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post #1 of 25 Old 10-08-2015, 07:07 AM Thread Starter
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Am I Too Picky?

I don't have any guns, obviously, but I have a question about a gun a "friend" recently bought.

The gun was brand new in the box. It's partly my fault for not looking the gun over thoroughly before purchase, and I only noticed the issue after the purchase. The issue is a very poorly "machined" crown/bevel on the muzzle of the barrel. I use quotes on the word machined because it looks more like someone just chipped away at it with a spoon. This poor machining job has created jagged edges and bulged/smeared metal material which protrudes slightly into the bore. These ridges actually catch and snag bore patches, which is the source of the lint seen in the pictures.

I e-mailed the manufacturer about the issue and they replied quickly, asking for pictures. I sent the pictures below and it has now been several days with no response (I sent the pictures to both the respondent, and to the generic service e-mail). I realize that the firearm is meant for close range self defense, not target competition, but I still feel that a barrel should be properly machined. After 55 rounds fired, the material that interferes with the bore is unchanged.

This issue really bothers me (partly because a firearm isn't quite as simple as most items to return or exchange, and partly because, God forbid, it may be called on to defend lives some day). Am I being too picky? Would any of you just shrug this off, or would your satisfaction with the firearm be as deflated as is mine?




Last edited by BigTB; 10-08-2015 at 07:40 AM.
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post #2 of 25 Old 10-08-2015, 07:08 AM Thread Starter
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Dang it. Sorry about the huge pictures. I'll fix them soon.

Also, Am I'm I...? I didn't get much sleep last night. That's my excuse, haha.

Alright, pictures should be better.

Last edited by BigTB; 10-08-2015 at 07:41 AM.
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post #3 of 25 Old 10-08-2015, 08:19 AM
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how is the accuracy? What brand gat is it?
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post #4 of 25 Old 10-08-2015, 08:34 AM
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I think it depends on the manufacturer... I have different expectations for a HiPoint than I do for a Kimber, for instance.

I've seen new guns with pitting or rust - it's not awful if you're going to shoot it but if it's a safe queen or presentation piece it may be more important.

IMHO - see what the manufacturer says - you can always take it to a gunsmith for their opinion.

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post #5 of 25 Old 10-08-2015, 08:50 AM
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let the Mfg fix it or go shoot it and it will fix it itself. But you are right it should have not made it off the plant floor like that. We expect things to be perfect when we get them and there is nothing wrong with that, that is what we are paying for.

What brand?

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If people don't take a stand now,you'll be bitches under their thumbs tomorrow.
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post #6 of 25 Old 10-08-2015, 09:26 AM Thread Starter
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It is a Kahr. It's their CW line (I actually would have preferred the "P" series, but they are extremely rare around here because the CW line is cheaper and sells better, so that's what the shops stock). I do know that is their "budget" line, but it still bothers me. When I first saw the rough machining on the end of the barrel I chuckled a little and though "wow, they need to swap out whatever tool they used to 'cut' that." But when I saw that there were bulges of metal and ridges interfering with the bore it started bothering me. Patches actually get caught and snagged by the edge. If it was purely cosmetic I wouldn't have worried about it, but that edge is definitely deforming/scraping every bullet that leaves the barrel.

I am definitely waiting until I hear from Kahr to make any decisions. I don't want this thread to seem like a knock against them. I'm not trying to disparage or talk bad about them at all. I'm still waiting to hear what they have to say. Crap happens, and if they feel it's an issue I'm sure they will make it right.

I mostly just wanted to see what other people's gut reaction would be. Mine was that there shouldn't be any errant material or machining issues interfering with the bore of the barrel. Particularly at the crown/muzzle, where the effects can be drastic on bullet flight and stability.

Accuracy is the worst of any of my other pistols (which I obviously don't have anymore), though it's also the smallest, so that's not totally unexpected. Still, I can't help but wonder if the group size would be halved if the bullets weren't scraping past a sharp, uneven ridge of metal as they leave the barrel.

I did find it very easy to shoot, and I really like the trigger. The pull is long, and not very light, but it is very consistent and smooth. I like the sights as well; very precise. When shooting it I felt like I should be getting super tight groups. Not saying I should have been, it just felt that way because of the trigger, light recoil, and precise sights.

I won't talk reliability until after I pass the recommended 200 round break in period. Suffice it to say, I wouldn't feel totally comfortable carrying it yet.
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post #7 of 25 Old 10-08-2015, 09:40 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Sams Misguided Child View Post
let the Mfg fix it or go shoot it and it will fix it itself. But you are right it should have not made it off the plant floor like that. We expect things to be perfect when we get them and there is nothing wrong with that, that is what we are paying for.

What brand?
Yeah, I think some of the material would wear off after a few hundred rounds. However, it is fairly thick in a few spots, particularly at the rifling. I am confident it will not fully wear off. It's difficult to get in pictures, but the rifling lands are bulged at the ends, like the tool simply pushed the material back instead of cutting it off. So a couple of the rifling lands are about double height/thickness for the last millimeter or so, and a little "smeared" to the side in the direction the tool was turning.

Those pictures were taken after about 60 rounds were fired.

If Kahr's response is that they won't do anything I will shoot it at least past the break in period (another 150 rounds or so) and see how it looks/shoots at that point.

Last edited by BigTB; 10-08-2015 at 09:44 AM.
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post #8 of 25 Old 10-08-2015, 01:40 PM
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Man, that is disappointing. My first semi was a K40 when they were new to the market back in the early part of the 2000's. All stainless, Kraton grips, single stack. Beautiful gun, not a sharp edge anywhere on it. That was machined like a Swiss watch. I realize that the CM line is kind of a value line, but still, it shouldn't look like that!

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post #9 of 25 Old 10-08-2015, 02:08 PM
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In the second pic, it looks like the 'defects' are at the ends of the rifling twists, which IMHO would be a machining, or craftsmanship issue. I'd ask them to replace the barrel. If you're lucky, they may just send out a new barrel and you can have a gunsmith fix this one and use for a spare.
I've had issues with a brand new Weatherby and Berretta, both of which were taken care of without question. Each one just took weeks to get back though.
Let us know what happens.
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post #10 of 25 Old 10-08-2015, 07:10 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, I suppose ideally they would just ship me a barrel, rather than me having to ship the whole gun to them. I'd rather not go through that if I can help it. I don't mind sending the original barrel in.

We'll see what Kahr says when they get back to me. They initially replied really quick, but it's been a few days since I sent the pictures and haven't heard anything. I'll try to get hold of them next week if I haven't heard anything.

In case anyone is curious I'll update when I hear something.
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post #11 of 25 Old 10-09-2015, 06:12 AM
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We are always curious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lohchief View Post
If people don't take a stand now,you'll be bitches under their thumbs tomorrow.
Quote:
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I think too much of a pressure variant between Earth and outer-space... lack of oxygen... something like that.
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post #12 of 25 Old 10-09-2015, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Sams Misguided Child View Post
We are always bi-curious.
We?

Quote:
Originally Posted by braindead0 View Post
Some folks are fine with being screwed over, perhaps finding confrontation to be more stressful than just living with whatever the problem is. These are excellent consumers, manufactured to the finest specifications.
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post #13 of 25 Old 10-09-2015, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKCTAZ View Post
We?
Well for you its not curious anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lohchief View Post
If people don't take a stand now,you'll be bitches under their thumbs tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StubEXrube View Post
I think too much of a pressure variant between Earth and outer-space... lack of oxygen... something like that.
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post #14 of 25 Old 10-09-2015, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
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Are you saying VWCTAZ isn't picky? He's fine with an extra bulge of material at the business end?
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post #15 of 25 Old 10-09-2015, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTB View Post
Are you saying VWCTAZ isn't picky? He's fine with an extra bulge of material at the business end?
He is not picky nor curious anymore.


And can't we have one single thread with out it derailing? Just kidding, we can't

Quote:
Originally Posted by lohchief View Post
If people don't take a stand now,you'll be bitches under their thumbs tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StubEXrube View Post
I think too much of a pressure variant between Earth and outer-space... lack of oxygen... something like that.
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post #16 of 25 Old 10-09-2015, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
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Eh, I suppose it will get back on track once I hear from Kahr. If I don't hear from them by Monday I may try calling them.
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post #17 of 25 Old 10-10-2015, 05:47 PM
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FWIW, a few years ago the trigger bar on my Kahr CW9 broke (after a few thousand rounds and owning it for a couple years) I talked to Kahr about the problem and sent it back to them. Kahr had no problem replacing the broken part and other than the cost to ship it to them it cost me nothing and I got the gun back within a couple weeks totally fixed.

My point is, at least back then, Kahr had excellent customer service. I'd wait another business day and send a follow up email.

On a side note, the CW line had some parts that were injection molded as opposed to machined. None the less the CW9 is a very accurate shooter, I had no problem hitting 6 inch steel plates at 25 yards all day long.

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post #18 of 25 Old 10-12-2015, 02:15 PM Thread Starter
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Kahr requested I send the barrel and slide to them with a note requesting the barrel be replaced. I'll update when I get everything back, but it sounds like they are going to replace the barrel.
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post #19 of 25 Old 10-15-2015, 05:58 AM
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And hopefully it will point out a step in their process that needs to be looked at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lohchief View Post
If people don't take a stand now,you'll be bitches under their thumbs tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StubEXrube View Post
I think too much of a pressure variant between Earth and outer-space... lack of oxygen... something like that.
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post #20 of 25 Old 10-16-2015, 12:47 PM
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They'll take care of you, Kahr is a good company. I have a few each of the P series and CW series, and haven't experienced anything like that. From a more general perspective, guns are f'in expensive. The answer about whether you should ask the mfg to fix it is always 'yes'. So far I've sent an FNH back (almost two), a Ruger revolver, an M&P which turned out to be a hopeless unfixable piece of shit, one Kahr P with an out-of-spec rifling leade dimension, and a Marlin. For what these things cost they need to be right.

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post #21 of 25 Old 11-05-2015, 12:57 PM Thread Starter
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Update for anyone still interested.

I shipped the slide and barrel to Kahr and I just got the box back from Kahr with the slide and a new barrel. It took me a while to get around to sending the thing in, so the turnaround was actually very fast. The package shipped out last Monday (26th) and I received the package back today, so that's a little over a week from the time I shipped it until I received it back. Pretty darn quick.

The new barrel looks good. No issues to note.
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post #22 of 25 Old 11-05-2015, 01:11 PM
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Good to see companies that take care of their customers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lohchief View Post
If people don't take a stand now,you'll be bitches under their thumbs tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StubEXrube View Post
I think too much of a pressure variant between Earth and outer-space... lack of oxygen... something like that.
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post #23 of 25 Old 11-05-2015, 04:54 PM
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Good to hear. Hopefully they can figure out if it's an isolated incident.
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post #24 of 25 Old 11-07-2015, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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Just got back from the range a little while ago. The gun shot well enough. I don't know if it was me, or if it was picky about ammo (I tried several different brands/types of ammo), but sometimes it seemed like I was putting round after round into a three inch or so black circle, and sometimes I would suddenly be scattering them into about a 6" or so group. Might have just been me. I was having trouble holding still because the wind was really gusting and was literally rocking me around some of the time. Excuses, excuses. Either way, I was satisfied with the accuracy.

Function wasn't too bad. I had a couple stoppages, but they were both in the first 50 rounds or so. I probably fired between 110-120 rounds total with a mix of FMJ and HP.

I drove home fairly pleased. I took it apart to clean it when I got home and found this.



Looks like another e-mail to Kahr is in order. I don't know how easy it is to tell in the picture, but there should be a little half-circle ear sticking up near the center of the photo. You can see the rough spot where that is broken off.

Bummer.
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post #25 of 25 Old 11-10-2015, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
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Kahr is sending me a replacement part. I'll get some more rounds through it when the new part arrives and see how it goes from there.
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