Issues with Genright rear stubby bumper - please help - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 37 Old 01-26-2014, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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Issues with Genright rear stubby bumper - please help

Hi There,

Like many of you, I obsessed on bumpers and then made a decision to invest in the one I thought was best. I actually like the design of the genright bumpers not to mention the folks there that I have had the opportunity to work with. Unfortunately, there is what I personally feel is a critical design flaw in that the bumper is cut to high and close to the body. Yes, it looks cool and you can slam the bumper down on granite boulders. I have done it. What you cannot apparently do is slam down on the left rear frame rail as I did. There is enough flex between the tub, frame and rubber bushings that the genright bumper comes into contact with the body. In my case, the damage caused by this one incident was $3,800, which included a new rear section of the top (no glass etc). To be clear, I am not here to blame Genright for the damage. The vehicle is insured even for off-road so the damage has already been fixed and paid at this point and I am not here to whine about the damage itself. I also lifted the jeep an additional 2"+ to better clear obstacles (3.5"->4.5" & 35"->37"). That said the bumper still came into contact with the body and it will happen again unless the bumper is modified or replaced with one that is better suited to the amount of torsional flexing that our jeeps can apparently accomplish.

I brought this to genright’s attention as soon as it happened and they strung me along for months until they finally kicked me to the curb telling me how great their bumper is and how busy their owner is traveling on business. Of course, they blamed the installer (me) first), the driver (me) and suggested it was the jeep’s fault because the bushings allowed it to happen.

I like the way the bumper looks and would like to protect my investment in it and put it back on my jeep. If you can suggest an installation issue, please do and please be specific as I used to be a master tech a long time ago in a past life and should be able to fix any possible self inflicted goofs. Honestly, I doubt there is an installation issue but am still open to suggestions.

The only thing I can think of short of Genright changing the design of their bumper so that it is a "no interference" design is to take a plasma cutter to the bumper and trim the top edge off so that it will clear the tub. Problem is that I have neither the tools nor the expertise to pull this off. I don't feel that I should have to go through the expense of (paying a third party for) remediating the design of an expensive bumper.

Has anyone else experience this issue this brand or any other brand of steel rear bumper? If so, how did you fix it?

I want to try and replicate the issue but am afraid to put the bumper back on and create more damage to the body. We have a fork lift in our shipping and receiving department and the shipping guy is into trucks and will have no problem lifting the jeep at the frame rail. I just can bring myself to do it. Anyone else willing? Lift it on the left rear frame rail to raise the left rear wheel off the ground and see if the bumper contacts the body.

GPS coordinates of the drop off where I did this at Hungry Valley in case anyone wants to try this too….

It looks like a cement retaining wall thingy.

Latitude: 34°43'20.94"N

Longitude: 118°51'53.87"W


It would be great to see options for rear stubby bumpers that will not come into contact with the tub when pushed to the limits and would like to avoid cutting off the rear of the frame as with the Poison Spyder BFH, the JCR or the TNT Customs.

A couple of pictures….






Thanks in advance for any help getting this resolved.

Just to be clear, I do like every other aspect of this bumper and would like to find a way to put it back on my jeep.

Last edited by White13JKUR; 03-20-2014 at 11:41 AM. Reason: clarified original comments
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post #2 of 37 Old 01-26-2014, 09:13 PM
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Umm, so how high was the wall that your drove off and caused this on?

I don't really think you can fault the bumper, despite the design leading to this...
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post #3 of 37 Old 01-26-2014, 09:27 PM
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Genright bumper had nothing to do with the damage to your top. The marks on your tub are very common with any tight fitting bumper. My rockhard and genright have made contact with my tub. What broke your hardtop is the impact resonating through your frame which the bumper is mounted to. I'm just not seeing what the bumper has to do with your top. Sometimes in our hobby shit happens due to the nature of what we do. Can't always point the finger at manufactures when shit happens while driving a 5k pound rig made of aluminum foil into the biggest rock you can find.

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post #4 of 37 Old 01-26-2014, 10:39 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PhrogMech46 View Post
Genright bumper had nothing to do with the damage to your top. The marks on your tub are very common with any tight fitting bumper. My rockhard and genright have made contact with my tub. What broke your hardtop is the impact resonating through your frame which the bumper is mounted to. I'm just not seeing what the bumper has to do with your top. Sometimes in our hobby shit happens due to the nature of what we do. Can't always point the finger at manufactures when shit happens while driving a 5k pound rig made of aluminum foil into the biggest rock you can find.
Pardon me. I do not agree.

First of all and to be fair, the back window was open when it happened so the hardtop damage can perhaps be attributed to the additional stress placed in on that part of the top near the hinges. I don't really buy the resonance thing anyway but maybe that is because I do not fully understand. How does the resonance transfer from the frame through the rubber bushings and then to the tub, through the thin layer of foam rubber between the body and top and the top itself?

Aside from that, I do not agree at all that a bumper should, by design, be allowed to contact the body unless it was bent to the point of being DEFORMED. This was not the case with me and I have the steel version, not the aluminum version. I would argue that both of the bumpers you have had on your jeep are flawed unless they actually deformed before they contacted the body. Maybe I am wrong but I think having a steel bumper on the back of the jeep would increase its torsional rigidity and actually prevent it from flexing as much as it would otherwise in stock form.

I do not feel the tub damage would have been incurred with the stock bumper or with the likes of the new fascia and d-ring pulls from evo. The PS BFH and similar bumpers also appear to be "non interface" designs (aside from that whole frame chopping thing).

Last edited by White13JKUR; 01-26-2014 at 11:22 PM.
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post #5 of 37 Old 01-26-2014, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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Umm, so how high was the wall that your drove off and caused this on?
I know, right... it must have been a cliff.

It was probably a 3' ledge and navigated slowly. No issue with the drivers side LOD (frame mounted) rock slider. I updated the original post with the GPS coordinates for anyone in the neighborhood.

At the time, the Jeep had 35" MTR/K's and a 3.5" lift. Post incident, I upped the lift to 4.5" and tires to 37" MTR/K's.

That is not to say that the bumper should be allowed to contact the body. I do not agree with this notion at all. If the hit would have been hard enough to actually bend the steel bumper then that would be another story.

Quote:
I don't really think you can fault the bumper, despite the design leading to this...
The bumper contacted the body and did not itself bend. Of course you can call the design into question - at how close it is cut to the tub. Are you saying that bumpers should be allowed to contact the tub and that its okay?
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post #6 of 37 Old 01-27-2014, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by White13JKUR View Post
Pardon me. I do not agree.

First of all and to be fair, the back window was open when it happened so the hardtop damage can perhaps be attributed to the additional stress placed in on that part of the top near the hinges. I don't really buy the resonance thing anyway but maybe that is because I do not fully understand. How does the resonance transfer from the frame through the rubber bushings and then to the tub, through the thin layer of foam rubber between the body and top and the top itself?

Aside from that, I do not agree at all that a bumper should, by design, be allowed to contact the body unless it was bent to the point of being DEFORMED. This was not the case with me and I have the steel version, not the aluminum version. I would argue that both of the bumpers you have had on your jeep are flawed unless they actually deformed before they contacted the body. Maybe I am wrong but I think having a steel bumper on the back of the jeep would increase its torsional rigidity and actually prevent it from flexing as much as it would otherwise in stock form.

I do not feel the tub damage would have been incurred with the stock bumper or with the likes of the new fascia and d-ring pulls from evo. The PS BFH and similar bumpers also appear to be "non interface" designs (aside from that whole frame chopping thing).
Well your first post was misleading in that you left out an important piece of information about the back window being open. The decision to leave that open as you mention probably was a factor in your damage. When you dropped down 3ft slamming down on your bumper/frame the shock of that hit transferred through to your top. Yes that energy traveled through your body mounts to the top. The marks on your tub were started well before this incident due to the body mount flex. Is the "damage" limited to the top and the marks where the tub touched the bumper? If you had one of those other bumpers you mentioned you probably would be on here complaing of a ripped off spare tire and broken tail gate due to a design flaw of those bumpers.

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post #7 of 37 Old 01-27-2014, 03:20 AM
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JKs have very loose body mounts and those can absolutely be attributing to your problem. The JK also doesn't necessarily have the most rigid frame in torsion either.

With a big enough hit, I'd expect the tub on the JK to displace around 1/2"-3/4" from static, in roll, relative to a "fixed" frame.

When flexing the suspension out, it's also not uncommon to see the frame/tub to displace ~1/2" with a static load applied.

It boils down to the bumper is too high. Genright shouldn't have made it that high and you probably should have done some investigating into that small amount of clearance prior to taking the rig out, even on-road.

Does Genright owe you? Well thats somewhat debatable, yea they can send you a new bumper, but off-road damage is pretty much "on you" in many ways unfortunately.

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post #8 of 37 Old 01-27-2014, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White13JKUR View Post
I do not feel the tub damage would have been incurred with the stock bumper or with the likes of the new fascia and d-ring pulls from evo. The PS BFH and similar bumpers also appear to be "non interface" designs (aside from that whole frame chopping thing).
I guess you havent really picked up a stock bumper? My 13yr old daughter can lift one over head. They are hollow plastic. The only metal on it is the mounts that mounbt it to the frame. You probably would have crushed your tub with the stock bumper.
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post #9 of 37 Old 01-27-2014, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Goodysgotacuda View Post
Does Genright owe you? Well thats somewhat debatable, yea they can send you a new bumper, but off-road damage is pretty much "on you" in many ways unfortunately.
I agree. bumpers and rock sliders will only take so much abuse..some more than others....you play - you pay sometimes.

I have banged the bottom of my XRC rear bumper pretty good snd it never contacts the body...I suspect it would take a pretty good "bang" to do so. Like getting dropped off a fork lift.
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post #10 of 37 Old 01-27-2014, 09:42 AM
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I have the same bumper. It works very well. Flex of the frame is not a Genright issue. They make a quality product to the standards that the public wants. Had they made said bumper with a 1" increase in the gap between the bumper and body, many folks would bitch about the shoddy fit. And it would still have likely resulted in some of what happened to you.

More likely a large portion of your damage was from having the back window open (who wheels like that?). And I'd suspect you might have hit your spare on the way down.

These bumpers, offroad protection equipment are not sold with any guarantee of protection. You take it offroad, you take the responsibility.

I think you are unfairly bashing Genright in the hoped they will compensate you in some way. File it on your insurance. Don't whine about it here.

Also. Dirty laundry is this way: https://www.jkowners.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18

Last edited by BigJk; 01-27-2014 at 09:47 AM.
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post #11 of 37 Old 01-27-2014, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PhrogMech46 View Post
Well your first post was misleading in that you left out an important piece of information about the back window being open. The decision to leave that open as you mention probably was a factor in your damage. When you dropped down 3ft slamming down on your bumper/frame the shock of that hit transferred through to your top. Yes that energy traveled through your body mounts to the top.
Again, pardon me. Hopefully it is clear by the way that I am sharing as much information about the incident as possible that am not trying to mislead in any way. Recently (subsequently to the incident) I read some threads on leaving the back window open which is what got me thinking about the possibility. I am not totally convinced, however, and still feel that the bumper (which maintained its integrity) pushed the tub *EVEN FARTHER* than it would have been otherwise moved in turn flexing the top further as well.

I have personally installed and removed that bumper a number of times at this point and yes, it is virtually impossible to even carefully install the bumper without “kissing” the tub. In my case, I was careful enough to tape up the tub with some duct tape before installing the bumper.

The other point that you are apparently missing – and apologies if I am not making it more clear - is that I feel this has more to do with the amount of torsional flex rather than any impact or “shock.” As I have tried to state, I traversed the obstacle slowly. While I would characterize it as a very direct hit, it was at the same time slow and careful so as to minimize the shock itself. It would be safe for you to assume here that I was not driving like a complete idiot.

Quote:
The marks on your tub were started well before this incident due to the body mount flex. Is the "damage" limited to the top and the marks where the tub touched the bumper?
How were you able to make this determination? Apparently you missed the popped seam behind the tail light – directly above the point of impact on the frame rail/bumper area and the other bent sheet metal in the area. Maybe you also missed all of that paint transfer (from the bumper to the body) that occurred at the time of the incident as well. When the bumper is forcefully pushed into the tub, you are going to get paint transfer regardless of how hard the blow was. Anyway, your statement simply corroborates the bad design. A bumper should not contact the body unless you destroy it first in the process.

Quote:
If you had one of those other bumpers you mentioned you probably would be on here complaing of a ripped off spare tire and broken tail gate due to a design flaw of those bumpers.
Seriously? How did you draw that conclusion? Feel free to back this up. Was it because I said that I pretty much every other design aspect of this bumper? Or maybe it is by the way I am looking for way to actually keep this bumper on my jeep?

Your willingness to accept and defend a poor design on your own vehicle is fine but there is no need to bash the messenger. The bumper contacted the body and did not itself flex. This is a design flaw. Call it an oversight or whatever you want.
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post #12 of 37 Old 01-27-2014, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Goodysgotacuda View Post
JKs have very loose body mounts and those can absolutely be attributing to your problem. The JK also doesn't necessarily have the most rigid frame in torsion either.

With a big enough hit, I'd expect the tub on the JK to displace around 1/2"-3/4" from static, in roll, relative to a "fixed" frame.

When flexing the suspension out, it's also not uncommon to see the frame/tub to displace ~1/2" with a static load applied.

It boils down to the bumper is too high. Genright shouldn't have made it that high and you probably should have done some investigating into that small amount of clearance prior to taking the rig out, even on-road.

Does Genright owe you? Well thats somewhat debatable, yea they can send you a new bumper, but off-road damage is pretty much "on you" in many ways unfortunately.

Ding ding ding….. Yes, thank you Goody. This is exactly my point. There is going to be flex. No issue with that. At the same time, the bumper contacting the tub and pushing it to the point of deforming sheet metal and popping seems is a serious design flaw.

We can only do so much investigating ahead of time. I am pretty careful as well as knowledgeable.

Genright’s design (just the top part of it – where it means the body) is all I am calling into question here and pretty much the only problem that I want to solve by way of fixing what I have or replacing it with a completely different bumper.

All that I have asked of Genright is to update their design and send me a new one. I did that patiently and professionally for months until they kicked me to the curb at which point I asked for a refund since they were not willing to stand behind their product. I am really looking for a reason to put the bumper back on my jeep.

If you or anyone else reading this thread or anyone at Genright can point to any kind of a statement where I am asking Genright to pay for the damage, please post it here for all to see. It would be news to me as well.

Just so that it is very clear - What I would like to accomplish here is to influence change. Specifically, it would be great if Genright would finally acknowledge this critical design flaw in an otherwise excellent bumper. It would be also excellent if they upgrade me for free since I am the one who QA’d this defect for them.

Beyond that, if someone with a plasma cutter wants to help me remediate this locally at little or no cost, that would be a reasonable conclusion as well.
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post #13 of 37 Old 01-27-2014, 10:18 AM
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Oh, and your comment about the OEM bumper is complete bullcrap. The OEM rear bumper is purely ornamental.

And if I sound harsh, that was intended. Trolling for vendor attention and compensation is all to common on this forum. And sadly the trolls typically get positive reinforcement for their behavior.
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I guess you havent really picked up a stock bumper? My 13yr old daughter can lift one over head. They are hollow plastic. The only metal on it is the mounts that mounbt it to the frame. You probably would have crushed your tub with the stock bumper.
Yes, I am familiar with the stock bumper and while everything you say is true, it is also apparent that you do not understand the scenario. What may not bet making clear is that the stock plastic bumper would have ripped off or simply deformed here. The stock bumper would have done its job (read: in this incident) and none of the tub damage would have occurred. I am not completely convinced on the top damage only because the bumper very clearly contacted the body, pushing it even further than it would have otherwise been pushed.

If you can describe how you think the tub would have been damaged by the stock bumper in this particular incident, please explain. I would like to understand it.
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post #15 of 37 Old 01-27-2014, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sstoner View Post
I agree. bumpers and rock sliders will only take so much abuse..some more than others....you play - you pay sometimes.

I have banged the bottom of my XRC rear bumper pretty good snd it never contacts the body...I suspect it would take a pretty good "bang" to do so. Like getting dropped off a fork lift.

Agreed on all points. At the same time, it seems like you have a bumper that was thoughtfully designed in that it won't contact the body when the frame is flexed.

And like I have already stated, that back bumper has also taken other serious hits but none were localize to one frame rail.

The reason I picked the genright over the XRC was one of it's design virtues (and yes, see the genright as having virtues too).
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post #16 of 37 Old 01-27-2014, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
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Oh, and your comment about the OEM bumper is complete bullcrap. The OEM rear bumper is purely ornamental.

And if I sound harsh, that was intended. Trolling for vendor attention and compensation is all to common on this forum. And sadly the trolls typically get positive reinforcement for their behavior.
Am I a troll or are you a fanboy? I am here to solve a genuine problem. Can you help?

Totally agree on the OEM bumper. You should be able to easily quote me saying the same thing.

What you are apparently missing is that the hit was to the drivers side frame rail. Any contact to the bumper metal was under the frame rail. The marks in the pictures support this.

If the stock bumper was on there, it would have deformed and possibly popped back into place. The tub is stronger than the plastic. Maybe the bumper would have ripped off completely.

What happened instead is that the rigid steel bumper pushed into the tub. It caused the seem to pop and caused significant paint transfer and some bent sheet metal.

If the impact would have been even farther to the driver's side, it would have missed the frame rail all together and definitely would have hit the tub in that scenario with the stock bumper. But that did NOT happen here.

Last edited by White13JKUR; 01-27-2014 at 10:35 AM.
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post #17 of 37 Old 01-27-2014, 10:49 AM
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I've read this whole thing.

My only question for you is this. If you had a complaint about the bumper when you installed it, why not get with the company then? It's not like you installed the bumper 2 seconds before you drove off a big ass ledge and didn't have time to spare to inspect it.


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post #18 of 37 Old 01-27-2014, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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To anyone who thinks that I am full of it and thinks that this bumper is without flaw, please buy it from me for a decent price and put it on your jeep. It is painted and includes a couple of their brighter reverse lights.

If someone locally with a plasma cutter is feeling generous and wants to help a fellow jeeper, that would be a great outcome too.
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I've read this whole thing.

My only question for you is this. If you had a complaint about the bumper when you installed it, why not get with the company then? It's not like you installed the bumper 2 seconds before you drove off a big ass ledge and didn't have time to spare to inspect it.


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Not sure if you saw the first sentence of the second paragraph. I brought it to their attention months ago.

Despite my experience and knowledge, I did not anticipate that the bumper would come into contact with the tub once it was securely bolted into place.

There aren't exactly a ton of existing threads out there on the topic of metal bumpers that are cut close to the body and causing the damage. I did the research and due diligence the best I could ahead of time.

FWIW, I even read about that guy with the Poison Spyder rock rails who incurred body damage around the b pillar. For me that one was a more obvious no brainer. Body mounted sliders were never on my list to begin with. I avoided that problem by going with LoD frame mounted sliders.


We pay tons of money for this aftermarket stuff and some if it is not very thoroughly tested.
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post #20 of 37 Old 01-27-2014, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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I have the same bumper. It works very well. Flex of the frame is not a Genright issue. They make a quality product to the standards that the public wants. Had they made said bumper with a 1" increase in the gap between the bumper and body, many folks would bitch about the shoddy fit. And it would still have likely resulted in some of what happened to you.

More likely a large portion of your damage was from having the back window open (who wheels like that?). And I'd suspect you might have hit your spare on the way down.

These bumpers, offroad protection equipment are not sold with any guarantee of protection. You take it offroad, you take the responsibility.

I think you are unfairly bashing Genright in the hoped they will compensate you in some way. File it on your insurance. Don't whine about it here.

Also. Dirty laundry is this way: https://www.jkowners.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18
Genright products are decent – which is why they found their way onto my jeep in the first place. I also find their aluminum and carbon fibre products innovative. The people there that I worked with were pretty decent folks too. Only issue here is how closely the JK rear bumper is cut to the tub. I would personally find a lot more helpful if you had suggestions on how to solve the problem versus blaming the driver.

How do you figure this is a genright bashing thread? I was very careful not to make it a bashing thread. Only one thing is being called into question. No names are being called. Facts are being posted (the best I can). I am doing my best to keep it focused on the issue and I am open to solutions that do not necessarily involve genright. Where is the bashing (aside from the bashing that I am taking here)? Oh – and it has already be claimed, fixed and paid by the insurance company. At the end of the day I will still be paying for this in the form of increased insurance rates.

If I would have been able to find a thread like this prior to purchasing the bumper, it would have been much easier to avoid this rear bumper and seek a different solution.
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post #21 of 37 Old 01-27-2014, 12:05 PM
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I've had 2 different rear bumpers on my jeep from 2 different companies and they both dented my tub when I hit them hard enough. The genright design may not be great, but it's not completely the fault of the bumper.
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Originally Posted by spedly View Post
I've had 2 different rear bumpers on my jeep from 2 different companies and they both dented my tub when I hit them hard enough. The genright design may not be great, but it's not completely the fault of the bumper.
Thanks for the feedback. Another great data point because I have been looking for some time for a bumper that will clear the tub because I do plan to slam this thing on rocks and need a bumper that supports that. It would be good to know he brand of the other bumper so that myself and others can safely avoid it. Frankly it would be good to have a list of interference vs non-interference bumpers.

Agreed. It is not completely the fault of the bumper. It required an engineer, some CAD software and a peer review of the design in order to be able to design in such a great flaw.

Last edited by White13JKUR; 01-27-2014 at 12:38 PM.
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post #23 of 37 Old 01-27-2014, 01:04 PM
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the OP said he was NOT bashing Genright, yet that is about all I got from this thread.
as I understand it HE wants Genright to build a bumper that will flex....he stated his new bumper DID NOT FLEX, what did he buy a bumper for anyway?
two things he did wrong, he installed the bumper knowing full well how close it fit, and then deliberately tested it to extreme, and did not like the out come.
too bad, so sad, NOT your dad.
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post #24 of 37 Old 01-27-2014, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White13JKUR View Post

If you can describe how you think the tub would have been damaged by the stock bumper in this particular incident, please explain. I would like to understand it.
becuase once the rock crushed that OEM bumper it would have kept going til it hit your tub.
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post #25 of 37 Old 01-27-2014, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstoner View Post
becuase once the rock crushed that OEM bumper it would have kept going til it hit your tub.
Well, not really but close. I made that point elsewhere.

First of all, it hit directly under the frame rail and concurrently pushed up into the tub, popping the seam and bending sheet metal.

Had the stock bumper been on or no bumper on at all, the tub and door damage would not have happened.

What I hit on was a cemented cinder block retaining wall that was about as tall as the tire (going from memory here - I did not take any pics and could not google any up on the net). The end of the frame rail hit perpendicular to the edge of the cinder block wall.

That being said.... It *is* true that had the rear of the jeep been shifted even one inch or so more (again - going from memory) to the right, the impact would have been more toward the outer edge of the bumper and would have hit the area that is just bumper. In this case, I would agree but this was not my experience. Yes, what you describe would have simply pushed the stock bumper out of the way and crushed the tub directly. With the steel bumper, I think you would see at least see some sort of crease in the metal.
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