Ive heard this saying over and over but dont understand it - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 10-12-2014, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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Ive heard this saying over and over but dont understand it

The saying is that in a home, the pistols main function is to fight your way to your rifle . I just dont understand . It seems to me that a pistol would be a tactical advantage within the confines of doors and hallways . Please set me straight on this . Mark
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post #2 of 30 Old 10-12-2014, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snofrog View Post
The saying is that in a home, the pistols main function is to fight your way to your rifle . I just dont understand . It seems to me that a pistol would be a tactical advantage within the confines of doors and hallways . Please set me straight on this . Mark
For me it really depends on the situation; # of people I know in that are the house, location of my family, my location in regards to them and the rifle. A lot of info to try and process in a short amount of time, I have a gun in every room in the house other than the spare bedrooms. And no you couldn't find them unless I showed them to you. But if there are multiple threats then yes the pistol is merely a tool to get me to my rifle. I have more ammo and am very comfortable with it. But its really all about the situation.

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post #3 of 30 Old 10-12-2014, 03:50 PM
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Keep in mind that the rifle itself can be used as a defensive tool. Muzzle thump to the chest gets someone's attention.

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post #4 of 30 Old 10-12-2014, 06:25 PM
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The rifle will give you better options in a home defense situation. But and it is a life and death one, Training is vastly more important than the choice of tool. I won't attempt to tell you which company or trainer to choose, but I can tell you that having a trainer based in reality will be your best choice.
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post #5 of 30 Old 10-13-2014, 09:29 AM
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Neither beats a shotgun.....

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post #6 of 30 Old 10-13-2014, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snofrog View Post
...in a home, the pistols main function is to fight your way to your rifle .
You've heard the original misquoted and taken out of context...

"A handgun is for fighting your way to your rifle which you shouldn't have put down in the first place".
- Attributed to Clint Smith/Thunder Ranch (I've not found it directly connected).

It was not directed at home defense. Consider the Grunt taking a coffee break or the LEO that finds himself in a gunfight. One may have left his battle weapon on a sandbag and the other has their long weapon in the cruiser.
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post #7 of 30 Old 10-13-2014, 04:23 PM Thread Starter
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You've heard the original misquoted and taken out of context...

"A handgun is for fighting your way to your rifle which you shouldn't have put down in the first place".
- Attributed to Clint Smith/Thunder Ranch (I've not found it directly connected).

It was not directed at home defense. Consider the Grunt taking a coffee break or the LEO that finds himself in a gunfight. One may have left his battle weapon on a sandbag and the other has their long weapon in the cruiser.
Thanks
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post #8 of 30 Old 10-14-2014, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Performance, Inc View Post
Neither beats a shotgun.....
True dat! Hurts them bad enough that they die.

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post #9 of 30 Old 10-15-2014, 01:02 AM Thread Starter
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When it comes to home protection I just picture a long gun in a phone booth . I`m not saying it isnt doable , it just doesnt seem practical .
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post #10 of 30 Old 10-15-2014, 01:13 AM
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BINGO!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CT Performance, Inc View Post
Neither beats a shotgun.....

Right here is the number one answer. The rifle statement is just a term used for long gun/ what is meant or should be said is. A pistol is a tool/ main function is to fight your way to a shotgun. NOTHING Beats a shotgun for home defense for the avg. person. Meaning someone who is not trained and actively trained &/or skilled in CQB/CQC.

And for the phone booth argument. Really who's home is that small? Really. Well let me elaborate, if for some reason it still makes sense to you.

Highly trained war-fighters who are on the tip of the spear do not train CQC/CQB tactics with a pistol as they clear a house, building, or apartments. The pistol is the backup if things go wrong with their RIFLE.

So if you look at it that way then it all makes sense. If a pistol was a much better suited weapon for CQC/CQB then they wouldn't use a rifle in those situations/ scenario's.

It's been said but I'll say it again. Muzzle striking someone is much more effective than hitting them with your pistol. If you muzzle strike you can or should still be able to effectively use your rifle. Where as with a pistol if he is that close for you to hit him what your really doing is fighting for the pistol to not be taken away.

Hope this helps to make things a bit more clearer.


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post #11 of 30 Old 10-15-2014, 04:21 AM
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Perhaps >>>>>>>>http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/ksg/shotgun/

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post #12 of 30 Old 10-15-2014, 07:34 AM
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That's sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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post #13 of 30 Old 10-17-2014, 11:37 PM
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I would suggest taking a carbine class, then see if that changes your perspective. Most do not understand until they actually use concepts instead of reading them.
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post #14 of 30 Old 10-18-2014, 01:44 AM Thread Starter
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I would suggest taking a carbine class, then see if that changes your perspective. Most do not understand until they actually use concepts instead of reading them.
perhaps I will , thanks
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post #15 of 30 Old 10-18-2014, 08:57 AM
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I think the comment is also due to the fact that a pistol is a pretty ineffective weapon. There are a ton of video clips out there where people have been shot with pistols and live for minutes, even thought the wound is through a serious part of the body. I remember watching some of them one of the times I went to Gunsite, and it was crazy how a 100 pound girl got hit in the heart and still lived for minutes. I also had a fried that was Swat in NYC and the drug raids they do are crazy. The stories of people being shot with handgun and still coming after the cops are crazy.

Shotgun is pretty heard to beat but I just cant carry one around as easy.

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post #16 of 30 Old 10-27-2014, 09:45 AM
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If your rifle is too long to use in the confines of a hallway or closet, you're doing it wrong!



That's my suppressed 300 BLK SBR. The suppressed 9mm SBR that lives under my bed is even shorter.
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post #17 of 30 Old 10-27-2014, 10:00 AM
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Rifle for home defense isn't what I would ever use, way to high of a chance that it will penetrate the home walls maybe hitting others in the house and possibly hit your neighbor's.

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post #18 of 30 Old 10-27-2014, 12:28 PM
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All rounds (rifle, handgun and shotgun) will penetrate multiple layers of drywall. You should be aware of what's beyond your target in any case.

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post #19 of 30 Old 10-27-2014, 12:50 PM
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That's why a shotgun is best......1st round with #4 bird shot then reduced power 00 buck shells in 12 gauge if they don't get the message.

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post #20 of 30 Old 10-27-2014, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Performance, Inc View Post
That's why a shotgun is best......1st round with #4 bird shot then reduced power 00 buck shells in 12 gauge if they don't get the message.
Bad idea.

Let's make our first shot that we'll use when we have a threat to our life and are already adrenaline dumped and stressed (and in a condition/situation few actually train for/in) the weakest...

and as we progress further into that situation with a low capacity weapon system, we'll move on to more effective ammunition while we're physically soaked in neurotransmitters and hormones from a fight or flight event in our life.


Birdshot even at close range does not penetrate reliably far enough to endanger vital organs from most aspects of engagement, on average humans. You'd be better served by taking a class and learning to shoot while stressed.
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post #21 of 30 Old 10-28-2014, 05:58 AM
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#4 BUCKshot is a decent option for home defense, #4 birdshot, notsomuch.

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post #22 of 30 Old 10-28-2014, 08:46 AM
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The intent is to stop them without killing them, a face full of bird shot and if they still are coming then next will stop them dead. Lots easier to have a viable legal defense when you can prove you tried not to kill the person.

Training...Military and Police shooting inaccuracy proves that under stress the VAST majority of trained personal cannot hit anything. Talk to anyone that has been in combat.

Training for close range gun fighting is difficult, expertise and training are reserved for very specialized troops.

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post #23 of 30 Old 10-28-2014, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Hooz View Post
The suppressed 9mm SBR that lives under my bed is even shorter.
SO nice of you to be considerate of other's sleep time.
Reality? I wouldn't want to be blowin' out my eardrums in an enclosed environment either. Sweet set-ups!

Quote:
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The intent is to stop them without killing them
Bullshit...and their intent was just to see if you had some spare change lyin' around? Fuck 'em, blow 'em away...or do you pass the buck on every difficult encounter you experience?

Seriously, the viable legal defense is they broke into the house in the wee hours of the morning.
Were you afraid you'd have to make them breakfast or afraid for your life?

NO ONE, at any time, has the right to enter your residence without your permission. If they do, they obviously have no regard for you or your rights.
You're gonna take chances like, eh, maybe I'll just go for a wing shot?
Dude, you're dead.

You can tell whatever story you want if there's no one to contest it.
I'm tellin' the truth and walkin'.
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post #24 of 30 Old 10-28-2014, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Performance, Inc View Post
The intent is to stop them without killing them, a face full of bird shot and if they still are coming then next will stop them dead. Lots easier to have a viable legal defense when you can prove you tried not to kill the person.

Training...Military and Police shooting inaccuracy proves that under stress the VAST majority of trained personal cannot hit anything. Talk to anyone that has been in combat.

Training for close range gun fighting is difficult, expertise and training are reserved for very specialized troops.


To the last 2 statements.... Military uses suppressive fire, Police use pistols and minimal training with them. I've been in combat in multiple theaters and spearheaded both.

Close range gunfighting is only as difficult as you make it.

let's see why a shotgun wins over a rifle
  • 9-15 >.30 cal projectiles per round fired

let's see why a rifle or pistol wins over a shotgun
  • Ability to reload to full capacity in under 2 seconds
  • Even a revolver typically has more rounds
  • Same level of accuracy is required as a rifle for residential applcations
  • Ability to use "other" ammunition allows foolhardy selections due to "I tried to wound him" as a defense mentality

Your viable legal defense is that they were a threat to your person or those around you, not that you used a lethal weapon with the intent to wound. You want to try not to kill the person, don't use a firearm use a frigging Taser. I don't recommend either.

State laws don't have a differentiation for ammunition within the statutes for affirmative defense of a murder charge due to self defense. You're shooting at a person, even if you used a damn rubber slug or beanbag you can be up a brown river legally.
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post #25 of 30 Old 10-28-2014, 11:46 AM
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Rem 870 witness protection AOW with 2/4 mix.

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