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post #1 of 32 Old 09-14-2014, 12:03 AM Thread Starter
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Wrecked Jeep...Insurance questions

On September 5th I was headed to work on the highway, a lady in a ford ran a stop sign, and we collided. The police came and issued her a ticket for failure to stop at the stop sign. I contacted my insurance company to notify them of the accident and started a claim. I told them that I would like to go through the other ladies insurance, since she was at fault.My company said that's fine, but the will come out and do an estimate to get the ball rolling. I called her insurance company to get a claim started on day, and haven't heard anything out of them since 9 days ago.

My company said the can settle with me and go after her company to get reimbursed. The only problem is they don't want to pay for any of my extra "aftermarket" parts, since I didn't pay for the extra coverage, along with a rental car. They will only cover $1000 worth of extras, I gave them a list of $7000 worth. My Jeep is totaled, they will pay $23,500 for the jeep and $1000 for parts.

Questions...

Does her insurance company have to respond to me in a certain amount of time?

Is her company liable for getting me a rental car?

If I settle with my company, can I go after her company for the difference in parts?

What would you do????
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post #2 of 32 Old 09-14-2014, 06:55 AM
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Wow, I was just pondering a "what if" like this. Settlement with yours vs hers, etc. is fairly common. That is, it's often easiest for your insurance company to do the inspection and settle up with you, then bill her insurance for the damages. They have the internal processes to do this to the satisfaction of both companies. You're not hearing from her insurance because they don't have a contract with you.

As for your aftermarket parts, that may be a tough one for you. If you don't carry "customization" coverage on your policy your insurance company isn't going to pay, and her's will likely say they won't pay for anything you didn't have insured on your policy. You may be able to get them to pony up but I'd suspect your only course of action would be to get her to pay for it hereself, and that probably won't happen.

I used to have Liberty Mutual and had all the stuff on my rig covered, line by line. I had to give them receipts and a complete rundown of everything. When I switched to GEICO they didn't ask for any of that, just added some lines to the policy with a total cost for the mods. These depreciate along with the Jeep. The scenario in my head was "what happens if" the exact situation you describe were to occur. Hmmmm.....

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Last edited by SoK66; 09-15-2014 at 07:43 AM.
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post #3 of 32 Old 09-14-2014, 06:58 AM
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By the way, you can remove any aftermarket parts on the rig your insurance won't pay for. So, if you had a nice set of wheels & tires, winch, bumpers, etc. and they won't pay, then by all means remove them. The rig and everything on it is still your property. To do so you'll have to refuse their $1,000 offer. You may be bucks ahead if that happens.

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post #4 of 32 Old 09-14-2014, 07:05 AM
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Go thru her insurance company. You do not have customization on yours but hers is liable to pay for all damages. If they are not returning your calls/emails etc. Look into contacting your states insurance commissioner. They will most likely get the ball quickly rolling as once they question a claim especially with a ticket involved that insurance company is under a bright spot light.
Hope this helps
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post #5 of 32 Old 09-14-2014, 07:44 AM
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You have no reason at this time to contact your own insurance company if the other driver was indeed cited.

Yes there is generally a time-frame as to what is acceptable in regards to the insurance company taking an active role in getting things moving, but state laws vary so it would be best ( if you feel that her insurance company is dragging their heels) to find out what they can do to get the ball rolling more quickly.

In terms of a rental car. It depends on the insurance company and the fine lines of the contract. Sometimes it is a reimbursable cost meaning that you have to pay out of pocket initially. There can also be other stipulations or restrictions such as that they will only pay up to a certain amt of mileage, days, etc. You need to find out what the details are on this from her insurance company.

Do NOT wait around for her insurance company to call you, return calls, etc. To a very slight degree you need to be patient but if you reach a point where you realistically feel that they aren't working with you, or that they're taking too long, or that they aren't adequately answering your questions, then you need to ( and have every right to) start bombarding them with calls and let them know that you will be contacting the State Insurance Board ( or whatever it is called in your particular state) so that that agency can help you get this thing settled. That will usually get them moving along a little faster.

Good ( reputable) insurance companies generally are a lot better about following the rules and trying to get you ( the victim) taken care of. Other more "fly by night" lower rated ins companies can sometimes be a nightmare to deal with and may not always let you know everything that you're entitled to know. Sometimes they will take a LOT longer than what they should in regards to getting things resolved.

Good luck.

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post #6 of 32 Old 09-14-2014, 08:39 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies, I haven't thought about going to the state insurance board, I did think about threatening them with a lawyer, but didn't know if that would do any good. I've never been in an accident before, that I couldn't drive away from, so this is new to me. Does waiting over a week for a response from them seem reasonable?

As far as parts depreciating, I've only have the Jeep since April, all of the parts have been on there since May and June. Basically the only parts that are salvageable are 3 AEV wheels and 3 35" tires. Alot of the parts I have bought second hand, and don't have receipts for. I printed of a list of all the parts from Quadratecs website, and gave a copy to my insurance adjuster and the bodyshop for their estimates. I also have a wheeling trip planned for 2 weeks from now, that likely I wont be able to make.
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post #7 of 32 Old 09-14-2014, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14BWRUBI View Post
Go thru her insurance company. You do not have customization on yours but hers is liable to pay for all damages. If they are not returning your calls/emails etc. Look into contacting your states insurance commissioner. They will most likely get the ball quickly rolling as once they question a claim especially with a ticket involved that insurance company is under a bright spot light.
Hope this helps
Good luck
This is correct. Your insurance is not liable for coverage that you didn't pay for. Her insurance is only liable up to the amount of property damage she has on her policy. She, however, is liable for all damage to your vehicle or property. Anything not covered by her policy can be sued for, so be careful before you sign any settlement and make sure you are getting everything.
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post #8 of 32 Old 09-14-2014, 02:52 PM
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Just thinking out loud here, so anyone with actual knowledge, feel free to correct me.

Is there a difference between adding accessories or replacing accessories? For example, if you bought a new PSC BFH bumper, you actually removed a OEM Mopar bumper that costs more than the PSC. So you're not "adding" any value. Flipping through a Quadratec catalong, replacing a complete front stock bumper with Mopar parts is over $1000.

Same with wheels. Mopar wheels are expensive. I believe the Rubicon wheels cost around $350 a piece. So if those were replaced with AEV Pintler's ($230), you'd be in the hole.

Could the insurance company say:
"Fine, we'll pay you for your damaged wheels, but we are totalling out a Rubicon, where are our Rubicon wheels? You replaced more expensive OEM parts that may be sitting in your garage with inferior aftermarket parts so we will lower the value of your Jeep accordingly".

Now, if you have a 50" Rigid light bar that was damaged, then that is an add on that needs to be reimbursed.

Just wondering. Am I way off base?
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post #9 of 32 Old 09-14-2014, 06:59 PM
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Here's the thing. I just had this conversation with an adjuster a month and a half ago. Yes there is an extra coverage for custom parts. However, much of the time these "custom" parts can be less expensive than OEM replacement parts. For instance, a brand new Raceline monster beadlock can be had at about 300$. Whereas a brand new OEM jeep Rubi wheel is around 400$. I fell on the hood of my Jeep from a ladder and got more than enough to get an AEV hood with paint and then some. I refused to accept anything but Mopar OEM hood with cost of paint and labor to install. Speak to the shop before you choose one and advise them that you want to replace the parts with what you had or something you want. They should work with you or take it to another shop. I wrecked my TJ and they replaced the ARB bumper and some other stuff.

If you are trying to get light bars and shit replaced well that is a different story.

I know an adjuster and a claims where FLO works. The advice I was given
1. Refuse anything but brand new Mopar OEM parts. That way you get more money. Nicely decline anything that does not satisfy you.
2. Carry on about how your jeep is your pride and joy.
3. Be cool to the adjuster.
4. Make sure you get several estimates as you get to choose the shop.
5. Make sure you speak to the shop about the parts you want before going to them.
6. Also, some insurance companies have a clause to where you can actually easily get $10k for medical expenses. (Was told by my insurance associates about this clause and the ease of getting it). If you wanna get 47%ish.

Good luck
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post #10 of 32 Old 09-14-2014, 08:02 PM
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Your $7k in aftermarket parts might equate to $2k in actual value.......nobody is responsible for the adds, just replacing the value of the vehicle itself.....most of us have spent tons in aftermarket parts, and they rarely yield a bunch of money at time of sale.....most people actually would prefer a spotless, stock rig....we are the 1%ers....

Best you can do is check out the large traffic forums, look for vehicles similar to yours in adds, and see what they are actually selling for (not what they are asking)....

Also, where are they getting the $23500? What type of rig do you have with what adds? If you could truly sell it for $26k or so, you need to fight it.....if you have a good insurance company, and that $23500 represents Nada Clean Trade value, or better, and they are also giving you $1k, that might not be so bad.

Do some hard research on forums and Autotrader, get a feeling for what your vehicle is actually worth with the adds.....if you are getting shafted, fight it, but if it's fair, don't get all butthurt just because you don't get reimbursed for adds that don't equate to resale value.

It's pretty typical to get paid by your own insurance company, and then they fight the other company....they have a vested interest to get reimbursed, but make sure the offer they provide is fair market value for your vehicle in stock form, plus the $1k.....that value might be higher than they are offering currently.

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post #11 of 32 Old 09-14-2014, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da20captain View Post

4. Make sure you get several estimates as you get to choose the shop.
5. Make sure you speak to the shop about the parts you want before going to them.
6. Also, some insurance companies have a clause to where you can actually easily get $10k for medical expenses. (Was told by my insurance associates about this clause and the ease of getting it). If you wanna get 47%ish.

Good luck
The jeep is totaled, $19000 worth of damage, according to the shop and my adjuster, so nothing is going to be replaced.... I would like to know more about #6, as Flo maybe involved in this case.
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post #12 of 32 Old 09-14-2014, 10:20 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Big Perm View Post
Your $7k in aftermarket parts might equate to $2k in actual value.......nobody is responsible for the adds, just replacing the value of the vehicle itself.....most of us have spent tons in aftermarket parts, and they rarely yield a bunch of money at time of sale.....most people actually would prefer a spotless, stock rig....we are the 1%ers....

Best you can do is check out the large traffic forums, look for vehicles similar to yours in adds, and see what they are actually selling for (not what they are asking)....

Also, where are they getting the $23500? What type of rig do you have with what adds? If you could truly sell it for $26k or so, you need to fight it.....if you have a good insurance company, and that $23500 represents Nada Clean Trade value, or better, and they are also giving you $1k, that might not be so bad.

Do some hard research on forums and Autotrader, get a feeling for what your vehicle is actually worth with the adds.....if you are getting shafted, fight it, but if it's fair, don't get all butthurt just because you don't get reimbursed for adds that don't equate to resale value.

It's pretty typical to get paid by your own insurance company, and then they fight the other company....they have a vested interest to get reimbursed, but make sure the offer they provide is fair market value for your vehicle in stock form, plus the $1k.....that value might be higher than they are offering currently.

Good luck.
The $23500 was the retail value my company used, it is a 2011 JK sport with 40k miles. As far as extras, it is lift, wheels, tires, flares, gears, lockers, chromo shafts, and a couple other small things.
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post #13 of 32 Old 09-15-2014, 07:48 AM
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"tough love" sorry your Jeep is totalled. I have been there.

trying to hide the add ons from your insurance co so you don't pay a higher premium will equate to you not being paid extra for them when the vehicle is totalled. just a fact of life. Many people don't realize that if someone hits your vehicle their insurance only has to pay out what your vehicle is insured for. another words as stock unless you specifically pay for custom insurance.

if you threaten them with a lawyer they will laugh, because not a lawyer in the country will take a damage claim for a case. they make nothing on it. if there were no injuries you won't get an atty.

your insurance paying your claim and going after the other ins is pretty much the norm in most cases. I have had the other person's ins actually pay out a claim to me twice over the years and those were low dollar value claims.

sometimes it depends on who they are insured by. One had USAA, they were awesome, paid 100% of damge and rental car and I had to do nothing to get it going.

One had State Farm, they were a little tougher but not bad to deal with.

if her company isn't talking to you, let your company handle it and then go after them.
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post #14 of 32 Old 09-15-2014, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeep44 View Post
The $23500 was the retail value my company used, it is a 2011 JK sport with 40k miles. As far as extras, it is lift, wheels, tires, flares, gears, lockers, chromo shafts, and a couple other small things.
But those are not extras. You replaced OEM wheels for aftermarket wheels, OEM flares for aftermarket flares, etc. And in most cases, the aftermarket parts are cheaper than the OEM Mopar parts you replaced. Plus you said you bought some of the parts second hand (with no receipts), so that's even cheaper. In the insurance eyes, you did not add any value to the Jeep.

Good luck.
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post #15 of 32 Old 09-15-2014, 08:52 PM
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Can none of that aftermarket stuff be salvaged? I'd pull the gears, lockers and all the small things. 3 wheels is better than 0. Find someone with a set of steel take off wheels on craiglist and make them your sacrifice.

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post #16 of 32 Old 09-15-2014, 10:13 PM
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The laws are different in every state, but...

No company in a liability claim is obligated to replace parts with new OEM parts unless your rig is brand new and still they may not have to. You have 3 year old, used parts on your Jeep, so that's what they have to replace.

The value of aftermarket replacement parts is generally lower than the stock parts, so as stated earlier they don't add value. Accessories added do add value and are usually added to the value.

The insurance company is never going to accept liability if they do not talk to THEIR insured. That could be the reason they have not contacted you. I would not wait more than a day to call them. Once a day is not unreasonable. Ask why they are not contacting you to settle the claim. If it is because they have not heard from their insured ask them how long it will be before they send you a letter denying coverage for the claim. Usually it will be handled as an uninsured motorist claim by your insurance company if the claim is denied by the other persons insurance company. In this case your company will handle it just as if they were liable to someone else, basically they take over as the liable party. You will then be able to get rental reimbursement and anything else the other person would be liable to pay i.e. additional accessories. There is usually case law that determines what companies have to pay for additional accessories. Call your state's insurance department. They usually know what it is.

If you accept settlement on the claim it is very difficult to get more from the person that hit you. The insurance company is paying on behalf of their insured and anything the insured is liable for they are required to pay. Once you settle the claim, unless something "new"(hidden damage) comes up you will not be able to collect more. When there is a total loss something "new" will not come up. There is an instance where this is not the case. I will explain later.

You can argue that the lift added value. If there is a dealer selling lifted Jeeps it's possible to show them that they sell for more. Find a new lifted JK on a dealer lot. They usually separate the price of the Jeep and the lift. They can use the same factor for depreciation on the lift that they would anything else. You can also search for used lifted Jeeps as examples of what it would cost to replace yours. Their insured is obligated to return you to pre-accident condition.

The insurance company is not obligated to pay more than the amount of coverage their insured has on their policy. She could have purchased low limits of coverage for property damage and they may not be enough to cover your claim. If this is the case she is still obligated to pay, but not the insurance company. This is the instance I mentioned earlier. You can try to get the additional money from her, but you have to do it legally. Find out what you can and can not do. If you bug her or ask in the wrong way you could be breaking the law. The other option in this instance is underinsured motorist coverage. It works in a similar way as uninsured motorist. You use your coverage and your insurance company acts as though they insure the responsible party to pay where her coverage stopped. Not all stated have uninsured or underinsured motorist coverage and some states allow you to waive it, so you need to check your policy for it and the limits you carry.

An example of underinsured motorist coverage would be:

She has $15,000 in coverage for property damage liability and your JK is worth $25,000. Her contract with the insurance company is for them to pay up to $15,000 for property damage she is liable for, but it does not relieve her obligation to return you to pre-crash condition. She still owes you $10,000. If you have enough underinsured coverage on your policy you use your coverage and they will try to get the money from her. If you do not have coverage you sue her.

Good luck, I hope everything goes smooth

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post #17 of 32 Old 09-16-2014, 07:03 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks again for the replies. I guess the lack of communication from her company is/was pissing me off more then anything. If they would have gotten me a rental car off the bat, and told me it may it make take some time to settle, I'd a been a lot more happy. I wasn't trying to hide the parts from insurance company, I wasn't planning on doing anything to this Jeep, just leaving it stock and driving to work and back. I can't leave anything alone though, and started adding parts, but didn't even think about upgrading my insurance,until after the fact, my other jeep does have all the extra insurance. The reason I am wanting to go through her company, is because the $500 deductible and my premium will go up if I go through mine.

Last edited by Jeep44; 09-16-2014 at 07:39 AM.
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post #18 of 32 Old 09-16-2014, 09:21 AM
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I might have missed it but has the lady that hit you contacted her insurance company?? This really starts the whole process...If she hasnt talked to them they will not talk to you.
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post #19 of 32 Old 09-16-2014, 10:11 AM
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Sometimes bodily injury takes time to manifest itself. Make a doctors appointment about the severe debilitating back and neck pain that has appeared. Fuck insurance companies before they fuck you. Know what I mean Vern?

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post #20 of 32 Old 09-16-2014, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASSFROW View Post
The laws are different in every state, but...

No company in a liability claim is obligated to replace parts with new OEM parts unless your rig is brand new and still they may not have to. You have 3 year old, used parts on your Jeep, so that's what they have to replace.

The value of aftermarket replacement parts is generally lower than the stock parts, so as stated earlier they don't add value. Accessories added do add value and are usually added to the value.

The insurance company is never going to accept liability if they do not talk to THEIR insured. That could be the reason they have not contacted you. I would not wait more than a day to call them. Once a day is not unreasonable. Ask why they are not contacting you to settle the claim. If it is because they have not heard from their insured ask them how long it will be before they send you a letter denying coverage for the claim. Usually it will be handled as an uninsured motorist claim by your insurance company if the claim is denied by the other persons insurance company. In this case your company will handle it just as if they were liable to someone else, basically they take over as the liable party. You will then be able to get rental reimbursement and anything else the other person would be liable to pay i.e. additional accessories. There is usually case law that determines what companies have to pay for additional accessories. Call your state's insurance department. They usually know what it is.

If you accept settlement on the claim it is very difficult to get more from the person that hit you. The insurance company is paying on behalf of their insured and anything the insured is liable for they are required to pay. Once you settle the claim, unless something "new"(hidden damage) comes up you will not be able to collect more. When there is a total loss something "new" will not come up. There is an instance where this is not the case. I will explain later.

You can argue that the lift added value. If there is a dealer selling lifted Jeeps it's possible to show them that they sell for more. Find a new lifted JK on a dealer lot. They usually separate the price of the Jeep and the lift. They can use the same factor for depreciation on the lift that they would anything else. You can also search for used lifted Jeeps as examples of what it would cost to replace yours. Their insured is obligated to return you to pre-accident condition.

The insurance company is not obligated to pay more than the amount of coverage their insured has on their policy. She could have purchased low limits of coverage for property damage and they may not be enough to cover your claim. If this is the case she is still obligated to pay, but not the insurance company. This is the instance I mentioned earlier. You can try to get the additional money from her, but you have to do it legally. Find out what you can and can not do. If you bug her or ask in the wrong way you could be breaking the law. The other option in this instance is underinsured motorist coverage. It works in a similar way as uninsured motorist. You use your coverage and your insurance company acts as though they insure the responsible party to pay where her coverage stopped. Not all stated have uninsured or underinsured motorist coverage and some states allow you to waive it, so you need to check your policy for it and the limits you carry.

An example of underinsured motorist coverage would be:

She has $15,000 in coverage for property damage liability and your JK is worth $25,000. Her contract with the insurance company is for them to pay up to $15,000 for property damage she is liable for, but it does not relieve her obligation to return you to pre-crash condition. She still owes you $10,000. If you have enough underinsured coverage on your policy you use your coverage and they will try to get the money from her. If you do not have coverage you sue her.

Good luck, I hope everything goes smooth
[QUOTE=JKWho;2836489]I might have missed it but has the lady that hit you contacted her insurance company?? This really starts the whole process...If she hasnt talked to them they will not talk to you.[/QUO



That's not true you can demand oem parts to be used. Atleast in Az. I had a 93 Suburban and in 04 was hit had all oem parts replacement done.

Time to see Doc.

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post #21 of 32 Old 09-17-2014, 06:30 AM
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i would call her insurance co now (if she even has valid insurance) dont wait any longer. all those great commercials make it seem like "flo" is your friend, but shes not. Also you can argue about what they are trying to pay you. do a little research at local dealers for a similar jeep (no mods) . i do agree about taking what you can off the jeep but you need to have replacements to go back on, you cant take the ring and pinions and leave axles empty, or all the wheels and leave it with no wheels. good luck and keep us updated

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post #22 of 32 Old 09-18-2014, 08:01 AM Thread Starter
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Just a little update....Yesterday morning Sept.17, I finally received a call from her insurance company, they said they are coming to look at my Jeep and they'd have the rental car company give me a call yesterday morning also. They called back today and said they checked out the Jeep, but its going to take them some time to determine a value...still no rental car though.
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post #23 of 32 Old 09-18-2014, 10:41 AM
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glad you finally got in contact with them. BTW just for future reference if your company pays out on a wreck that was not your fault, they are just helping their client. your deductible does not apply and your rates will not go up. they get their money back from her company.
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post #24 of 32 Old 09-18-2014, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildchild View Post
glad you finally got in contact with them. BTW just for future reference if your company pays out on a wreck that was not your fault, they are just helping their client. your deductible does not apply and your rates will not go up. they get their money back from her company.
Your collision deductible does apply. Your company will reimburse you when they recover the money from the responsible person's company. You will also be limited to the rental reimbursement on your policy if you have it at all.

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What is wrong with stupid people? Never mind
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If I'm gonna kiss a man, I want it to be hard and rough... not gay!
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post #25 of 32 Old 09-18-2014, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by sahara mist View Post


That's not true you can demand oem parts to be used. Atleast in Az. I had a 93 Suburban and in 04 was hit had all oem parts replacement done.

Time to see Doc.
According to the NAIC that is not the case:

Arizona

Crash Parts – In Arizona, the vehicle owner has the right to know that non-OEM parts will be used in the repair, and see a listing of those parts on an estimate, prior to work taking place.

The logo or name of the manufacturer of all non-OEM parts must be affixed to
or inscribed on the part.

The vehicle owner must be given notice that any warranties that apply to the
non-OEM parts will be provided by the manufacturer or distributor of the parts
and not the manufacturer of the vehicle.

Insurer violations of these regulations are considered to be unfair claim
settlement practices.

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If I'm gonna kiss a man, I want it to be hard and rough... not gay!
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