Warn, Zeon 12000 vs Harbor Freight, Badlands 12000 Winches - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 09:13 AM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Snohomish WA
Age: 43
Posts: 50
Feedback: 0 reviews
Warn, Zeon 12000 vs Harbor Freight, Badlands 12000 Winches

It's hard to get past fanboy (I'd never own nuttin but Harbor Freight!) and "old school" opinions (git what ya pay fer!) and actually find a comparison by a non-biased (Warn pays for adds in the magazine) type review!

So I thought I would dig up all the details I could online and leave the emotional empirical evidence out of it. Just the brass tacks if you will. Below is my findings, and I'll spare you my conclusions so you can make your own, based on facts alone. If anyone can fill in the missing stats please let me know!

Similarities
Rated line pull: 12,000 lbs
Motor: 12V DC, series wound
Geartrain: 3-stage planetary
Brake: Automatic
Mounting Pattern: 10"x4.5"
Fairlead: Roller
Remote Control: Remote switch, 12' lead
Electrical controls: In/Out
Recommended Battery: 650 CCA

Differences
Gear ratio: Warn 216:1 | HF 265:1
Clutch: Warn Rotating ring gear | HF Sliding ring gear
Drum diameter/Length: Warn 3.15"x9.0" | HF 2.5"x8.8"
Weight: Warn 98lbs. | HF 86.8lbs.
IP Rating: Warn 68 | HF 66
Steel Rope: Warn 3/8"x80' | HF 3/8"x65'
Battery Cables: Warn 2ga | HF 3.5ga (min)
CE Certification Warn No | HF Yes
Warranty: Limited lifetime | HF 90 day $50 for 2 year Unlimited Warranty
Cheapest Cost: Warn $1050 | HF $300

Missing Specs
Horse Power: Warn ? | HF 6hp
Duty cycle: Warn ? | HF 5%
Clevis Hook: Warn ? | HF 3/8" w/safety latch
Clevis Hook WLL (lbs): ? | ?
Line WLL (lbs): Warn ? | HF 14,440
Overload Protection: Warn ? | HF In line circuit breaker
Sound Rating: Warn ? | HF 85db


FIRST LAYER 12V DC PERFORMANCE SPECS [HF in brackets]
Pull(Lbs).......Speed(ft/min)........Current Draw
0...................30.0 [16.4]............50 amps [85]
6000...............7.9 [7.5]...........257 amps [191]
12000.............3.1 [4.88]..........438 amps [300]

PULL BY LAYER [HF in brackets]
layer/Lbs
1/12000 [1/12000]
2/9894 [2/9550]
3/8117 [3/8000]
4/7324

Last edited by MaltedHop; 03-10-2014 at 09:27 AM.
MaltedHop is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 09:18 AM
JKO Addict!
 
BigMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: GA
Age: 57
Posts: 3,341
Garage
Feedback: 1 reviews

That is like comparing Jennifer Lawrence to Rosie O'Donnell


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, Granite,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, ProComp 7069 17x9, Cooper STT Pro 37's, Warn M8000, ACE ProSeries Bumpers, RROR Skids, Poly Tie Rod and Drag Link, Ten Factory Chromoly Rear Axles
BigMike is offline  
post #3 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Snohomish WA
Age: 43
Posts: 50
Feedback: 0 reviews

Did you even look at the specs or was that your knee jerk reaction?

Both winches have very similar specs and trade pluses and minuses. Looks more like Amy Adams vs Jennifer Lawrence to me.

Last edited by MaltedHop; 03-10-2014 at 09:51 AM.
MaltedHop is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 09:47 AM
Rock God
 
damon.l's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: s/e texas
Age: 39
Posts: 1,802
Feedback: 0 reviews

harbor freight does have some gems if you do some digging. I havnt every heard of anyone using one of their winches, may be worth your time to look up some reviews online (not just here). I wouldn't totally write it off, however if I was oozing money I would just get the warn and call it a day. that said im running a cheaper engo winch and so far ive had zero issues, but it gets used every no and then, not on a regular basis.
damon.l is offline  
post #5 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 09:52 AM
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Age: 61
Posts: 86
Feedback: 0 reviews
My Take

I have bought expensive,i.e. Milwaukee and cheap i.e. Harbor Freight and it all depends.The Harbor Freight 4" grinder is unbeatable.I also have a motorcycle lift that works great for a fraction of the name brand cost.H.F. nail guns are great for homeowner use.I don't know if they would stand up day to day.That said I think the winch would be fine for an occasional use.Would I trust it for hard use all the time,who knows.That's the real world use that comes into play.I know everyone has used Warn forever,I say give the H.F. some time.I would never shoot something down based solely on cost.
Hillcountrymac is offline  
post #6 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Snohomish WA
Age: 43
Posts: 50
Feedback: 0 reviews

I'm personally not interested in either of these winches. I want to use synthetic line and from I understand there is a better option for that then either of these winches.

I did this research because my friend wanted me to look into it for him, for his TJ. He wanted to know if the HF winch was a decent buy. I compared it to the best winch of the most popular & trusted company for him.

I decided to share the findings here. They are not directly compared anywhere and I thought if someone else was looking for info, they'd be happy to find the work already done for them.
MaltedHop is offline  
post #7 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 10:44 AM
JKO Addict!
 
BigMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: GA
Age: 57
Posts: 3,341
Garage
Feedback: 1 reviews

Have you ever owned or used a winch?

I buy Harbor Freight items but will not buy anything that I'd use where my life could be put at risk. Or, something that I don't use that often but when I need it, I want it to work.

Lot's of people justify their purchasing decisions on a lot of things. People go out and spend $25k on a new Harley and buy a piece of shit lift from HF or Sears for $100 instead of buying a Pitbull lift or similar. Your bike, your decision.

Are Warn winches 100% foolproof? Hell no. But I'd bet their failure rate is WAY WAY below that of the next most reliable brand.

Maybe I should have said it's like comparing a Snap-on Tool to a HF Tool


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, Granite,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, ProComp 7069 17x9, Cooper STT Pro 37's, Warn M8000, ACE ProSeries Bumpers, RROR Skids, Poly Tie Rod and Drag Link, Ten Factory Chromoly Rear Axles

Last edited by BigMike; 03-10-2014 at 11:00 AM.
BigMike is offline  
post #8 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Snohomish WA
Age: 43
Posts: 50
Feedback: 0 reviews

Yep, I use a winch all the time. Usually to drag out stumps or put tension on standing timber and I find my F350 sunk into mud at least 3 times a month. That winch is neither of these brands.

I have had 4 different brands of winch over the years... every single one of them worked flawlessly.

I'd bet Warn failure rate is just as good/bad as any modern winch for sale today. Winching technology is not new and modern manufacturing process are WAY ahead of where they were 15 - 20 years ago, when Warn was one of few and when they built there reputation. I bet you can find an angry review of Warn for every angry review of any other winch.

Some people drink the cool-aid and pay extra for hype. Others can see past marketing.
MaltedHop is offline  
post #9 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 11:17 AM
JKO Addict!
 
BigMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: GA
Age: 57
Posts: 3,341
Garage
Feedback: 1 reviews

Some people are also engineers and know the difference between Chinese components put together by 10 year olds in an enslavement camp versus a company that sources the best parts (some imported) and assembled by American workers.

Some people just buy cheap shit and justify it to themselves that it's just as good as brand X.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, Granite,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, ProComp 7069 17x9, Cooper STT Pro 37's, Warn M8000, ACE ProSeries Bumpers, RROR Skids, Poly Tie Rod and Drag Link, Ten Factory Chromoly Rear Axles
BigMike is offline  
post #10 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 11:28 AM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Snohomish WA
Age: 43
Posts: 50
Feedback: 0 reviews

Your reaching pretty far now lol.

You do know that Chinese components are in YOUR Jeep? They also made your Warn winch and Procomp wheels...

If you were an electrical engineer, you'd know that China makes some excellent components, maybe not as good as Japan, but really good none the less.

If you've got the extra cash and brand "name" or assembly "area" is super important to you, get what you like. If you're like many others and can't afford to "look" cool but still have a need, you might want to do some research and find an, as good alternative, if not, better...
MaltedHop is offline  
post #11 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 11:36 AM
Granite Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Age: 29
Posts: 155
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaltedHop View Post
Yep, I use a winch all the time. Usually to drag out stumps or put tension on standing timber and I find my F350 sunk into mud at least 3 times a month. That winch is neither of these brands.
I am curious as to what winches you have used and currently using on your F350?
ajpboss90 is offline  
post #12 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Snohomish WA
Age: 43
Posts: 50
Feedback: 0 reviews

Ramsey Patriot 15000 is on the F350 right now.

I had a Warn 9000 or 9500 something on my old XJ, a Chicago Electric 8000 (HF) on my TJ (came with it used) and a Superwinch something 8500 on the ZJ.
MaltedHop is offline  
post #13 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 11:56 AM
JKO Addict!
 
BigMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: GA
Age: 57
Posts: 3,341
Garage
Feedback: 1 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaltedHop View Post
Your reaching pretty far now lol.

You do know that Chinese components are in YOUR Jeep? They also made your Warn winch and Procomp wheels...

If you were an electrical engineer, you'd know that China makes some excellent components, maybe not as good as Japan, but really good none the less.

If you've got the extra cash and brand "name" or assembly "area" is super important to you, get what you like. If you're like many others and can't afford to "look" cool but still have a need, you might want to do some research and find an, as good alternative, if not, better...
Keep telling yourself that.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, Granite,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, ProComp 7069 17x9, Cooper STT Pro 37's, Warn M8000, ACE ProSeries Bumpers, RROR Skids, Poly Tie Rod and Drag Link, Ten Factory Chromoly Rear Axles
BigMike is offline  
post #14 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 01:02 PM
Rock God
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 525
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaltedHop View Post
I'd bet Warn failure rate is just as good/bad as any modern winch for sale today. Winching technology is not new and modern manufacturing process are WAY ahead of where they were 15 - 20 years ago, when Warn was one of few and when they built there reputation. I bet you can find an angry review of Warn for every angry review of any other winch.
From my own personal experience I would seriously doubt your claim. I've owned perhaps 30 winches over the last 40 years, and have had them on Jeeps, Pickup trucks, UTVs, and ATVs. The failure rate I have experienced with Ramsey winches is 100%. I had a Ramsey winch fail on me in the tank trap when I was competing in Four Wheeler Magazine's Top Truck Challenge back in 1997. I finished second place overall in the competition, so it is entirely possible that that winch failure cost me the win. I then had a Ramsey winch break in half when winching out of the little sluice on the Rubicon Trail. I've never had a Warn winch fail in 40 years of using them. So for me there is a big difference between winch brands.

You forgot to list two very important specs that don't show on paper; build quality, and reliability.

2017 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Recon; 35s - no lift, Warn 9.5 XP-S, ARB Twin Air, SPOD
2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk (wife's Jeep)
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Megacab 4x4; 6.7 CTD, Aisen, AEV Prospector conversion; 37s, 4.10s, Warn 16.5K
MOPWR2U is offline  
post #15 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Snohomish WA
Age: 43
Posts: 50
Feedback: 0 reviews

I didn't "forget" to include build quality, and reliability in the spec list.. they were not available stats from either manufacturer.

1997 was 17 years ago. Manufacturing for both company's has changed since then. Also, I bet today's winch is more capable then the Ramsey that may have lost you first place.

Back in 1997 you bought a Ramsey and used it on your race to win rig... why not a Warn?

Don't get me wrong, build quality and material quality are things to look at when trying to decide on what will last the longest. Neither Warn nor Harbor Freight think it's important enough to list as a selling feature. In this day of multimillion dollar, sue first and ask questions later, neither winch maker is going to sell you a "dangerous" winch that's going to snap in half when you need it.

I will say that the front of F350 has been lifted off the ground, several times, by a still working, not snapped in half Ramsey.

Of the 30 winches (wow) you have owned, ever buy a cheapie and been pleasantly surprised?
MaltedHop is offline  
post #16 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Snohomish WA
Age: 43
Posts: 50
Feedback: 0 reviews

Also, let me reiterate, I'm not buying either winch.
I don't really care what anyone buys.
I was simply posting comparing info, from both manufacturers in a clean easy to read way that didn't include any opinion in it.
I did it for others, who might like to see what the numbers were between two winches, that had not been directly compared before.. at least not as far as I could find.

Honestly, if you know in your heart, of hearts, that Warn is better in some way and more worthy of your money... buy it up. I never had any problem with my old Warn.
MaltedHop is offline  
post #17 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 02:18 PM
Rock God
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 525
Feedback: 0 reviews

I realize you're just comparing specs. I've tried that before with other purchases, such as with ATVs. Compare the specs, read the shootouts in the magazines, and buy something that just isn't what you wanted because specs don't tell the whole picture. You need the personal experience with each product to be able to tell which one is best. Like someone said before, its like comparing harbor freight wrenches to Snap On wrenches. Both wrenches may be a 9/16, but the difference in quality and reliability is like night and day.

I'm not saying I'm an expert, but I do have a lot of experience with winches over the years. I started with Ramsey winches and had two winches in a row fail, both of which Ramsey refused to cover under warranty. I switched to Warn, and I've been a happy customer ever since. You tend not to switch when what you are using works.

2017 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Recon; 35s - no lift, Warn 9.5 XP-S, ARB Twin Air, SPOD
2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk (wife's Jeep)
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Megacab 4x4; 6.7 CTD, Aisen, AEV Prospector conversion; 37s, 4.10s, Warn 16.5K
MOPWR2U is offline  
post #18 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Snohomish WA
Age: 43
Posts: 50
Feedback: 0 reviews

I agree that personal experience with the product is very important. I don't know annoying one winch may be over the other just from the numbers, or the customer service from the companies, etc.

I also agree that a Snapon wrench is nicer to use, then a Harbor Freight wrench, however when it's all said and done, they both work, they both remove the same bolt, they both break and they both get replaced free of charge when they do. I have Snapon, Mac, Bluepoint, Craftsman and Harbor Freight in my toolbox, you know which one I use most? The one I find first.

There are a lot more factors to consider then cost and stats alone, but it's a good place to start!

I also tend not to switch up what I use, when I find something that works.. I also try to keep an open mind that what I use is not the only thing that will work and that sometimes it's worth looking at other options.

Last edited by MaltedHop; 03-10-2014 at 03:19 PM.
MaltedHop is offline  
post #19 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 04:14 PM
Rock God
 
tiltz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bellevue, WA
Age: 33
Posts: 1,419
Feedback: 0 reviews

I have seen a couple folks use their HF winches. They were slow as molasses, but got the job done.

Winches are pretty basic machines. In Specs or Reality, the more expensive winch will usually win.... but often times, the cheapies are strong contenders.

Personally, I am kind of a winch snob. I have a warn because I like the quality and reputation. Mine is the 9.5 TI, so it is one of the fastest winches made, and there aren't a lot of other winches that can match it.

I think if you are on a budget, then getting a budget winch makes sense. A slow Chinese winch is better than no winch... every time.

There is a lot to be said about buying a brand name product... But it doesn't always make sense financially. I think the biggest issue with the cheap winches is that they get rusty inside and freeze up or the electronics get corroded and stop working. Regardless if you have a cheap winch or a fancy one, it is important that you test it regularly.... then hopefully you won't have a failure when you really need it.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
tiltz is offline  
post #20 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 06:05 PM
Comfortably Numb
 
RubiCajun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 12,289
Garage
Feedback: 1 reviews

I don't understand what warren zevon has to do with winches.

08 Rubi Unlimited named Freebird

Quote:
Originally Posted by StubEXrube View Post
Cat killing would almost certainly decline if we were allowed to hunt liberals.
Asylum media group llc all rights reserved 2015
RubiCajun is offline  
post #21 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 07:13 PM
Made in the U.S.A.
 
GenRight Off Road's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Simi Valley, CA.
Posts: 1,023
Garage
Feedback: 2 reviews

All of the GenRight Jeeps (and even the Ultra4 car) have WARN winches out front. Personally, I wouldn't run anything else. Recovery gear is not a place to pinch pennies.

GenRight Off-Road - Genuine Ideas Engineered Right
4535 Runway Street, Simi Valley, California 93063
805-584-8635

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
GenRight Off Road is offline  
post #22 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Snohomish WA
Age: 43
Posts: 50
Feedback: 0 reviews

... Cool story?

Maybe you guys should look at saving some cash? Seems like lots of parts are made that are overpriced. I bet even in the recovery gear market that happens, might actually be the perfect place to save some pennies.

You guys run carbon fiber fenders on that Ultra4 "car" too?

In order to qualify for the King of the Hammers ($2800) Warn Contingency Program, competitors must
Have a WARN winch mounted on the raced vehicle when crossing the finish line.
Have two WARN decals 3.5" x 6.5" or larger clearly visible on your vehicle during the race.
Your vehicle may not contain any competing winch company decals.

Then again if I got $2800 to have a certain winch on my race vehicle.. I'd run it too

Last edited by MaltedHop; 03-10-2014 at 10:42 PM.
MaltedHop is offline  
post #23 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 10:33 PM
Made in the U.S.A.
 
GenRight Off Road's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Simi Valley, CA.
Posts: 1,023
Garage
Feedback: 2 reviews

Sounds like you have it all figured our Mr Hop.

We'll see ya out on the trail!

GenRight Off-Road - Genuine Ideas Engineered Right
4535 Runway Street, Simi Valley, California 93063
805-584-8635

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
GenRight Off Road is offline  
post #24 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 10:35 PM
Made in the U.S.A.
 
GenRight Off Road's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Simi Valley, CA.
Posts: 1,023
Garage
Feedback: 2 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaltedHop View Post
... Cool story?

Maybe you guys should look at saving some cash? Seems like lots of parts are made that are overpriced. I bet even in the recovery gear market that happens, might actually be the perfect place to save some pennies.

You guys run carbon fiber fenders on that Ultra4 car too?
Our Ultra4 car doesn't have any fenders


GenRight Off-Road - Genuine Ideas Engineered Right
4535 Runway Street, Simi Valley, California 93063
805-584-8635

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
GenRight Off Road is offline  
post #25 of 42 Old 03-10-2014, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Snohomish WA
Age: 43
Posts: 50
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenRight Off Road View Post
Sounds like you have it all figured our Mr Hop.

We'll see ya out on the trail!
Wasn't very hard to figure out where your royalties lie.. opps meant loyalties, just saying.
MaltedHop is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome