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post #1 of 15 Old 06-24-2008, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
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Open diff guys:

do you drag your brakes for traction when you have 1 or more wheels off the ground?

i know the traction control deal does it for you but some times it takes too long to activate and causes you to loose momentum.

or should I just shut up and get some lockers.
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post #2 of 15 Old 06-24-2008, 11:13 AM
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GET SOME LOCKERS
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post #3 of 15 Old 06-24-2008, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
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fine! jeez........
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post #4 of 15 Old 06-24-2008, 12:49 PM
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I donít know how the TC on a Jeep works but on some other vehicles thereís a technique call BTM (Brake Throttle Modulation) that helps trick the TC into acting more like a locker. Basically you hold down both the break and the gas at the same time (probably tricky with a manual), and gradually release the brake but not completely.

Again no idea if this works with an open Jeep but itís very effective on some open H3s Iíve wheeled with in the past.
post #5 of 15 Old 06-24-2008, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Alec W View Post
I donít know how the TC on a Jeep works but on some other vehicles thereís a technique call BTM (Brake Throttle Modulation) that helps trick the TC into acting more like a locker. Basically you hold down both the break and the gas at the same time (probably tricky with a manual), and gradually release the brake but not completely.

Again no idea if this works with an open Jeep but itís very effective on some open H3s Iíve wheeled with in the past.
this is what I do and it has done very well for me so far. Old trick I learned on the farm from the Grandpa


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post #6 of 15 Old 06-24-2008, 03:03 PM
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I learned this weekend that the ELSD in the front doesn't need the brakes to kick in. (It just helps =) I was a bit stuck and was either giving it too much, or too little gas. An observer noted that if I slowly increased the gas, it would kick in, in a moment. And, sure enough, after about 5 seconds of slowly increasing the throttle, the wheel in the air stopped spinning, and I came off the obstacle.

I tried w/ just the ebrake on (vs. the brake pedal) and it took only about a second less to kick in, with the throttle held even.

!c
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post #7 of 15 Old 06-24-2008, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec W View Post
I donít know how the TC on a Jeep works but on some other vehicles thereís a technique call BTM (Brake Throttle Modulation) that helps trick the TC into acting more like a locker. Basically you hold down both the break and the gas at the same time (probably tricky with a manual), and gradually release the brake but not completely.

Again no idea if this works with an open Jeep but itís very effective on some open H3s Iíve wheeled with in the past.
Not too tricky with a manual, use your clutch as its the gas peddle (if that makes any sense?). Slowly release the clutch peddle until you feel it grab, then just play with the break and clutch peddles. I use this technique a lot but maybe having lockers causes things to act differently.
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post #8 of 15 Old 06-24-2008, 03:23 PM
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I use this technique a lot but maybe having lockers causes things to act differently.
Lockers eliminate the need to do anything. Just press the buttons and drive right over
post #9 of 15 Old 06-24-2008, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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ya, i will be going to lockers some day, probably when the 33s wear out i'll do it with a regear and go to 35's or 37's. most likely go to D44 front if 37's make it on there.

im pretty happy with the ECT for now
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post #10 of 15 Old 06-24-2008, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jkdrone View Post
I learned this weekend that the ELSD in the front doesn't need the brakes to kick in. (It just helps =) I was a bit stuck and was either giving it too much, or too little gas. An observer noted that if I slowly increased the gas, it would kick in, in a moment. And, sure enough, after about 5 seconds of slowly increasing the throttle, the wheel in the air stopped spinning, and I came off the obstacle.

I tried w/ just the ebrake on (vs. the brake pedal) and it took only about a second less to kick in, with the throttle held even.

!c
This is the same for open diff. It does not work as well as with the LS but it does still work. When I had an open diff, I drove up a couple tall rocks with only one front tire. If you just barley give it gas and let the tire spin a bit, after a couple seconds you will feel it kick in, the free tire will stop spining and the other tire will begin to get power. Different process happening but same technique. So if you need it to kick in with open diffs, just give it enough gass to rotate the free tire for a couple seconds and the computer will kick in. I tried the LS brake dragging tchnique and I did not notice it kick in any sooner. I think with the Open diffs it needs to sense the tire spinning for a predetirmined amount of time before it kicks in. LS is physically tranfering power whn braking which is not true with open diff

Last edited by WTF_LOL; 06-24-2008 at 05:41 PM.
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post #11 of 15 Old 06-25-2008, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by WTF_LOL View Post
This is the same for open diff. It does not work as well as with the LS but it does still work. When I had an open diff, I drove up a couple tall rocks with only one front tire. If you just barley give it gas and let the tire spin a bit, after a couple seconds you will feel it kick in, the free tire will stop spining and the other tire will begin to get power. Different process happening but same technique. So if you need it to kick in with open diffs, just give it enough gass to rotate the free tire for a couple seconds and the computer will kick in. I tried the LS brake dragging tchnique and I did not notice it kick in any sooner. I think with the Open diffs it needs to sense the tire spinning for a predetirmined amount of time before it kicks in. LS is physically tranfering power whn braking which is not true with open diff
Yeah, when I say "ELSD", I'm referring to the front, open, diff - the owner's manual differentiates the "Electronic Limited Slip" from the "Brake Traction Control/ETC" - I think they differentiate because the two features search for different effects (ELSD looking for a completely spinning wheel for a period of time, BTCS/ETC relying on a sense of direction and wheel rotation). The rear, "actual" LSD (for those that have it) seems much easier to trigger, I give it a more rapid acceleration and it quickly engages.

[ EDIT: They don't actually call it 'ELSD' in the manual, they refer to it as a feature of TCS that "acts like a limited slip", and this feature is distinct amongst the other features, especially in that it remains enabled even when TCS is disabled. Just to clarify any confusion in my post ]

But yeah, you need to spin that wheel for a few seconds before the electronics kick in and stop it. The application of the brakes/e-brake may help by providing friction, but I'm still boggling as to how that would help the front, open diff more than it helps the rear, actual, LSD.

Man, with all of the electronics, I kinda wish they had used something closer to Quadra-Drive II front and rear LSDs (Obviously, the entire system would be a little weak for a wrangler, especially the center LSD) but I found it highly responsive in off-road situations, and the use of clutch-driven, electronically controlled LSD's front and rear made it VERY responsive, on the order of fractions of seconds rather than whole seconds. Admittedly, I'm not sure all of those clutch-pack LSDs would take long-term abuse, but they did drive a commander with it down the Rubicon - with a lot of body damage, of course. =)

!c

Last edited by jkdrone; 06-25-2008 at 07:24 AM.
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post #12 of 15 Old 06-27-2008, 02:12 PM
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Yeah I love the ETC. Compared to open diff wranglers in the past this is way better. I can approach a waterfall, get up on it, spin the tires a little and all four will pull me up. Tire off the ground, no problem a little spin of the tires and I don't even stop moving.

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post #13 of 15 Old 06-27-2008, 05:52 PM
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Correct me if Im wrong, but dosent the ESP get shut off when your in 4low?

(I personaly wouldent know, I cut the wire under the dash to get rid of my ESP issues)

'08 JK, 35's, 5.13's, and a Detroit.
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post #14 of 15 Old 06-27-2008, 06:21 PM
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Correct me if Im wrong, but dosent the ESP get shut off when your in 4low?
es

well, jeep calls it off. There are different levels of off. for example when you hit the ESP off button, some features of esp are off but many are still engaged. In 4-low, most noticeable aspects are diabled but there are still some features that the ECU engages, mostly traction features. I belive most stability fetures disabable in 4 low
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post #15 of 15 Old 06-29-2008, 12:38 AM
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Huh... interesting. Makes me want to go with a selctiable locker up front rather than the Detroit I was going to put in there.

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