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post #1 of 25 Old 12-27-2013, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
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Scope questions.

So, I've got a Savage Axis chambered in .308, and currently it's wearing a cheap Bushnell 3x9 that came with it. The problem with the Bushnell is that it won't zero. I've tried everything I could think of: adjusting the turrets, changing the rings/position of rings, using shims to raise/lower the rings. It just won't come close to a similar POA/POI. It's shooting a good 6" low at 100 yards, and just won't come up any further.
Might there be something I'm overlooking?

I am not opposed to a new scope altogether. I've been looking around, but would like some input as well. I want to get into long range shooting, so I'd like something that will allow me to shoot upwards of 600/700+ yards, with mil dots and the like inside the scope, around the $300 range. I know the rifle will easily make the shot, I just need need some suggestions on an Optic.
I went and looked today at a Nikon 4x12 with the BDS reticle, which was nice, for about $140. I've got more in my budget, so if there is something comparable for a little bit more coin, I'd love to hear it!

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post #2 of 25 Old 12-27-2013, 04:04 PM
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If I'm understanding it correctly, you have bottomed out your elevation turret but you're still hitting low?? Was it shooting higher than 6 inches before?? Then you lowered it as far as it goes and got it to 6in???
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post #3 of 25 Old 12-27-2013, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by afd660 View Post
If I'm understanding it correctly, you have bottomed out your elevation turret but you're still hitting low?? Was it shooting higher than 6 inches before?? Then you lowered it as far as it goes and got it to 6in???
Correct. Before I bottomed out the elevation, it wasn't even on paper at 100 yards. Now that the turret is bottomed out, it's shooting about 6".

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post #4 of 25 Old 12-27-2013, 04:15 PM
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A buddy of mine had the same problem with his bushnell. Of course it was a Walmart 30-40.00 scope sooo.......

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post #5 of 25 Old 12-27-2013, 04:16 PM
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what does your grouping at closer distances look like?
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post #6 of 25 Old 12-27-2013, 04:25 PM
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You don't have 30mm high rings mounts do you?? lol.. You have a nice shot group 6in low??? Whats your spread between a 3 or 4 shot group??
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post #7 of 25 Old 12-27-2013, 04:32 PM
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Let me add to my list of questions
what do your 20-50m groups look like?
Was this a factory mount and optic or you added? Previous owner added?
That mount/riser/rings?
Are they tight?
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post #8 of 25 Old 12-27-2013, 04:54 PM Thread Starter
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The last time I took it out and shot it, it was grouping pretty nicely. Just, really low of the POA. If I hold in the same spot, it groups just fine, like a Savage would. Less than a 2" group at what I walked out to be around 100 some yards. Just really really low.
As far as I can tell, everything on the scope (rings/mounts etc) was all tight and had no wobble.

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post #9 of 25 Old 12-27-2013, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmcdoc14 View Post
Let me add to my list of questions
what do your 20-50m groups look like?
Was this a factory mount and optic or you added? Previous owner added?
That mount/riser/rings?
Are they tight?
Scope came on the rifle from the dealer (Big 5 Sports) with the Bushnell and the rings. Everything is torqued down correctly.

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post #10 of 25 Old 12-27-2013, 05:09 PM
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See if you have a buddy that is willing to unmount his scope and let you try it out. Might just need a new scope like you said. After all it is a man-made piece of equipment that could have been completed on a Friday at 458pm. LOL. It might be broken on the inside and the mechanisims are not moving the crosshairs correctly.
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post #11 of 25 Old 12-27-2013, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afd660 View Post
See if you have a buddy that is willing to unmount his scope and let you try it out. Might just need a new scope like you said. After all it is a man-made piece of equipment that could have been completed on a Friday at 458pm. LOL. It might be broken on the inside and the mechanisims are not moving the crosshairs correctly.
Yeah, if I can find a buddy to loan me he scope, I'd definitely try it.
I've got my eye on the Millett trs-1 scope, which looks really solid. Right about at the top of my budget for a scope, but I have only seen positive things about it. I'll probably end up going to a new scope to see if that fixes the problem.

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post #12 of 25 Old 12-27-2013, 09:40 PM
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Oh just to be certain. Are you sure you dong have your elevation and windage knobs mixed up??? lol. I've seen it before. they have it rotated where the elevation knob is the windage, and the windage is the elevation. LOL. Windage knobs generally have less adjustment than elevation. But I have seen some scopes that have both the same amount of "clicks" or adjustment.
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post #13 of 25 Old 12-27-2013, 09:55 PM
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Is your scope mounted as low as possible to the barrel?

Are you changing your cheek to stock placement, and changing your sight picture?

Is it a cheap scope?

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post #14 of 25 Old 12-27-2013, 10:15 PM Thread Starter
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Oh just to be certain. Are you sure you dong have your elevation and windage knobs mixed up??? lol. I've seen it before. they have it rotated where the elevation knob is the windage, and the windage is the elevation. LOL. Windage knobs generally have less adjustment than elevation. But I have seen some scopes that have both the same amount of "clicks" or adjustment.
Hahah, No, I didn't have the knobs mixed up. C'mon, I deserve a little more credit than that. lol I'm positive that the Elevation turret is bottomed out, but the Windage Turret was almost dead on.

Quote:
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Is your scope mounted as low as possible to the barrel?

Are you changing your cheek to stock placement, and changing your sight picture?

Is it a cheap scope?
It's mounted pretty close to the barrel, as much as it can be.

Not the best picture of the rings, but it shows it best than anything else I have.

Sight picture/cheek weld is spot on. This isn't the first scoped gun I've had/fired. Just the first that refuses to zero.

Indeed, it is. A cheep Bushnell that came on the rifle when I bought it.

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post #15 of 25 Old 12-27-2013, 11:24 PM
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LOL. ok just wanted to make sure. Sometimes I forget the simple things when shooting also. Yeah your rings and everything look good from what I can see. I would say to shim the bottom of the back ring but I'm not a fan of shims and don't think it would move it down 6 inches at 100yds anyways. If you can, count the "clicks it takes to get to full elevation and see how many there are. I'm curious as to the amount.
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post #16 of 25 Old 12-28-2013, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CadetBaller View Post
Yeah, if I can find a buddy to loan me he scope, I'd definitely try it.
I've got my eye on the Millett trs-1 scope, which looks really solid. Right about at the top of my budget for a scope, but I have only seen positive things about it. I'll probably end up going to a new scope to see if that fixes the problem.
That's the one I have on my M1A. For the money it is a good scope.

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post #17 of 25 Old 12-28-2013, 07:08 AM
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Only other thing I can think of is try to move the scope forward or back in the rings. That will affect elevation. However, I am not certain which direction produces what.

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post #18 of 25 Old 12-28-2013, 07:17 AM
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Its plain and simple. You have already put way too much effort into this scope. Time to just trash it and get a better one. If I had a scope that was like that I wouldnt hesitate to take it off immediately. And for some strange reason You get it dialed in would u ever trust it? Sounds to me that there is an internal failure with the adjustments. do yourself a favor and start over fresh.

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post #19 of 25 Old 12-28-2013, 02:05 PM
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I just noticed....Take that barrel mounted bipod and clamp off and try it with that. You don't want anything to touch a barrel or the least amount as possible. Shoot off of a rucksack or something stable supported by the stock. If you're loading the bipod and clamp with pressure it might be stressing the barrel down some. 6in low at 100 i'm not sure, but remember anything done at the rifle is multiplied at range. There are 3 types of ballistics. Internal, external, and terminal. That clamp could be messing up internal ballistics and the barrel harmonics. Just a theory though.
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post #20 of 25 Old 12-28-2013, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afd660 View Post
I just noticed....Take that barrel mounted bipod and clamp off and try it with that. You don't want anything to touch a barrel or the least amount as possible. Shoot off of a rucksack or something stable supported by the stock. If you're loading the bipod and clamp with pressure it might be stressing the barrel down some. 6in low at 100 i'm not sure, but remember anything done at the rifle is multiplied at range. There are 3 types of ballistics. Internal, external, and terminal. That clamp could be messing up internal ballistics and the barrel harmonics. Just a theory though.
Very true with a free float barrel. But with pressure it would more than likely shoot high....

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post #21 of 25 Old 12-28-2013, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afd660 View Post
I just noticed....Take that barrel mounted bipod and clamp off and try it with that. You don't want anything to touch a barrel or the least amount as possible. Shoot off of a rucksack or something stable supported by the stock. If you're loading the bipod and clamp with pressure it might be stressing the barrel down some. 6in low at 100 i'm not sure, but remember anything done at the rifle is multiplied at range. There are 3 types of ballistics. Internal, external, and terminal. That clamp could be messing up internal ballistics and the barrel harmonics. Just a theory though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolltidejk View Post
Very true with a free float barrel. But with pressure it would more than likely shoot high....

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You are correct, it is a free-floated barrel. However, the barrel mount has never been used while firing the rifle. When last I tried to zero it, I was using a lead sled, no bipod, so there were no external factors adversely affecting the rifle. I'm quite familiar with free-floated barrels and their harmonics, and how anything touching them can distort said harmonics and degrade accuracy.
I'm not the one who put that on, though. Mom's BF thought he knew better than I, and put it on without my knowledge/consent. One of my biggest pet peeves is the fact that he is considered the omnipotent, definitive source for everything and is always right. My gun, my mods, not his place. But that's another rant.
I'll be getting a swivel stud to picatinny rail mount to mount the bipod on, so that when it's zeroed in and what not I will have a stable shooting platform.

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post #22 of 25 Old 12-29-2013, 05:20 PM
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What grain of bullet are you shooting? Are you using some of the cheap reloads that can be bought.

I would go with Remington 150 grain and see where it is on paper, then Remington 180 grain. If that doesn't help then look at the scope.

I've seen way too often that the cheap off brands do not use quality powder and you will consistently shot low at 100+.

Just my .02
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post #23 of 25 Old 12-30-2013, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
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What grain of bullet are you shooting? Are you using some of the cheap reloads that can be bought.

I would go with Remington 150 grain and see where it is on paper, then Remington 180 grain. If that doesn't help then look at the scope.

I've seen way too often that the cheap off brands do not use quality powder and you will consistently shot low at 100+.

Just my .02
I've only fed two different rounds through it: 165gr Remi Accutip and CBC 168gr.
I haven't tried them both together, but it seems to me like the CBC rounds shot a tad bit higher at about 100 yards.

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post #24 of 25 Old 12-30-2013, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
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Neither of them are cheap reloads, but the Remington rounds do look like they were better made. The quality of the brass isn't as great on the CBCs as the Remi, but, like I said, they seem to have been grouping a bit higher than the Remington rounds.


Sorry for the huge ass pictures, the little shits won't re-size!

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post #25 of 25 Old 01-01-2014, 10:16 AM
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Is that A 0 degree MOA base?

If not, could it be mounted backwards? (I wound unmount & remount just to be sure it was mounted correctly, I NEVER trust anyone else to mount a scope/sight for me)

BTW, for a good, reasonably priced scopes, look at SWFA.com

More specifically, look at http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-Scopes-C1719.aspx

Good glass for the price, and they stand behind their product
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