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post #1 of 32 Old 12-15-2014, 09:28 AM Thread Starter
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Built D44 vs Stock D60

Any clue as to the strength difference of a 2014 Rubicon D44 with Truss/Gussets/RCV's/Dynatrac Balljoints vs a junkyard D60??? I never plan to go over a 37" KM2 and can do all those upgrades to my D44 for $2,100. Thoughts?

I know RCV warranties shafts up to a 40" tire but will the rest of the D44 hold up?

Plus I read about people having issues with the tone rings and other little headaches of dealing with a D60 build/swap.

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post #2 of 32 Old 12-15-2014, 09:49 AM
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If you already have a d44 Id just build that. Ive been rolling 37's for a year and a half on my trussed d44 w/chromolies. I try to wheel smart and if I cant make it with out bouncing I winch or take a strap. I dont do super hard core trails but my Jeep has been over the Dusy, the Rubicon, Swamp and Coyote Lake trails which are not easy and have only had to winch once (on Swamp in the rain/snow/hail).
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post #3 of 32 Old 12-15-2014, 09:53 AM
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There have only been a handfull of people I've found across multiple forums (including Pirate) that have broken a properly set up high pinion New Gen D44 ring and pinon, even with 40's.

Axle shafts are a different story. I've seen a handful of RCV breaks even on 37's.

Factory axle tubes are toothpicks. Do yourself a favor and add armor. Outer sleeves and/or a truss are worth the time. Don't waste money on inner sleeves. In most (not all) 1 ton builds you have to truss the axle anyway to fit all the mounting brackets and perches.

Last weak zone is the hubs, but you can run lockouts (spyntecs) and eliminate that issue. If youre going to run 37's max I'm in the "keep the D44" boat.

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post #4 of 32 Old 12-15-2014, 10:12 AM
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agree on building the 44. keep in mind if you were to do a D60 swap youd need to run 40"s+ to gain back the ground clearance of a D44/37-38" combo.
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post #5 of 32 Old 12-15-2014, 03:13 PM
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I'm in the D44 boat as well, of course I was in the "Keep the HP D30" crowd with my XJ.

I've been running 37's for almost 6mos now and haven't had an issue. I was running 35's for a year before that. I still have the stock shafts in my axle for now and will be upgrading once funds allow. I just take things easy and leave my lockers unlocked until I actually need them. If I get to an obstacle and can't get up it open/open then I back up, figure my line, lock both axles, and go for it. If after a few attempts its not happening then the winch comes out. I'd rather pull rope than deal with breakage any day.

Along the same lines though, RCV's or conventional Chromo shafts? A set of Alloy USA or G2 shafts are half the price of a set of front RCV's. I understand the advantages of the RCV but as I have yet to break a stock shaft I'm wondering if I'd be fine getting standard chromo shafts.

I haven't ran any super crazy trails, the hardest trail I've ran so far is Holy Cross in CO.

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post #6 of 32 Old 12-15-2014, 03:38 PM
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Anything larger than a 33" tire mandates a 14bolt front axle! Ok, sorry for the sarcasm, now back to seriousness.....

I am in the D44 camp as well. This is my second JKUR on 37s and the first had a hemi in it. I ran stock front axle shafts for a while and then upgraded to RCVs just for the insurance. I never broke a front or rear shaft. I do fairly hard trails (Spring Creek, Chinamans, etc in CO; Poison Spider/Golden spike/ Gold Bar Rim in Moab) I try to wheel within reason, but let's face it; every now and then you just have to give it the whip!

On my hemi JK the housing was left bone stock. When I sold it the tubes were straight and the Cs were not bent. (Alignment specs never changed over the years.) On my current JKUR I really debated about trussing the front, but in the end opted not to. Here is my reasoning. Neither a bent tube nor a bent C is going to leave you stranded on a trail. You can drive home with one or even both. So I tend NOT to put money into things that won't leave me stranded or with a major trail repair. (yeah changing an axle shaft is not a huge deal, but I would rather not do it on the trail!) If I ever bent a tube or a C (which by now I don't think I ever will) I will just upgrade to a ProRock 44. Worse case, have the damn thing fixed. Out of curiosity I called a local axle shop. They quoted me $250 to fix a bent axle. Not exactly a huge expense. Hell, I might even just straighten a bent axle and then truss it!
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post #7 of 32 Old 12-15-2014, 03:47 PM
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I'd take a D60 any day over a D44, lockouts, larger brakes, 8 lug, etc...

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post #8 of 32 Old 12-15-2014, 04:01 PM
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Good info Nucleophile, although I don't mine the 200$ or so it was for the Artec armor kit. I've seen reports of the housings doing more than just bending, and the C's bending to the point the knuckle is no longer attached. For those reasons I felt it worth the effort to weld on the armor kit when I regeared it for the 37's.

For the sake of honesty and to give all the facts:

I ran the 35's with stock gears, stock shafts, stock ball joints, and only Synergy inner axle sleeves for an upgrade.

Now with the 37's I am running the full Artec armor kit (truss, LCA skids, and C-gussets), Alloy USA ball joints, the Synergy inner sleeves, and 5.38 gears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CT Performance, Inc View Post
I'd take a D60 any day over a D44, lockouts, larger brakes, 8 lug, etc...
Sure, and the cost is nothing for us because we didn't already spend a butt load of money on the JK in the first place. At least give some reall reasoning based on the OP's statement and position.

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post #9 of 32 Old 12-15-2014, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
--End Quote---
Sure, and the cost is nothing for us because we didn't already spend a butt load of money on the JK in the first place. In fact, why people would consider anything other then a set of Dynatrac drop in axles (Dana 6 front, Dana 80 rear) to run 35's is completely asinine. Just like the people still running the 3.8L V6 are obviously idiots because the 6.4L Hemi swap is the only thing worth doing and soooo affordable.
Naw I wouldn't run a Hemi if it was free

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post #10 of 32 Old 12-15-2014, 04:19 PM
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Anybody see TF's 8 lug full float kits for 30/44 coming out ?

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post #11 of 32 Old 12-15-2014, 04:20 PM
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^Yeah, pretty cool, but I don't know if $2k cool


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post #12 of 32 Old 12-15-2014, 04:48 PM
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^Yeah, pretty cool, but I don't know if $2k cool

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2007 JKR | PSC Big bore box | Rock Krawler 3.5" x-factor arms l SteerSmarts YETI track bar, tie rod, no drill flipped drag link, Griffin | Synergy frame brace | 37x12.5x17 Nitto RG's | Dana front DS | Fox IFP shocks | Artec front armor kit/Currie JJ's | Teraflex rear axle bracket | EVO Rockstars | Ridged D's, A pillar mounts | VKS sliders l Trek Armor seat covers | Superchips/Sprint booster | Savvy half doors w/ Bestop uppers
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post #13 of 32 Old 12-15-2014, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
Good info Nucleophile, although I don't mine the 200$ or so it was for the Artec armor kit. I've seen reports of the housings doing more than just bending, and the C's bending to the point the knuckle is no longer attached. For those reasons I felt it worth the effort to weld on the armor kit when I regeared it for the 37's.
If you bend the Cs to that point, you must have been doing something really strange, like jumping 4' in the air or something bizarre like that. the only tube I have seen (pictures) break was sleeved.......
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post #14 of 32 Old 12-15-2014, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch79 View Post
Any clue as to the strength difference of a 2014 Rubicon D44 with Truss/Gussets/RCV's/Dynatrac Balljoints vs a junkyard D60??? I never plan to go over a 37" KM2 and can do all those upgrades to my D44 for $2,100. Thoughts?

I know RCV warranties shafts up to a 40" tire but will the rest of the D44 hold up?

Plus I read about people having issues with the tone rings and other little headaches of dealing with a D60 build/swap.

Just my opinion so take for what it's worth, but I wouldn't put a dime into a stock JK front housing. With so many good replacements from Dynatrac, Teraflex and others I'd just get an angle corrected aftermarket housing and be done with it. I did the whole sleeve/gusset/skids/ball joints hokey pokey with my stock D44. No comparison to the Tera R44 I swapped I'm last year. In the end you'll be quality and bucks ahead.


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post #15 of 32 Old 12-15-2014, 06:39 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoK66 View Post
Just my opinion so take for what it's worth, but I wouldn't put a dime into a stock JK front housing. With so many good replacements from Dynatrac, Teraflex and others I'd just get an angle corrected aftermarket housing and be done with it. I did the whole sleeve/gusset/skids/ball joints hokey pokey with my stock D44. No comparison to the Tera R44 I swapped I'm last year. In the end you'll be quality and bucks ahead.


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So did you bend it/break it with all that done to it or did you upgrade for peace of mind?

2014 JKUR, 3.5" X Factor RK lift, 40" Nitto Trail Grappler's, RIPP supercharger and UD60s.
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post #16 of 32 Old 12-15-2014, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by SoK66 View Post
Just my opinion so take for what it's worth, but I wouldn't put a dime into a stock JK front housing. With so many good replacements from Dynatrac, Teraflex and others I'd just get an angle corrected aftermarket housing and be done with it. I did the whole sleeve/gusset/skids/ball joints hokey pokey with my stock D44. No comparison to the Tera R44 I swapped I'm last year. In the end you'll be quality and bucks ahead.


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I'm in the same boat, currently running the TF 44 front and 60 rear. Running stock shafts at the moment and have been for three years, idk if the RCVs are worth the extra money. At least in my situation. If you save for a little longer the TF 44 is not to far off from what you will put in the stock 44.

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RK 2.5 max travel pro with RRDs, 37" Nitto Trail Grapplers, Tera 44 front, Tera 60 rear with 4.88s
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post #17 of 32 Old 12-15-2014, 08:35 PM
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Ok, so let me get this straight. A bare housing that cost over 2000$ is not far off from a 300$ armor kit? Even if you had to pay somebody to weld it you should be at 900$ max. I guess I'm missing something here.

At the cost of a stock JK D44, even used, I could see the advantage if you were replacing a D30 or needing to replace your destroyed housing. I just don't see how paying over twice as much is worth it over beefing up the stock housing if you already have it.

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post #18 of 32 Old 12-16-2014, 05:40 AM
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Ok, so let me get this straight. A bare housing that cost over 2000$ is not far off from a 300$ armor kit? Even if you had to pay somebody to weld it you should be at 900$ max. I guess I'm missing something here.

At the cost of a stock JK D44, even used, I could see the advantage if you were replacing a D30 or needing to replace your destroyed housing. I just don't see how paying over twice as much is worth it over beefing up the stock housing if you already have it.
Well, the problem is that they don't cost over $2k in the real world. A guy on the Forum just got a TF R44 with TF ball joints installed for $1,700. I got mine around the same price with Synergy ball joints. I was able to sell off the stock housing for $800, so in the end I was out your $900. Cha-Ching! I'd bet one could even sell off a tock D30 housing and recover at least something.

When I had my stock axle sleeved & gusseted back in '09 the only housing available was the standard Pro Rock 44, way stronger but at that point they didn't offer the Unlimited with corrected angles. Had the PR Unlimited been available it'd have been under there in a heartbeat.

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post #19 of 32 Old 12-16-2014, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch79 View Post
Any clue as to the strength difference of a 2014 Rubicon D44 with Truss/Gussets/RCV's/Dynatrac Balljoints vs a junkyard D60??? I never plan to go over a 37" KM2 and can do all those upgrades to my D44 for $2,100. Thoughts?

I know RCV warranties shafts up to a 40" tire but will the rest of the D44 hold up?

Plus I read about people having issues with the tone rings and other little headaches of dealing with a D60 build/swap.
Can you build the junkyard axle yourself? That is a big part of it. Lots of labor involved in taking a JY axle, stripping it down and then welding everything back on and setting up the gears.

The D44 weak point with big tires is the ring and pinion size. You can build up everything else to take a pounding but there is nothing you can do to change the gear size.

Also, what do you plan for the rear. It takes a beating as well.

The cost's seem to never stop...if you do go JY axle then you've the bolt pattern to deal with..new wheels.

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post #20 of 32 Old 12-16-2014, 05:46 AM
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So did you bend it/break it with all that done to it or did you upgrade for peace of mind?
Mostly the latter. I wanted the angles corrected and before it broke at the center section I wanted to get it out of there and sell it off. I recouped $800 for the stock housing, so I was only out around $900 for the TF R44. I was recovering from rotator cuff surgery so I had to farm out the install to a local guy who did a splendid job of it.

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post #21 of 32 Old 12-16-2014, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nucleophile View Post
On my hemi JK the housing was left bone stock. When I sold it the tubes Out of curiosity I called a local axle shop. They quoted me $250 to fix a bent axle. Not exactly a huge expense. Hell, I might even just straighten a bent axle and then truss it!
I had an axle shop in North Georgia fix my bent front D44, it was $195 for their labor.

The axle was trussed with a purejeep truss on the long side...no short side truss as this was before Artec and others made them. Bent the mofo on the short side, fluke thing I guess.

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Last edited by TCdawg; 12-16-2014 at 05:56 AM.
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post #22 of 32 Old 12-16-2014, 06:09 AM
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There have only been a handfull of people I've found across multiple forums (including Pirate) that have broken a properly set up high pinion New Gen D44 ring and pinon, even with 40's.
It happens, even on 37's. This is a rear D44, Ten Factory Chromo's. The ring gear blew up big time. Shafts were fine. Rear end bounced and I didn't let off the throttle enough. You would think the axle shaft would go first but in this case it didn't . Possible bad gear set up, yes, but this wasn't the first wheeling trip on it and it showed no signs of being bad prior to.



I still think nicely set up D44's are solid for up to 37's but wheeling style does matter.

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post #23 of 32 Old 12-16-2014, 07:03 AM
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I did my own labor on mine. Have $160 in the truss and track bar bracket from Artec. Made my own LCA skids and C gussets from scrap. The only reason I would consider an aftermarket housing is if I didnt have fab skills and/or if I wanted caster correction, which I might do at a later date since Im thinking about going up another inch or so.
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post #24 of 32 Old 12-16-2014, 07:05 AM
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Awsome idea but good God those are pricey.
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post #25 of 32 Old 12-16-2014, 07:07 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Robnoxious1 View Post
I did my own labor on mine. Have $160 in the truss and track bar bracket from Artec. Made my own LCA skids and C gussets from scrap. The only reason I would consider an aftermarket housing is if I didnt have fab skills and/or if I wanted caster correction, which I might do at a later date since Im thinking about going up another inch or so.
I have already built my own LCA's and installed those. I will be pulling the axle and welding on the truss/gussets from ARTEC myself so mimimal cost to me on that part. My 4.10's are fine with 35's so no cost there. Only thing left is RCV's and balljoints (synergy are only $200) if/when I break the factory shafts so I think I'll stick with this D44 crowd as long as I can.

I appreciate everyone's advice and knowledge...great info in this thread.

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