevy beats Dodge beats Ford beats/etc lol..I would say they are one of the best without a doubt. Lifetime Warranty, parts quality, the amount of abuse they can brush off, and Bridgette/Jason that work there are crazy helpful.

I run the 5.5" Long Arm on my TJ, and my wife has the 3.5" on her JK. I have installed a lot of these 2.5" kits and they are very solid. Track bar adjustment is pretty simple honestly. I mean ultimately its up to you and you can have it professionally aligned....or you take a tape measure to your driveway after you install the lift and do this:

-Drivers side front: Measure from the lowest fixed hard point on the body/frame...say the upper shock mount to a fixed point on the axle, say the hub face...or the C. Record that measurement.
-Passenger side front: Measure from the same fixed point on the body/frame to the same fixed point on this side of the axle
-Compare results and adjust the track bar accordingly

Or just do what a lot of us do, stick your thumb up, squint through one eye, and adjust side to side until your satisfied lol

If I am not mistaken Rock Krawler includes what the average "default" measurement should be before you even attach the track bar which will give you a good reference.


In reference to you buying a lift then the track bar separate like the RE lift. Its not really a good idea to buy a lift and plan on buying the track bar later, I will explain. When you spring lift the Jeep and keep a stock track bar you end up pulling the entire axle towards the drivers side of the Jeep because you arent extending the track bar to match the new distance which puts unecessary pressure on all your controls arms which want to keep pulling the axle to the passengers side. You probably will not notice this fight while driving for a little while but everything is affected by that pressure. Your joints, bushings, hubs, etc all get worn rapidly by this extra pressure and next thing you know you have the case of full blown death wobble. So that is something to consider....keeping in mind the lower the lift, the less pressure so the slower this process will happen, but it will happen eventually.

Lastly, my own .02, dont buy Skyjacker for a Jeep, leave them to play in the mud truck world. Skyjackers arent very flexy...and longevity is lacking.

Last edited by 08rubinon; 02-12-2015 at 05:04 AM.
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post #23 of 49 Old 02-12-2015, 05:17 AM
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To give you an idea of what the RK 2.5" looks like, I built this Jeep for a local dealership using that lift, stock shocks, and its got 315/70 tires which are like 34.7" tires.
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post #24 of 49 Old 02-12-2015, 06:05 AM Thread Starter
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thats great info, once again, thank you!!

thedirtman, i read your article and found it very informative. i already saved it and will read it again tonight to make sure i fully understand.

and 08rubinon, i know mentioning which one is "the best" is next to impossible, and would be risky. but with what you mention, and the reviews i found, im pretty much set on that lift. since i plan on keeping this jeep for a long time, i want to build it correctly. on my YJ i wasnt sure what i wanted and ended up wasting, rather than spending, a lot of time and money. this time is different, i know what i need and i want to build accordingly right from the start. with the explanation about adjusting the trackbar, i think i can install this myself without a problem. i used to align my YJ in a similar way, because it had custom highsteer and i couldnt find a shop that would align it, so i learnt how to do it myself with a tape measure.

2007 JKU, 2.5" Rock Krawler lift, 285/70 17 mud terrains....
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post #25 of 49 Old 02-12-2015, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by shu2kill View Post
thats great info, once again, thank you!!

thedirtman, i read your article and found it very informative. i already saved it and will read it again tonight to make sure i fully understand.

and 08rubinon, i know mentioning which one is "the best" is next to impossible, and would be risky. but with what you mention, and the reviews i found, im pretty much set on that lift. since i plan on keeping this jeep for a long time, i want to build it correctly. on my YJ i wasnt sure what i wanted and ended up wasting, rather than spending, a lot of time and money. this time is different, i know what i need and i want to build accordingly right from the start. with the explanation about adjusting the trackbar, i think i can install this myself without a problem. i used to align my YJ in a similar way, because it had custom highsteer and i couldnt find a shop that would align it, so i learnt how to do it myself with a tape measure.
Glad to help shu2kill, and just a bit of advice, when you install the front portion of the lift and track bar, keep the vehicle under its own weight as much as possible and that will keep that front axle from wandering too far one way or the other. Disconnect the shocks, take out the old track bar, but dont take the wheels off and jack up one corner at a time (watch the brake line and the hub sensor cable carefully while you jack it up!) insert the new spring on that corner then move to the other corner and do the same. Once the front springs are in do this same process to the rear corners. Once the rear is done go ahead and install the rear track bar bracket that comes in the kit, re-attach the rear shocks. Move to the front and place the new track bar in adjusting its fitment as necessary. Once the track bar is in from your under the vehicle perspective go ahead and give it the fine tuning as needed by measuring. If you do this on flat ground and keep the vehicle under its own weight as much as possible you will find that you hardly need any adjusting to the track bar because the axle should not have moved.

With most lifts I have found that the rear JK springs are easy but almost always annoying to set for some reason. Once you have the lift all done, you may want to bounce a little on the rear to make sure those springs are sitting solid on the frame side.

Edited: I forgot to mention to make sure you disconnect the sway bar end links also.

Last edited by 08rubinon; 02-12-2015 at 06:56 AM.
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