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post #1 of 36 Old 08-06-2014, 10:55 AM
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First jeep, what to start with

Have a 4x4 history, had a full trail rig so general knowledge is ok but never had a jeep.

Looking at picking up a 2008-2012 rubicon unlimited 4 door for family comfortability and cargo room.

What I want to achieve is:

1. Good roadability, this will be my daily driver.
2. Good offroad ability
3. Take my 7 year old daughter to the "baby trails" and hit a mud hole or a small rock ledge and then drive home. Not looking to destroy this thing like my buggy years ago, 35 years old now and have calmed down since my 20's, lol.

Things that are a must.

35" tires
winch
rock sliders
must be able to tow my 19' bass tracker

How do I achieve those?
Which lift to get? Keep in mind I might want to go to a 37" tire later down the road.
Do I need hydro assist steering? I had full hydro on my buggy with 42's.
What size winch? Warn 8,000lb sufficient?
Is the factory roll cage sufficient and does it run all the way to the windshield?

Anything else you would suggest for a newbie jeep owner?
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post #2 of 36 Old 08-06-2014, 05:49 PM
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Buy one already built will be cheaper than doing it yourself...

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post #3 of 36 Old 08-06-2014, 05:58 PM
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Get a 2012 model. You'll be ahead of the power game. You gonna pay close to new for a '12, and a bit more for one with modifications.

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post #4 of 36 Old 08-06-2014, 06:17 PM
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Buy one already built will be cheaper than doing it yourself...



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post #5 of 36 Old 08-06-2014, 06:20 PM
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First jeep, what to start with

I suggest reading through the forum sticky's. Many popular kits out there. Everybody has their personal favorites. Research, look through people's builds .. Ask questions. Build the jeep around how you're going to use it.

For a 37"/4 door I would run 2.5/3" max. Hydro is a popular option w/ 37's plus. I believe there is a DIY writeup on tapping the stock box. Add cylinder, hoses, fittings etc ($300-$400)

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post #6 of 36 Old 08-07-2014, 10:53 AM
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going to 37's will definite exacerbate any shortcomings in the lift itself and thus to make it correct, it will be very costly. I have built a lot of wranglers and it seems to me that i was most satisfied with 35 inch tires. If this is truly going to be a daily driver and you do not want to "fight" it down the road, I would emphatically suggest the AEV 2.5 lift kit. It has excellent road manners and addresses all the issues associated with changing lift/ steering geometry. I have been on the toughest trails in Moab and survived on 35"s. If you do 37's it will totally change the way your vehicle drives, especially if you do a lift high enough to accommodate them and still be able to flex out. Full hydro will make it float down the road with no steering wheel feedback. You will get a lot of opinions but i can tell you that these things are super capable out of the box and the more simple you keep it the more you and your family will enjoy it. I had a couple that I built with 37's and fully adjustable suspensions that flexxed like mad but on the road.......they were crap and every time i drove it it was more of a chore than a pleasure. Good luck with your decisions.
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post #7 of 36 Old 08-07-2014, 12:07 PM
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billyjk7, thank you for the explanations. This is the exact info I was looking for. 2012 mo power, 35's, AEV 2.5 lift, drive good and have some fun. I'm sure I'll have some other questions once I get it but for now, big thanks.

What size winch and what brand of bumpers?
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post #8 of 36 Old 08-07-2014, 12:16 PM
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You can spend a lot of money on bumpers and a good winch......about 3 grand .......if it is just a daily driver and you would use the winch just for those oops moments, I would just get a smittybilt xrc winch with synthetic rope and bumpers are purely subjective but don't go cheap. Consider a rear bumper with integrated tire carrier that is connected to the tailgate. Makes it easier to access the cargo area. A good brand to consider thst is reasonably priced yet strong and we'll built is LoD.
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post #9 of 36 Old 08-07-2014, 02:19 PM
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First thing you should do is is get you an AMEX! Just kidding. This site is obviously a wealth of knowledge and information. If you can stand it take your time reading this site seeing what others have and do with their rigs. Marcus from River City Offroad is a great guy and straight shooter, Northridge 4x4 are a good bunch as well. They will also be able to offer sound advice regarding your specific aspirations. Frequently there are some really nice rigs for sale on this site but then again half the fun is building them. If the true Jeep spirit gets into your soul it will be an addiction with no other known cure aside from death maybe. From my experience you will always want more so keep that in mind. In the long run it is cheaper to spend more in the beginning.
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post #10 of 36 Old 08-08-2014, 12:07 PM
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Working with the wife about the cost right now. Throw on a front bumper/winch and some ACE rock rails and go have some fun. Found this one for $34,000

2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon
-AEV 3.5" Lift
-AEV rear bumper w/ tire carrier
-AEV Beadlock Wheels w/ 35" Mickey Thompson MTZ
-Built in Navigation w/ premium Rockford Fosgate speakers and sub

This JK has 39,000 miles on it and has really been taken care of. It's my wife's car so there was very minimal off road usage. There is nothing wrong with this car. You can email me for specific questions or picture requests. I will give you my phone number to talk to me if you are a serious buyer.

Last edited by stretch79; 08-08-2014 at 12:13 PM.
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post #11 of 36 Old 08-08-2014, 03:54 PM
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My advice would be to stick with 35's unless you want to lift 4" or more. 3 inches of lift on 37's is not enough for offroading.

You need 4.56 gears.

8,000 lb. winch is a little small, but probably fine for you.

There are plenty of good rock sliders to choose from. Take your pick.

No assisted steering is necessary.
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post #12 of 36 Old 08-08-2014, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rage View Post
My advice would be to stick with 35's unless you want to lift 4" or more. 3 inches of lift on 37's is not enough for offroading.

You need 4.56 gears.

8,000 lb. winch is a little small, but probably fine for you.

There are plenty of good rock sliders to choose from. Take your pick.

No assisted steering is necessary.
Are you saying 3" of lift is not enough to run 37s off-road or that 3" lift and 37s will not give enough belly height?

RK 2.5 Triple Rate Coils, MC control arms, 40" Trail Grapplers.
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post #13 of 36 Old 08-08-2014, 08:57 PM
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My advice would be to stick with 35's unless you want to lift 4" or more. 3 inches of lift on 37's is not enough for offroading.


2.5 to 3.5", flat fenders and 37's will run all day. What the hell are you talking about?

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post #14 of 36 Old 08-09-2014, 02:15 AM
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In my opinion AEV is junk don't waste your money. If your gonna spend the money on a lift buy either Rock Krawler, Teraflex, metalcloak or Poly Performance. I would lean towards the poly performance, it seems like just about everything they build is top quality. The AEV lifts give you drop brackets and right hand drive drag link. No thanks once again this is just my 2 cents.


And just to point out I have 37's on a 3 inch lift, so I'm not sure what some of these other guys are saying about lift sizes.

Good luck and welcome to the world of jeeps !!!

its all about the crawl ratio.

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post #15 of 36 Old 08-09-2014, 04:15 AM
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I wouldn't say AEV is junk. AEV fits a certain need. Coils are fine, shocks are 5100's (popular). Rear track bar bracket is raised really high like MC.
I run correction brackets, not AEV's but they serve a purpose. Not a fan of the RHD drag link but EVO's kit does the same. Like I said .. Not for everybody but not junk by no means.


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post #16 of 36 Old 08-10-2014, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch79 View Post
Have a 4x4 history, had a full trail rig so general knowledge is ok but never had a jeep.

Looking at picking up a 2008-2012 rubicon unlimited 4 door for family comfortability and cargo room.............................................. ....Anything else you would suggest for a newbie jeep owner?
Since it'll be your daily driver, budget at least $450 for new headlights if you are going to be driving at night much. The factory headlights suck, and the OEM driving lights don't help much.

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post #17 of 36 Old 08-10-2014, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
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My advice would be to stick with 35's unless you want to lift 4" or more. 3 inches of lift on 37's is not enough for offroading.

You need 4.56 gears.

8,000 lb. winch is a little small, but probably fine for you.

There are plenty of good rock sliders to choose from. Take your pick.

No assisted steering is necessary.


No assisted steering necessary..... ur cray cray! On stock tires its hard to turn the front tires when locked up front. Hydro assist is absolutely necessary with 37's if u take it offroad.

Oh and u can run 35's/ 37s with no lift, pinch seam trimming and cut fenders. 4+ inches of lift is unnecessary, you can toss 37s on with a 2.5 inch and trimming with flat fenders.



For what your looking to do a 2.5" kit, 35s, flat fenders, a 8500+lb winch, front mid with bumper, rear bumper/carrier of your choice, rock rails, and assorted skid plates would be perfect. Hydro assist would be very helpful, but thats up to your disgression.

As for what kit, do some research and see what u like. Alot of guys like aev for their road manners, but their fix for extended control arms are just drop brackets (not my cup of tea), teraflex makes awesome stuff, rk makes great kits, metalcloak rides great on road as well. theres probably 20 companies that make jk lifts, search around and see what u like about each one and go from there.

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post #18 of 36 Old 08-10-2014, 11:43 PM
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Reading this thread is like sifting through corn-laden turds looking for a nugget of gold. Let's sort the wheat from the chaff.

First of all, if you start with a Rubicon you've got a good base. There are pros and cons of the 3.6L Pentastar (2012+) vs the 3.8L (2007-2011). Certainly the newer engine will perform better but it also costs more, and the 3.6L is infamous for bad heads (repair of which would not be covered under warranty unless you buy from a Jeep dealer that provides such a warranty).

You can fit 35's under a Rubicon with zero lift, flat fenders (or significantly trimmed stock fender flares) and correct bumpstops. Unfortunately, once you add weight (steel bumpers, winch) the stock springs will sag. But TC is correct that 2.5" lift is sufficient for 35's with either extended bumpstops or minor trimming of the stock fenders, and 2.5" lift will also help with the breakover angle of the longer Unlimited.

I have nothing against AEV lifts except that they rely on drop brackets to correct the front geometry. This works very well on-pavement in avoiding camber-related alignment problems, and so short of going with a long arm lift, AEV results in the best on-road manners. Unfortunately, off-road the drop brackets hang low and get caught-up and bashed on obstacles. For light wheeling the AEV kit is fine, but if you will encounter any big rocks, downed trees or ledges the drop brackets will be a liability.

I've helped more than half a dozen people install Rock Krawler 2.5-3.5" lifts and, aside from some concerns about their rod ends, they perform well on both the street and off-road. If you want something beefier, Clayton and Synergy use Johnnie Joints, which are, IMHO, the most durable rod end you can use. Sticking with 2.5" on an Unlimited will help forestall problems with the OEM drive shafts and the need to do a flipped drag link to avoid bump steer.

The kit you select should have all eight adjustable control arms, new rear swaybar links, new front quick-disconnect swaybar links, progressive springs of the desired length, shocks to match the springs (I suggest spending extra for rebuildable shocks, preferably with remote reservoirs), beefy front track bar and steering stabilizer relocation bracket, adjustable front track bar, beefy rear track bar relocation bracket, extended front quick-disconnect swaybar links and extended rear fixed swaybar links, and brake line relocation brackets. If you can't afford to get a kit with all eight control arms, the minimum needed to set camber and pinion angle are the four upper control arms, but this will mean your axles will be slightly pushed forward/back and you are left with flimsy rear lower control arms.

In addition to the lift kit, to fit 35's you will need new wheels with 4.5" or less backspacing or 1.5" wheel spacers for your stock wheels, and you will need to trim the stock Rubicon rock rail and trim or bend in the pinch seam in your rear wheel wells.

The Rubicon comes with rock rails that will be perfectly fine for protecting your rockers during occasional light to moderate off-roading (see note above about trimming for 35's) and a skid for your transfer case. However the Rubi lacks any protection for the engine oil pan or lower control arm mounts, and provides only partial protection for the transmission oil pan. If you will be wheeling over rocks or downed trees you will want to add skid plates for the oil pan and lower control arm mounts, and consider upgrading your transmission skids. Also, if you wind up with a 2011 or earlier you will want to either relocate or put a skid on the plastic evap canister located next to the rear driveshaft towards the back of the floor pan.

Some other things you might consider, as they are frequent concerns off-roading, is reinforcing your front axle with C-Gussets and either an inner axle sleeve or axle truss. In fact, if it is within your budget or skills allow, (due to lengthy and involved welding process), I would suggest the Artec axle armor kit. And also consider installing the Synergy sector shaft and upper track bar reinforcement kit to address these two additional weak areas.

If you're buying a JK equipped with an automatic transmission I'd suggest an auxiliary transmission oil cooler. And an auxiliary oil cooler for the power steering is also a very good idea (or always carry some extra power steering fluid when off-roading). Then, if you expect to encounter water deeper than your frame, you will want to extend your axle, transmission and transfer case breather hoses to prevent water infiltration into those components.

The stock JK headlights are abysmal, but you don't need to spend $450 on headlights to get significant improvement. A good set of H4 headlight lamps and bulbs with a replacement wiring harness will run you under $200. Spend the other $250 on a small LED light bar for use when you're off-roading.

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post #19 of 36 Old 08-11-2014, 08:43 AM
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Thanks again and big thank for Bump in the road for all the info, mustve taken a while to type all that. I'm reading about everything on multiple websites and seems that 90% of all JK owners agree on the 35's/some trimming required/extra skids/2.5" lift/flat fenders/I'm leaning toward the bigger engine to tow my boat with. Gonna miss my 2012 F-250 lariat PSD, but that thing is useless offroad.

I sold my welder/plasma cutter 7 years ago when my daughter was born but may reinvest so I can make my own bumpers/sliders and tire carrier, could save enough on those 3 items alone to pay for the welder & plasma cutter.
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post #20 of 36 Old 08-11-2014, 01:49 PM
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Probably going to pick up a new 2014 in the next couple of days. Going to trim rock rails & pinch seams, 1" body lift, modify the black plastic fenders to flat fenders, stock wheels/1.5" wheel spacers and a cheap set of 35's to start with. This should get me on the family trails and give me some time to see what's going on. Gonna pick up a welder and build my own bumpers & additional skid plates. Done a lot of reading on here over the last few days.

Last edited by stretch79; 08-14-2014 at 03:50 PM.
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post #21 of 36 Old 08-15-2014, 12:07 PM
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Headed back to dealership now to discuss $$$...fun times

Curious about how the airbags work with aftermarket bumpers, lifts etc etc and what happens if you slide into a rock while offroading?
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post #22 of 36 Old 08-15-2014, 12:38 PM
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Headed back to dealership now to discuss $$$...fun times

Curious about how the airbags work with aftermarket bumpers, lifts etc etc and what happens if you slide into a rock while offroading?
The air bags will function the same with aftermarket bumpers/suspension. The air bags aren't really tied to the bumpers. There are modules which detect severe forces of an accident, and the air bags are deployed based on these sensors (nothing in the bumpers).

As to sliding in to a rock. The air bags are designed and specifically set up so that they won't deploy unless it detects impact forces high enough (and in the proper direction) that occupants would would be more likely to be injured if they didn't deploy. Basically, the air bags shouldn't deploy off road unless you slid into something hard enough that you would likely have been seriously injured if they didn't deploy. Shouldn't be a problem.

Good luck with your purchase. If you don't mod right away, don't let that keep you off the trails. You can go a lot of places stock.
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post #23 of 36 Old 08-15-2014, 01:23 PM
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spend a few hours on here and type your questions into the search box... you may have to sift through a few threads but the reoccuring info will rise to the top and you will be dircted in the right direction.


There is so much bad information in this thread, that I dont even know where to start !

I take pride in dicderting people to this siite because I feel it is the best source for acuarte wheel world and real use information out there for the JK platform.. there are knowledgable people on other sites as well, but there is a great group here who actually wheel there rigs and have built their rigs themselves.

Dont worry about offroad bumpers if your actually going to offroad, you lose some of the fatory designed crumple with removing the stock bumpers but the airbags are not afftected.

The airbags are set to go off beyond a certain speed impact not just an impact, and alot of the jeeps electrical features are disabled in 4Lo, like the airbag at crawling speeds.

I have smacked my bumpers pretty dam hard while crawling and never worried about the airbag.

Although you can spend 3 g's on a winch and bumper, you can also spend under a grand for some of the best built stuff out there. I run Posion spyder bumpers and a superqinch with synthetic line.. all together it was under a grand .

Just keep on reading, and get some seat time. Each time you wheel you will see where the Jeep needs improvement, but you will be damn impressed what a stock jeep can do.

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post #24 of 36 Old 08-15-2014, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
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Probably going to pick up a new 2014 in the next couple of days. Going to trim rock rails & pinch seams, 1" body lift, modify the black plastic fenders to flat fenders, stock wheels/1.5" wheel spacers and a cheap set of 35's to start with. This should get me on the family trails and give me some time to see what's going on. Gonna pick up a welder and build my own bumpers & additional skid plates. Done a lot of reading on here over the last few days.
BEST PLAN EVER !!!! gotta love common sense !

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post #25 of 36 Old 08-15-2014, 10:24 PM
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2.5 to 3.5", flat fenders and 37's will run all day. What the hell are you talking about?
I agree. Running only 2.5", flat fenders, and 37's...works great, Low COG, and gets me anywhere I want to be.

Definitely would add aftermarket skid plates, C-gussets, axle sleeves, Poly Performance ball joints, and transmission cooler if an auto, wheels with about 3" backspacing or 1.5" wheel adapters (aka spacers).

Oh, and a Sawz-All....for the pinch seam and Rubi rock rails.

Hyrdo-assist or full hydro is not necessary for 37's. Just depends on how hard you intend to wheel it. I haven't hit Moab, but for the rocks I hit in the SE, regular steering does just fine.

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