CANT SHIFT 6sp IN H2O???? - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
 
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post #1 of 24 Old 06-28-2008, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
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CANT SHIFT 6sp IN H2O????

Does anyone have info/ link regarding 6sp man trans...taking water into clutch when shifting during stream crossings etc? Does it matter whether 2wd, 4wd, high, low? Is there a cure or are owners screwed? I thought my clutch was fixin to cough-up a throwout bearing soon, but maybe I drove thru too much water instead...
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post #2 of 24 Old 06-29-2008, 05:55 AM
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I don't have a link, but on that "other" board (the one with all the bannings) there are numerous posts about people with manual trannys ingesting water during relatively shallow crossings.
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post #3 of 24 Old 06-29-2008, 11:07 AM
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BIG A just mentioned that when he saw my pic of my water crossing. I hope this is an isolated case as river crossings are a common thing where I live. My last run there were four river crossings and a few streams. Luckly, I did not shift while in the water, but once I stopped there was lots of water draining out of all different places. I did not think to look under at the bellhousing. It has been a week now and everything seems OK.

If anyone has answers, I would like to know. I will be more careful if tht is the case.

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post #4 of 24 Old 06-29-2008, 11:36 AM
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I went through a river a few weeks ago with no water in the trans or diffs. I didn't shift the trans but I did got from 4H to 4L. Only place water got in was the in the floorboards.





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post #5 of 24 Old 06-29-2008, 12:54 PM
 
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None of these issues ever happend to me with my TJ's and CJ's...WTF?
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post #6 of 24 Old 06-29-2008, 03:11 PM
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This site is full of nothing but complaints, So read up on all of them.
http://www.aboutautomobile.com/compl...NGLER+4-DR+4X4

I tried to search for the water in the clutch problem, But i came up empty. I know i read it somewhere that it's a problem though.

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post #7 of 24 Old 06-29-2008, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustoff '68 View Post
None of these issues ever happend to me with my TJ's and CJ's...WTF?
this isn't something new, and/or isolated to just JK's. this is with every manual transmission on any vehicle. they all work the same.

if you depress the clutch while underwater, you risk sucking water into the transmission, if the transmission is submerged.

you can shift, just don't use the clutch, or better yet, choose the correct gear to begin with. if for some reason you stall with the transmission submerged, shift into 4-low, so you can start without pushing the clutch in.
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post #8 of 24 Old 07-03-2008, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by mcnaught6 View Post
this isn't something new, and/or isolated to just JK's. this is with every manual transmission on any vehicle. they all work the same.

if you depress the clutch while underwater, you risk sucking water into the transmission, if the transmission is submerged.

you can shift, just don't use the clutch, or better yet, choose the correct gear to begin with. if for some reason you stall with the transmission submerged, shift into 4-low, so you can start without pushing the clutch in.
Listen to mcnaught, this is offroading 101 stuff all 6speed owners should know. And, yes this problem exists for LJs, TJs, YJs, and CJs.

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post #9 of 24 Old 07-03-2008, 11:05 AM
 
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Well then, my 2002 TJ must have been an anomoly...a few years back, we had a hurricane here in Norfolk, VA, and the Ghent area was flooded for 5 days...water was up to the door sill...I was one of 3 folk in the neighborhood that was able to transport neighbors to shops, the local hospital, etc...I know that I did not drive without changing gears...to be sure, I had to use that clutch after stopping, and when going into 2nd gear...this went on for almost a week...not one problem...I just may be blessed, or maybe it has something to do with driving for over 40+ years...screw that "Offroading 101" BS...that sounds as hokey as "It's a Jeep Thing" crap.

Last edited by Dustoff '68; 07-03-2008 at 11:08 AM.
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post #10 of 24 Old 07-03-2008, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Dustoff '68 View Post
Well then, my 2002 TJ must have been an anomoly...a few years back, we had a hurricane here in Norfolk, VA, and the Ghent area was flooded for 5 days...water was up to the door sill...I was one of 3 folk in the neighborhood that was able to transport neighbors to shops, the local hospital, etc...I know that I did not drive without changing gears...to be sure, I had to use that clutch after stopping, and when going into 2nd gear...this went on for almost a week...not one problem...I just may be blessed, or maybe it has something to do with driving for over 40+ years...screw that "Offroading 101" BS...that sounds as hokey as "It's a Jeep Thing" crap.
yeah, it was either your skillful driving, or you just didn't have water up to the tranny vent.

one or the other.

i'm sure it was your skillful driving.
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post #11 of 24 Old 07-03-2008, 11:12 AM
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not sure about previous year but in the new model yes it does happen. Something about the vents on the bell housing or something like that. I have an auto so I didnt pay much attention to it...


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post #12 of 24 Old 07-03-2008, 11:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mcnaught6 View Post
yeah, it was either your skillful driving, or you just didn't have water up to the tranny vent.

one or the other.

i'm sure it was your skillful driving.
Damn...you must have had crappy teachers...as limited as my "offroad" skills are, even I know that the door sill is higher then the tranny vent...
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post #13 of 24 Old 07-05-2008, 05:30 PM
 
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Went offroad last weekend and we passed a water hole, 2 TJ's went down with clutch problems, we had to tow them out of the trail, so it's not just a JK problem. Mind you they both couldn't get out of the hole, and got stuck in the water for a while.

It may have something to do with the amount of time they spent, or how much use of the clutch they made while trying.
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post #14 of 24 Old 07-05-2008, 08:38 PM
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I had my old 05 TJ stuck in water up to its headlights once. Clutch worked fine, but the tranny sounded like a box full of rocks. Drained it when I got home and got more water out of it than I did oil. Put new stuff in it and all was well, put another 25,000miles on it before I got rid of it, no tranny problems. On the TJ's, the vent hose only goes up to the top of the tranny tunnel, thats where the water gets in at.

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post #15 of 24 Old 07-10-2008, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnaught6 View Post

you can shift, just don't use the clutch, or better yet, choose the correct gear to begin with. if for some reason you stall with the transmission submerged, shift into 4-low, so you can start without pushing the clutch in.
can you explain this? I want to know how to do this just in case. Shift without clutch and starting without it as well


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post #16 of 24 Old 07-10-2008, 07:54 AM
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can you explain this? I want to know how to do this just in case. Shift without clutch and starting without it as well
You can shift a manual without using the clutch if you match the rpms correctly. Like, if you are in third gear, shifting to fourth...if you are at 4000rpm and pull it out of 3rd gear, let the motor down to about 3100rpm (ish), you can slide it right into 4th without ever touching the clutch. (I'm using this as an example as it's the easiest one to pull off without grinding the tranny imho) I wouldn't recommend doing it all the time of course, emergency purposes only...if you run into a problem where your clutch is stuck - had it happen to me in a 91 dakota and drove it home 30 miles without using the clutch once, haha.

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post #17 of 24 Old 07-10-2008, 08:33 AM
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the problem happens when you submerge the tranny and get yourself stuck, then sit there rocking back and forth through gears, using the clutch while shifting trying to get yourself un-stuck.



to shift without the clutch, it is just a feel thing. it takes practice. it's easier to upshift than downshift like this.

you just start out in any gear, while driving, then when you are ready to shift, just pull the shifter out of gear (without pushing the clutch) and gently apply pressure to move into the next higher gear. it will slide in when the rpm's get to the right point. the specific rpm's are different for each gear, but mostly around 3000. let off the gas slightly, just like you would when shifting with the clutch, so that the rpm's drop slowly. just take it nice and easy while you are learning to do it.

you pretty much do everything the same as when shifting with the clutch, you just don't use the clutch.

to downshift, you do it the same way, but you will have to raise the rpm's a bit with the gas pedal while moving the shifter into the lower gear.

there isn't a specific rpm, it is more of a range of about a couple hundred rpm's. it just takes practice to get the feel for it.

it doesn't hurt anything to do it either.



if you stall in water, you can re-start the engine without pushing in the clutch if you are in 4-low. just shift the t-case into 4-low, then put the shifter into 2nd gear (1st works also, but the rpms just jump pretty high real fast) and turn the key without pushing in the clutch. you will have to be ready to hit the brake, or move the shifter into neutral once the engine turns over so that you don't start moving immediately. practice this too while you aren't in a position to really need it (i.e. on dry land), so you know what to expect ahead of time, in case you are forced to do it.

Last edited by mcnaught6; 07-10-2008 at 08:37 AM.
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post #18 of 24 Old 07-10-2008, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnaught6 View Post
the problem happens when you submerge the tranny and get yourself stuck, then sit there rocking back and forth through gears, using the clutch while shifting trying to get yourself un-stuck.



to shift without the clutch, it is just a feel thing. it takes practice. it's easier to upshift than downshift like this.

you just start out in any gear, while driving, then when you are ready to shift, just pull the shifter out of gear (without pushing the clutch) and gently apply pressure to move into the next higher gear. it will slide in when the rpm's get to the right point. the specific rpm's are different for each gear, but mostly around 3000. let off the gas slightly, just like you would when shifting with the clutch, so that the rpm's drop slowly. just take it nice and easy while you are learning to do it.

you pretty much do everything the same as when shifting with the clutch, you just don't use the clutch.

to downshift, you do it the same way, but you will have to raise the rpm's a bit with the gas pedal while moving the shifter into the lower gear.

there isn't a specific rpm, it is more of a range of about a couple hundred rpm's. it just takes practice to get the feel for it.

it doesn't hurt anything to do it either.



if you stall in water, you can re-start the engine without pushing in the clutch if you are in 4-low. just shift the t-case into 4-low, then put the shifter into 2nd gear (1st works also, but the rpms just jump pretty high real fast) and turn the key without pushing in the clutch. you will have to be ready to hit the brake, or move the shifter into neutral once the engine turns over so that you don't start moving immediately. practice this too while you aren't in a position to really need it (i.e. on dry land), so you know what to expect ahead of time, in case you are forced to do it.
I don't have a manual JK, but I've had cars that required you to push the clutch or be in neutral for the starter to engage. My motorcycle is also like this. I assume the JK doesn't have this restriction, right?
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post #19 of 24 Old 07-10-2008, 08:56 AM
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good info.... I will check this all out. I have shifted cars before without the clutch... just didnt mean to do it


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post #20 of 24 Old 07-10-2008, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by RotorHead View Post
I don't have a manual JK, but I've had cars that required you to push the clutch or be in neutral for the starter to engage. My motorcycle is also like this. I assume the JK doesn't have this restriction, right?
Shifting into 4lo overrides the clutch switch. Somewhat of a safety feature when you stall on a hill climb, no more need for three feet.

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post #21 of 24 Old 07-10-2008, 09:37 AM
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Shifting into 4lo overrides the clutch switch. Somewhat of a safety feature when you stall on a hill climb, no more need for three feet.
Good to know and good for Jeep for making it this way.
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post #22 of 24 Old 07-10-2008, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
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Shifting into 4lo overrides the clutch switch. Somewhat of a safety feature when you stall on a hill climb, no more need for three feet.
no need to use three feet, or start while in-gear on a hill. this is a good time to use the hand parking brake.
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post #23 of 24 Old 07-10-2008, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mcnaught6 View Post
no need to use three feet, or start while in-gear on a hill. this is a good time to use the hand parking brake.
I never much cared for using the parking brake for anything other than parking. Tends to wear them out faster then they don't work when you really need them to.

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post #24 of 24 Old 08-07-2008, 01:16 PM
 
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ive got a 6 spd, had it stuck above the bumpers in salt h20 last weekend, changed gears with the clutch, and still runs fine....knoc on wuud
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