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post #1 of 52 Old 07-12-2009, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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Pondering the "What If's" About Jeep's Future

Some of you might have heard I'm sure about the unconfirmed rumors that Fiat might be looking to sell Jeep off once the dust settles from this merger. Rumor further has it that the potential buyer is Tata Motors. For we JK owners I think this could be really bad news.

The first question that comes to my mind is "Will Tata (or whomever buys Jeep) honor our lifetime powertrain warranties?" I know that for a lot of us this was a big selling point. A new owner of the company would essentially have to warranty a drivetrain for which they may not even be able to get parts. I could potentially see them not honoring warranties for any vehicles sold before the time they took control of the company leaving a lot of Jeep owners without the warranty they were promised.

This leads me to the next consideration, that being how the price of parts for our JK's would be affected down the road. If the Wrangler is being made by a new company and they decide to put a new powertrain in it and Chrysler is no longer making the powertrain that is in all the current JKs? You can see how this might drive up the cost of parts for us in the longterm. That combined with not having a lifetime warranty any more could add up to some real money when something breaks.

What about dealership network of new Jeeps? We all know that Chrsyler made sure to combine Chrysler / Dodge / Jeep sales into single dealers. If Jeep were sold off to Tata, who would sell Jeeps in your city or town?

I really hope that Jeep is not sold off as I really like mine and I would hate to lose my warranty and see the cost to own and keep one go through the roof.
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post #2 of 52 Old 07-12-2009, 04:22 PM
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A warranty is considered a liability just like loan debt. Just as companies don't shed their loan obligations in a sale, they cannot drop their warranty liability either. If that was the case, holding companies would trade ownership of other companies to shed their liability screwing all their creditors in the process.

Don't worry. The only way the warranty will go away is if they close their doors and sell off their assets. Even if they stay in business, there is nothing that guarantees there will be an authorized warranty repair shop within 100 miles though.

I seriously doubt Tata will buy Jeep. They are in about the worst financial shape of any car company in the world. They bought Jaguar, Land Rover, and Saab(?) at their worst and paid too much for them, right before the economy tanked. They are up the proverbial creek.

Mahindra is much more likely. They are all set to start selling diesel trucks through a some of the Chrysler dealers that were shut down, and they will be selling diesel-electric hybrids and SUVs next year.

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post #3 of 52 Old 07-12-2009, 04:51 PM
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Fiat WANTS to keep Jeep they know its the most valuable asset of Chrysler. Don't worry they aren't going anywhere!

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post #4 of 52 Old 07-12-2009, 06:55 PM
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Don't waste your time pondering the uncontrollable. Jeep will continue to be long after you're gone. It, as was stated, is a valuable commodity. Fiat will probably use this purchase to re-enter the U.S. market or at least glean some technologies from their purchase. Jeep will be fine regardless of whether a French or German or Italian or British or American company owns the label.

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post #5 of 52 Old 07-12-2009, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pastorsteve View Post
Don't waste your time pondering the uncontrollable. Jeep will continue to be long after you're gone. .
I figure plenty of people said the same thing about Studebaker and Plymouth and Oldsmobile.
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post #6 of 52 Old 07-12-2009, 07:48 PM
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I would love to see Jeep sold...to International. Damn JP Mag got my hopes up last April, until I checked the cover to see what issue it was...

Who knows if Jeep will be sold, I've heard the rumors it will be sold after the Fiat-Chrysler merger is complete, because they don't want to have to deal with all the Federal requirements that is being placed on vehicles in the upcoming decade. Apparently it will be too hard to make a Wrangler get good fuel economy...I don't see that considering I average 19-21 out of mine and technology can only improve, especially if they put a turbo-diesel in the Wranglers, which is something they should have done already.

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post #7 of 52 Old 07-12-2009, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by OneCav View Post
I figure plenty of people said the same thing about Studebaker and Plymouth and Oldsmobile.
I doubt Pontiac expected to go the way of the dodo either...

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"shut the f* up alright? That's the name of my new book, shut the F* up by Dr. Dennis Leary. A revolutionary new form of therapy. I'm gonna have my patients come in, 'Dr?', SHUT THE F* UP, NEXT. 'I don't feel so...', SHUT THE F* UP, NEXT. 'He made me feel so much better about myself, you know, he just told me to shut the F* up and nobody had ever told me that before, I feel so much better now!" Dennis Leary
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post #8 of 52 Old 07-12-2009, 07:51 PM
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Possibly. However, Studebaker was a car among many cars. Plymouth is still around and doing fine - other than being a repetitive brand in a stable of Chrysler, Plymouth, Dodge... many duplications. Olds likewise was an unnecessary repetition in the GM brand. Jeep is unique among all other makers and models.

American manufacturers have to realize that they need to focus on a specific number of models per manufacturer that fill the needs of the American buyers. Thinning the herd and focusing on the best in each category will be a good thing. And even if all this is pure hogwash.............Pondering the uncontrollable is a waste of time.

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post #9 of 52 Old 07-12-2009, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pastorsteve View Post
.............Pondering the uncontrollable is a waste of time.
There's nothing wrong with having a discussion about the future of Jeep and where it may lead.

Just throwing up your hands and saying "whatever, pondering the uncontrollable is a waste of time" is a bit apathetic.

Whatever, the internet may fail before I hit post and lose all my typing I just did...but

whatever pondering the uncontrollable is a waste of time. Take that approach to everything and nothing would be said or done.

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"shut the f* up alright? That's the name of my new book, shut the F* up by Dr. Dennis Leary. A revolutionary new form of therapy. I'm gonna have my patients come in, 'Dr?', SHUT THE F* UP, NEXT. 'I don't feel so...', SHUT THE F* UP, NEXT. 'He made me feel so much better about myself, you know, he just told me to shut the F* up and nobody had ever told me that before, I feel so much better now!" Dennis Leary
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post #10 of 52 Old 07-12-2009, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ccdjeep View Post
There's nothing wrong with having a discussion about the future of Jeep and where it may lead.

Just throwing up your hands and saying "whatever, pondering the uncontrollable is a waste of time" is a bit apathetic.

Whatever, the internet may fail before I hit post and lose all my typing I just did...but

whatever pondering the uncontrollable is a waste of time. Take that approach to everything and nothing would be said or done.
I was thinking the same thing. If it's such a huge waste of time why is he wasting his time telling us what a waste of time it is?

Like ccdjeep said, there's nothing wrong with discussing the possible future of Jeep as a brand. There's plenty of topics on this forum that truly are a waste of time. Wondering about the future of Jeep doesn't seem like a waste of time to me on a Jeep forum.
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post #11 of 52 Old 07-12-2009, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
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. Plymouth is still around and doing fine - other than being a repetitive brand in a stable of Chrysler, Plymouth, Dodge... many duplications.
Pator, you do realize that Plymouth went away eight years ago, don't you?

Quote:
American manufacturers have to realize that they need to focus on a specific number of models per manufacturer that fill the needs of the American buyers.
Aside from the Wrangler Jeep doesn't sell anything unique.
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post #12 of 52 Old 07-12-2009, 09:21 PM
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Since I'm retired,I have time to waste,so I'll waste some time here talking about jeep The JK,the Grand Cherokee are okay fine,I think when jeep dropped the cherokee line in 01,that was a mistake.That was thier biggest seller,so I think they should bring that back,drop all of the little tiny jeepettes except for the fiat whatever cause they own the company.Jeep (fiat) should also get serious on the new Gladiator to capture the small pickup market which is disappearing fast(american made).All jeeps should have the option of a clean diesel.That alone would greatly boost fleet mpg average,and give us excellent power and economy.There,I wasted enough time

Somethin's happenin' here,what it is ain't exactly clear,there's a man with a gun over there,a tellin' me,I have to beware.....
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post #13 of 52 Old 07-12-2009, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
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Since I'm retired,I have time to waste,so I'll waste some time here talking about jeep The JK,the Grand Cherokee are okay fine,I think when jeep dropped the cherokee line in 01,that was a mistake.That was thier biggest seller,so I think they should bring that back,drop all of the little tiny jeepettes except for the fiat whatever cause they own the company.Jeep (fiat) should also get serious on the new Gladiator to capture the small pickup market which is disappearing fast(american made).All jeeps should have the option of a clean diesel.That alone would greatly boost fleet mpg average,and give us excellent power and economy.There,I wasted enough time
I agree 100% with everything you said. CCDJeep and I were just discussing the other day how dropping the regular Cherokee was a huge mistake. Great post.

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post #14 of 52 Old 07-12-2009, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lohchief View Post
Since I'm retired,I have time to waste,so I'll waste some time here talking about jeep The JK,the Grand Cherokee are okay fine,I think when jeep dropped the cherokee line in 01,that was a mistake.That was thier biggest seller,so I think they should bring that back,drop all of the little tiny jeepettes except for the fiat whatever cause they own the company.Jeep (fiat) should also get serious on the new Gladiator to capture the small pickup market which is disappearing fast(american made).All jeeps should have the option of a clean diesel.That alone would greatly boost fleet mpg average,and give us excellent power and economy.There,I wasted enough time
Here here, my wife drives a 2007 Grand Cherokee Limited, with the 4.7L V8. We love it. I have my Wrangler. Other than that...I mean dang who wants a Patriot, Liberty or Compass?? I agree, one of the dumbest things they did was stop the Cherokee. You can't kill those things. Perfect lineup IMO for Jeep would be this

Wrangler (4WD only)
Wrangler Unlimited (4WD only)
Wrangler JT (light pickup) (2WD/4WD )
Cherokee (2WD/4WD 2/4 doors)
Grand Cherokee (2WD/4WD 4dr only)
Gladiator (2WD/4WD, fullsize platform)

I mean think about it. They take the current Liberty/Commander style lookin body that so popular, find a happy medium size between the two, add solid axles front/rear, a 2wd option, 2 and 4 door options, a healthy powerplant/drivetrain. You've got it all covered. You can do base trim all the way up to a Limited for the yuppies that would want one. There goes the need for the Patriot, Liberty and Compass.

The Gladiator, should be FULL SIZE. We need a full size Jeep truck again like the J10 and old Gladiators. I would buy a Wrangler Unlimited size smaller pickup (I agree we need a small pickup again), I think there is definitely a market for a FSJ truck. Maybe not 2500 size but dang a 1/2 truck ain't THAT big.

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"shut the f* up alright? That's the name of my new book, shut the F* up by Dr. Dennis Leary. A revolutionary new form of therapy. I'm gonna have my patients come in, 'Dr?', SHUT THE F* UP, NEXT. 'I don't feel so...', SHUT THE F* UP, NEXT. 'He made me feel so much better about myself, you know, he just told me to shut the F* up and nobody had ever told me that before, I feel so much better now!" Dennis Leary
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post #15 of 52 Old 07-12-2009, 11:12 PM
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Jeep started making the Cherokee again in 2007, it is now a convertible and called an Unlimited Wrangler

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post #16 of 52 Old 07-13-2009, 09:32 AM Thread Starter
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Jeep started making the Cherokee again in 2007, it is now a convertible and called an Unlimited Wrangler
Actually the Jeep management and marketing guys say the Patriot is the new Cherokee.
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post #17 of 52 Old 07-13-2009, 12:53 PM
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We've owned many, many Cherokee's over the years. By far the vehicle of the century IMHO. However, that's how I sold my wife on the Wrangler Unlimited, it's a Cherokee we can take the top off of! When I was at the dealer getting some recalls done I was looking at the brochure I thought to myself, whey the F*** do they make all these very similar small SUV's, Compass, Patriot, Liberty, etc.. IMO they don't need that many models. I think ccdjeep's lineup looks pretty good

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post #18 of 52 Old 07-13-2009, 01:02 PM
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I don't think that parts or warranties are anything that should be a concern. AMC owned Jeep before Chrysler. Chrysler ended up using the AMC engine for many years. When a company buys Jeep they will be buying the warranties as well.
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post #19 of 52 Old 07-14-2009, 09:12 AM
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now it seems as we all focus on the bad tha could happen. i was thinking about it and does anyone think that this might be a good thing for jeep? granted it is now owned by a different country but i could see a diesel alot sooner then you think the euro cars allways use them. i am new to jeep this is my first jeep ever but i bet that we see in major change in the jk in the next coming years with better motors and what not just for the fuel consumption program and what not hell BMW new M3 ghets better gas mileage with their new 8 cylindar motor so who knows.

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post #20 of 52 Old 07-14-2009, 01:58 PM
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Jeep started making the Cherokee again in 2007, it is now a convertible and called an Unlimited Wrangler
Actually they started in 2008 and called it the Liberty KK.
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post #21 of 52 Old 07-14-2009, 02:17 PM
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It has been proven time and time again that contracting a brand generates more sales then expanding a brand. Of course there is always room for improvement like the addition of the 4 door Wrangler but the general rule of thumb is contraction works and expansion doesn't. If you want a rock crawler you got the 2 Door Wrangler, if you want a cross country expedition vehicle (that's also no slouch on the rocks) you have the 4 Door Wrangler and if you want a luxury SUV that can haul the entire family across the country while still maintaining decent off road capability you have the Grand Cherokee. Three options for three needs, simple.
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Actually they started in 2008 and called it the Liberty KK.
Which is why my wife didn't buy a second Liberty. She loved her first one but didn't like the body change.

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post #23 of 52 Old 07-14-2009, 06:37 PM
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, when consumers think small compact trucks they think Toyota, Nissan or Ford so why fight it.
bullshart, when consumers think of small compact truck that have experience with the Jeep brand they think Scramblers. One of the most sought after cj's to date. I partially agree with you on the limited models, but the small truck, the market is there!!!

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"shut the f* up alright? That's the name of my new book, shut the F* up by Dr. Dennis Leary. A revolutionary new form of therapy. I'm gonna have my patients come in, 'Dr?', SHUT THE F* UP, NEXT. 'I don't feel so...', SHUT THE F* UP, NEXT. 'He made me feel so much better about myself, you know, he just told me to shut the F* up and nobody had ever told me that before, I feel so much better now!" Dennis Leary
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now it seems as we all focus on the bad tha could happen. i was thinking about it and does anyone think that this might be a good thing for jeep? granted it is now owned by a different country but i could see a diesel alot sooner then you think the euro cars allways use them. i am new to jeep this is my first jeep ever but i bet that we see in major change in the jk in the next coming years with better motors and what not just for the fuel consumption program and what not hell BMW new M3 ghets better gas mileage with their new 8 cylindar motor so who knows.
it was owned by a foreign country before with no benefits...why would that change now?? Fiat is scrapping bottom of the barrel over there in euro, I hope they sell Jeep.

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"shut the f* up alright? That's the name of my new book, shut the F* up by Dr. Dennis Leary. A revolutionary new form of therapy. I'm gonna have my patients come in, 'Dr?', SHUT THE F* UP, NEXT. 'I don't feel so...', SHUT THE F* UP, NEXT. 'He made me feel so much better about myself, you know, he just told me to shut the F* up and nobody had ever told me that before, I feel so much better now!" Dennis Leary
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post #25 of 52 Old 07-14-2009, 11:09 PM Thread Starter
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When talking about the ENTIRE automotive market the demand IS NOT there. If you're talking about just the specific Jeep market then I will agree with you to a degree. The problem is that Jeep will not be growing their overall market share. All they will be doing is shifting how the SAME funds get to their bank account. In fact, I believe the Wrangler would subsidize a compact truck just like it does the other models in the current Jeep line.

Look, when a company wants to grow and expand their market base it's best to create an entirely new brand. This method will offer the best opportunity of taking away customers from Toyota, Nissan and Ford. All a Jeep truck will do is allow the individual who would have bought a Wrangler the option of buying a truck. It will not allow Jeep to capture any significant amount of market share from the compact truck market. Generally speaking.

On the other hand, an entirely new brand does not bring with it the consumer baggage an existing brand has. What this means is that an existing brand already has a personality and a customer perception, if the brand deviates from that personality and customer perception it will only confuse the customer and sales will drop. In contrast, an new brand has the opportunity to create it's own personality and based upon that marketing a customer perception is forged. This new brand has a better chance of stealing market share from the likes of Toyota then the existing Jeep brand does, at least in the compact truck market.
Don't take this the wrong way MaloCS because it's nothing personal. The more I read posts on automotive forums the more and more guys I run across that just know that they "know" about "the market" and "market share" how to market a brand and how to run a multi-billion dollar a year car company. I don't understand why any American car company should be in financial trouble with the plethora of CEO's on the internet that obviously know how to fix the problems and gain market share. I'm not saying you're wrong Malo, I'm just saying there's a million other guys out there just like you that just "know" how to fix Jeep and Ford and GM and if you spend any amount of time perusing the forums about those respective brands you'll find plenty of them. So far none of them have been right that I have seen.

I think Jeep should take a shot at the small pickup market with the JT, that's my two cents and I don't base it on anything other than I'd like to see it happen and I would probably buy one.

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