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post #1 of 59 Old 11-27-2014, 07:15 PM Thread Starter
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rock krawler vs metal cloak decision

So how do you decide. Making some phone calls to get a Black Friday deal tomorrow on the Rock Krawler 3.5 X-factor or the Metal Cloak 3.5 GameChanger ARB/OME.

Ive read alot on the suspensions and just exhausted to keep trying to figure it out. My Jeep is a daily drive and 35x12.50.15r. These are not cheap kits, at least money wise and would like to get the best bang for the buck.

How would you guys decide on one or the other.

* I would continue to research but like I said tomorrow is Black Friday and Id like to pull the trigger.
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post #2 of 59 Old 11-27-2014, 07:20 PM
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post #3 of 59 Old 11-27-2014, 11:00 PM
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Metal cloak

I currently have the rock Krawler 3.5 X factor...if I had to do it all over I would go with metal cloak. The X factor pushes your rear axle back an inch, keeping the proper pinion angel causes interference between the passenger side bump stop and the track bar bracket. I have personally noticed this issue on one other JKU.

I had to cut an inch off the rear control arms to make everything fit properly.
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post #4 of 59 Old 11-28-2014, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkaikens View Post
I currently have the rock Krawler 3.5 X factor...if I had to do it all over I would go with metal cloak. The X factor pushes your rear axle back an inch, keeping the proper pinion angel causes interference between the passenger side bump stop and the track bar bracket. I have personally noticed this issue on one other JKU.

I had to cut an inch off the rear control arms to make everything fit properly.
Adam, this is the first I've heard about that issue, can you post some pics? I am pretty much set on the X factor 2.5 myself.
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post #5 of 59 Old 11-28-2014, 07:05 AM
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This is a common problem that the fanbois never seem to mention when they tell you how good thier lift is. I have seen it on several JK's. Relocating the frame track bar bracket back 1.5" would be recommended. I would also recommend cutting the coil perches off the top of the axle and rotating them bact to the top of the axle and reweld them to minimize the coil bowing that is also typical with the Rock Krawler kit. They will try to sell you wedges but this is a pretty simple thing to do if you have access to a welder.

Some build info here:
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post #6 of 59 Old 11-28-2014, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkaikens View Post
I currently have the rock Krawler 3.5 X factor...if I had to do it all over I would go with metal cloak. The X factor pushes your rear axle back an inch, keeping the proper pinion angel causes interference between the passenger side bump stop and the track bar bracket. I have personally noticed this issue on one other JKU.

I had to cut an inch off the rear control arms to make everything fit properly.

I had this issue as well the bolt from the trackbar hit the bump stop pad. I trimmed the bolt and shortened the upper arms as well.

2010 2 door manual sport
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post #7 of 59 Old 11-28-2014, 07:17 AM
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Metalcloak.
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post #8 of 59 Old 11-28-2014, 07:47 AM
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rock krawler vs metal cloak decision

Yea RK Does push back the axle quite a bit. Some 2 door guys have issues and end up turning the lowers all the way in.

I've been saving my penny's for arms. Often not mentioned .. RK will custom make any arm length for you.
I have a 2 door and would have the arms +/- about 3/4 ( or 1" max on length over stock) not sure on the amount of adjustment on RK arms.

Both company's get good reviews. I think you'll be happy with RK Or MC, pick your poison

2007 JKR | PSC Big bore box | Rock Krawler 3.5" x-factor arms l SteerSmarts YETI track bar, tie rod, no drill flipped drag link, Griffin | Synergy frame brace | 37x12.5x17 Nitto RG's | Dana front DS | Fox IFP shocks | Artec front armor kit/Currie JJ's | Teraflex rear axle bracket | EVO Rockstars | Ridged D's, A pillar mounts | VKS sliders l Trek Armor seat covers | Superchips/Sprint booster | Savvy half doors w/ Bestop uppers
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post #9 of 59 Old 11-28-2014, 07:53 AM
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It doesn't matter two door or 4 door when you push the axle back an inch and raise the suspension by 3.5" you really need to address the track bar brackets and the mounts on the axle as they become misaligned pretty bad.
Unfortianally these things are not solved by the use of bolt on components for the mechanically challenged.

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post #10 of 59 Old 11-28-2014, 08:05 AM
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Don't know why you want to got with 3.5" lift with 35" tires for a daily driver. 2.5" inch left is plenty for that size tire and will keep your COG low for better handling.


As for the interference issue, RK has offset bump stop pads that solve this issue. I have an RK long arm which caused the same issue and fixed it with the offset pads.


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post #11 of 59 Old 11-28-2014, 10:04 AM
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Our Pro Series Krawler Joint durability has been proven to be very awesome and we will not have you taking apart your joints every year to service them which means you have to take apart your vehicle. The housings come with a lifetime warranty as well.

The X Factor Kits as mentioned before are designed for JK's running flat fenders as all flat fenders that are available place the center of the wheel well arch approximately 1" further back so if you use conventional components the entire axle looks off and not centered!...

If you plan on running OEM fenders, we would recommend running one of our lesser systems or speaking to a dealer or wholesaler or us directly if you want a full 8 arm replacement, but want to run OEM fenders as we can accommodate for that situation. The percentage of people building JK's and running flat fenders is extremely high, we support the low cog mentality and the use of Flat Fenders, hence the existence of this system.

As far as coil bowing is concerned, we are one of the few companies that tries to address it in the systems. Most leave it out. When you lift any vehicle, you will have to rotate the rear pinion in order to get proper driveline angles. This rotates the bottom spring pad mount causing the top and bottom spring pads to be out of parallel which will cause spring bow. We supply a 10 degree correction wedge to try to address it for the masses. There are other solutions out there as dirt man has indicated and each person might have his or her own preferred method.

If the proper bump stops are used (like our offset fabbed units), and the track bar hardware is mounted in there front to back as stated in the instructions, contact will never occur and our rear track bars are designed to take the simple 1" offset which is less than 3 degrees on a bushing (1/40) with no problem. When people try to use our x factor arm package and do not consider all the variables as we have, of course there can be issues, but all of which are easily rectified.

Our Triple Rate Coils are well dialed in and not over stressed so they are very resistant to fade over time...

The control arms in our systems are made from solid alloy steel and guaranteed for life. What are they being compared against?

No matter what you choose, good luck with your build. Choose the product that is best for you and your build.

RK

Last edited by Rock Krawler Suspension; 11-28-2014 at 10:07 AM.
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post #12 of 59 Old 11-28-2014, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkaikens View Post
I currently have the rock Krawler 3.5 X factor...if I had to do it all over I would go with metal cloak. The X factor pushes your rear axle back an inch, keeping the proper pinion angel causes interference between the passenger side bump stop and the track bar bracket. I have personally noticed this issue on one other JKU.

I had to cut an inch off the rear control arms to make everything fit properly.
Adam

Is this with our bump stops or others? We are pretty confident that is very easily resolved and we have the proper provisions for it...

We find the biggest issue is the combination of components people use with our products... We are always here to help and our phones are on everyday so there is no reason to guess.. We have some of the best techs in the industry. We build all kinds of stuff here from mild Jeeps, to off-road race vehicles. We have seen it all...

RK
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post #13 of 59 Old 11-28-2014, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
This is a common problem that the fanbois never seem to mention when they tell you how good thier lift is. I have seen it on several JK's. Relocating the frame track bar bracket back 1.5" would be recommended. I would also recommend cutting the coil perches off the top of the axle and rotating them bact to the top of the axle and reweld them to minimize the coil bowing that is also typical with the Rock Krawler kit. They will try to sell you wedges but this is a pretty simple thing to do if you have access to a welder.
For the not so faint of heart, we do offer weld on spring pads and a weld on rear frame side track bar bracket... We have to use the weld on spring pads for the 1.5" X Factor Systems as the springs are not long enough to perform a correction with just spring wedges.

Again, our rear track bars are designed to be able to take a 1" offset as 1" offset over the length of a 40" track bar is not a great angle. As the suspension cycles on a mid arm system, the axle moves forward and aft way more than 1", so if a track bar cannot take that, it is in trouble anyway.

RK
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post #14 of 59 Old 11-28-2014, 10:27 AM
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I saw the weld on pads and was wondering why they were only included with the 1.5 kits. Good to know.

2007 JKR | PSC Big bore box | Rock Krawler 3.5" x-factor arms l SteerSmarts YETI track bar, tie rod, no drill flipped drag link, Griffin | Synergy frame brace | 37x12.5x17 Nitto RG's | Dana front DS | Fox IFP shocks | Artec front armor kit/Currie JJ's | Teraflex rear axle bracket | EVO Rockstars | Ridged D's, A pillar mounts | VKS sliders l Trek Armor seat covers | Superchips/Sprint booster | Savvy half doors w/ Bestop uppers
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post #15 of 59 Old 11-28-2014, 10:33 AM
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We try to do things that are as customer friendly as possible, but sometimes there is no getting around what is required by the basics of geometry... That is one of those times...

RK
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post #16 of 59 Old 11-28-2014, 11:55 AM
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As a dealer I have had guys come in that bought their system at another shop and have seen the bump stop problem. If you use the offset bump stops from RK with the kit you will not have any problem. Our shop rig has the 3.5" Long arm system and we have not had any issues. You won't find a better ride on road and the quality of parts and service is top notch.
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post #17 of 59 Old 11-28-2014, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Krawler Suspension View Post
Adam

Is this with our bump stops or others? We are pretty confident that is very easily resolved and we have the proper provisions for it...

We find the biggest issue is the combination of components people use with our products... We are always here to help and our phones are on everyday so there is no reason to guess.. We have some of the best techs in the industry. We build all kinds of stuff here from mild Jeeps, to off-road race vehicles. We have seen it all...

RK

This is with your angled bump stops, as well as turning the upper track bar bracket bolt around. cutting an inch off the control arms was my ABSOLUTE last idea to correct this. It felt really defeating and a waste of money in doing so, however I had been in contact with 2 individuals at your company. No real solution was given and I seemed to get the run around. I'm not bashing the company...I believe it may have been around the time frame of EJS this year that this was going on. When I return home tomorrow I can post a few images. I'm sure I still have the email traffic to the rock Krawler tech email as we'll.
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post #18 of 59 Old 11-29-2014, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkaikens View Post
This is with your angled bump stops, as well as turning the upper track bar bracket bolt around. cutting an inch off the control arms was my ABSOLUTE last idea to correct this. It felt really defeating and a waste of money in doing so, however I had been in contact with 2 individuals at your company. No real solution was given and I seemed to get the run around. I'm not bashing the company...I believe it may have been around the time frame of EJS this year that this was going on. When I return home tomorrow I can post a few images. I'm sure I still have the email traffic to the rock Krawler tech email as we'll.

Curious, what your pinion angle was in relation to the driveshaft ?

2007 JKR | PSC Big bore box | Rock Krawler 3.5" x-factor arms l SteerSmarts YETI track bar, tie rod, no drill flipped drag link, Griffin | Synergy frame brace | 37x12.5x17 Nitto RG's | Dana front DS | Fox IFP shocks | Artec front armor kit/Currie JJ's | Teraflex rear axle bracket | EVO Rockstars | Ridged D's, A pillar mounts | VKS sliders l Trek Armor seat covers | Superchips/Sprint booster | Savvy half doors w/ Bestop uppers
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post #19 of 59 Old 11-29-2014, 09:09 PM
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I don't remember for certain...I believe it was down 3* from the drive shaft. I spent the better part of a week adjusting the pinion angle, driving, removing springs and lifting the suspension to check for contact between the Rock Krawler angled bump stop and the upper track bar bolt.
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post #20 of 59 Old 11-30-2014, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPMFAB View Post
We are a RK dealer, I can tell you that you won't be disappointed. Their quality and ride is incredible.
What he said!!!! The ride is superior to fatory IMHO

If you're gonna be fucking weird, own it.

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post #21 of 59 Old 11-30-2014, 08:26 AM
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RK is better than the factory ride for sure. So is every quality lift with better rate springs and matched valving shocks.
I am in the process of swapping out my RK control arms as they fail. The warranty does not cover bushings, or wear on the joint threads. Retourquing weekly is not enough apparently.
RK arms themselves are holding up to moderate abuse, but I am tired of fixing bushings.
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post #22 of 59 Old 11-30-2014, 08:33 AM
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No one warrants bushings.
Do use Blue Loctite on the threads, I've never had to re-torque.

Dealer for: MoTech, Atlas, Dynatrac, Rock Krawler, ORO, Currie, Poison Spyder, Bilstein, Fox, SWAY-A-WAY, Ridid, Adams and Tom Woods DS's. And much more!


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post #23 of 59 Old 11-30-2014, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feed back. I have until "Cyber Money" to make my decision. I would actually go with Metal Cloak but they only discount is free shipping. A Rock Krawler distributer was able to quote me $1500 on the RK 3.5X factor and $75 a shock Bilstein 5100. (free shipping) I think thats a great deal at $1800 out the door. Again, Id like to go MC but at roughly $2700, I cant justify not giving RK a try. Again I hear they are both great companys but as stated above.....!
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post #24 of 59 Old 11-30-2014, 12:18 PM
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There will be haters against any and all brands. *cough*SLADE!!*cough*

Yes, MetalCloak is very high quality, and very expensive.

For my needs, RockKrawler met and exceeded my expectations. I love RK and am very happy with my choice.
RockKrawler is very prevalent on many forums, and always available to help.

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Last edited by Acey; 11-30-2014 at 12:21 PM.
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post #25 of 59 Old 12-01-2014, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coilrod View Post
RK is better than the factory ride for sure. So is every quality lift with better rate springs and matched valving shocks.
I am in the process of swapping out my RK control arms as they fail. The warranty does not cover bushings, or wear on the joint threads. Retourquing weekly is not enough apparently.
RK arms themselves are holding up to moderate abuse, but I am tired of fixing bushings.
Are you sure you are achieving proper torque on the jam nuts and using the advised red loctite? The torque spec is 250 to 300 ft-lbs on that location and the only way we have ever seen a failure of the threads is because the torque was not achieved. This is not just an RK issue, but an issue with everyone who uses Jam nuts or clinch bolts. If the threads are not preloaded properly, they will eventually fail. If the threads were actually "bad", they would have failed our thread gages, but they would also fail right away, even when trying to achieve proper torque of the jam nuts the threads would strip out. It would not take a long period of time for that to happen. The above are engineering facts and not trying to be argumentative at all. If a thread failure happened within 30 days then something is definitely wrong. If it takes a year or more for example without proper jam nut torque, then it is not the threads. This goes for any manufacturer, not just us...

Please let us help you as the two issues could be related, if the jam nuts is loose and the joint housing is rotated over, you could have no misalignment to be used for operation which certainly could cause a bushing issue...

RK

Last edited by Rock Krawler Suspension; 12-01-2014 at 07:35 AM.
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