Sticking the Hemi – 2008 JKUR, 392 With Getrag 238 - Page 2 - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #26 of 66 Old 12-02-2018, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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It helps keep crap from the PCV line out of the intake, helps keep combustion chambers clean.
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post #27 of 66 Old 02-10-2019, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
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Exhaust

When I tell my co-workers I'm working on the exhaust now, they say "ooo you're just about done!!" L.O.L. The running joke with them is that I only have a couple of months to go, and we've been saying that for about a year now lol.

I first tried an off-the-shelf ball & socket female side flange to connect up to the stock header flange. It didn't look like the simple metal-to-metal joint would seal very well; and I cooked the crap out of the first set of down tubes (and was using Solar Flux on the back of the welds instead of argon). So I found a couple sets of stock downtube flanges (in case one set becomes the "practice" set), cut and chiseled the original tubes out, and am now welding in some 304 stainless. Bolted the two extra flanges to the one being welded, and then clamped them in the middle with vise grips to minimize warping.

The stock downtube flanges have a recessed notch for an OEM graphite gasket; these should be more forgiving with warpage and still seal.

If you go this route, you'll need to get a hydraulic tubing expander. The flanges have an i.d. that the tubes slip into that is 3.300". Don't assume the 2.75" stock tubing is supposed to fit in those flanges, and buy a set of 2.75" to 3" adapter tubes like I did lol. 3" tubing expanded to 3.300". OR, just cut off the stock header flanges and go with Marman flanges. OR, fab a set of custom headers. OR, avoid this can of worms and just use the stock GC logs and a kit exhaust lol.

I will say though - the welding is quite fun.





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post #28 of 66 Old 02-10-2019, 04:10 PM
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If you give up on building, kooks headers and exhausts has one for the 6.4 that you can buy.

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post #29 of 66 Old 02-10-2019, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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If you give up on building, kooks headers and exhausts has one for the 6.4 that you can buy.

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Are they a special order or something? All I see out there are headers for the JK-chevys...
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post #30 of 66 Old 02-11-2019, 02:44 AM
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Are they a special order or something? All I see out there are headers for the JK-chevys...
Call them and ask for Jamie. They were building them for resale through Rubitrux.

They are only a couple miles from me. I can do some digging. Initially they were going to build a complete exhaust using my Jeep as a template. They didnt like the way the stock manifold were so tight to Todd's motor mount. I introduced them to Rubitrux and they went with them.

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post #31 of 66 Old 02-11-2019, 03:11 AM
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Are they a special order or something? All I see out there are headers for the JK-chevys...
I use the AFE cat back 3" exhaust for the JK.

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post #32 of 66 Old 02-11-2019, 06:23 AM
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This might be the second or third hemi swap thread with a manual transmission out here, so hopefully this will be useful to some of you out there who refuse to slushbox your hemi haha. I’ll try not to duplicate too much from other threads because if you’re seriously considering this project, you’ve probably already read and re-read all of the others (you know you have).

So why a hemi, why not LS? It all came down to the stick. LS engines are mostly limited to the NV4500 which some have said is a little truck-like, especially with its low 5.61:1 1st gear (stock NSG370 is possible, but you’d need a TJ bellhousing and the trans is fairly weak anyway). The Getrag 238 is geared similarly to the NSG, and even though their input torque rating (300 lb-ft) doesn’t inspire confidence behind a ~500 lb-ft hemi, I haven’t seen very many complaints about failures online.

Here’s a list of the things I did that you may not have seen before:
• Group 31 Odyssey battery, with Odyssey battery hold-down bracket kit
• 4/0 cables for the starter-to-battery, alternator-to-battery, and engine-to-battery ground
• Oil catch can
• 3.6 JK fan conversion (and mods to make it fit!)
• AEV snorkel (and DIY coolant reservoir)
• DIY lower radiator hose
• SRT / Hellcat exhaust manifolds
• True dual exhaust with x-pipe, Spintech 9000XL Super Pro Street mufflers

…And also some other mods:
• Teraflex 2WD Low TC conversion
• Rock Slide Engineering TC brace (modified for stock rear driveshaft)
• PSC pump, reservoir with large cooler

I’d recommend having a second driver while you’re working your swap. My project started in January 2017 with an engine purchase, the Jeep has been in the garage since February 2018, and as of late November I still have maybe another couple of months to finish the exhaust. I spent many hours doing other things, you know, while I had the access. Things like a front axle rebuild (new u-joints, added a truss, new unit bearings, added anti-flop tie rod joint caps), transfer case mods, hood vents, lots of diy mods etc. Although, if I didn’t have the second car, I probably would have finished it in a week or so haha. Choose your poison!


This sounds cool. I have saved several build threads I haven't had time to read thru & this sounds like a good one.

Fwiw: I'm a huge proponent & multiple item owner of the ( sadly, no longer produced / made / sold by anyone, presently ) Impulse Offroad TC brace for the NP241 that was sold by RockSlide Engineering. I've talked to impulse owner & he hadn't been aware of them dropping it ,& maybe presently looking for another means of marketing the brilliant little strengthener that I feel is so important.

Anyway, thanks for sharing this unique build !


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post #33 of 66 Old 02-11-2019, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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This sounds cool. I have saved several build threads I haven't had time to read thru & this sounds like a good one.



Fwiw: I'm a huge proponent & multiple item owner of the ( sadly, no longer produced / made / sold by anyone, presently ) Impulse Offroad TC brace for the NP241 that was sold by RockSlide Engineering. I've talked to impulse owner & he hadn't been aware of them dropping it ,& maybe presently looking for another means of marketing the brilliant little strengthener that I feel is so important.



Anyway, thanks for sharing this unique build !





Thank you sir. Always good to give back to the forum.

Here's my RSE TC brace - sneaked in the mods while waiting on parts. Not sure how the newer braces are packaged (bought this one directly from RSE in 2014), but the included fasteners were shitty grade 5 (whatever the metric equivalent is). I repurposed some extra class 10.9 bolts instead, because I really suck at extracting broken bolts lol. Also clearanced it for the stock DS - not sure how long until I upgrade to double cardan shafts. Also shaved the bottom to help with skid plate clearance. Still doesn't clear so I'm going to modify the skid.

The brace still looks plenty strong even with the trimming. They'd probably sell a lot more if they just made them this way.
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post #34 of 66 Old 02-11-2019, 05:47 PM
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Are they a special order or something? All I see out there are headers for the JK-chevys...
I called Kooks for you today. The exhaust they built is for the 6.4L. It is labeled and made for RubiTrux which means you have to buy it from Rubitrux. It is a complete from the block all the way back setup...

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post #35 of 66 Old 02-11-2019, 06:00 PM
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You have one of those rare balancers on the rear yoke.
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post #36 of 66 Old 02-11-2019, 06:15 PM Thread Starter
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I called Kooks for you today. The exhaust they built is for the 6.4L. It is labeled and made for RubiTrux which means you have to buy it from Rubitrux. It is a complete from the block all the way back setup...

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Good to know - thanks! I e-mailed Borla last year about their jk hemi exhaust; but they must be under some exclusive contract to Dakota Customs. I'll keep Rubitrux in mind in case my home-made exhaust blows up lol.

Forgot to mention - I don't think any of the current aftermarket JK hemi headers will fit around the G238 (esp. left side). Starter and bellhousing stick out quite a bit more than the autos. I also thought about getting a set of the headers from RPMFAB (who now own V8HJ) and see if they'd work; but they would have cost ~$100 to ship back. Hell I might try fabbing up my own set if the stock headers don't work out...
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post #37 of 66 Old 02-24-2019, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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Took a short break from the Jeep and went to a car show with the family.




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post #38 of 66 Old 02-24-2019, 02:55 PM
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Took a short break from the Jeep and went to a car show with the family.
How did your like the JT? What did you think about it? Now that I sold my JKU, I think that is my next build some time next year.

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post #39 of 66 Old 02-24-2019, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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How did your like the JT? What did you think about it? Now that I sold my JKU, I think that is my next build some time next year.

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If you don't need the breakover or departure angles, then I guess it's OK. Not a big fan of all the additional electrical/electronic gizmos. The doors and rear tailgate were surprisingly light (I mean I knew they went to aluminum, but wow they swung very easily and would definitely be much more pleasant to remove/install). Too bad they didn't make the removable stuff (tops, doors, bumpers and fenders) compatible with the JK. The designs are too similar to have changed them simply for looks.
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post #40 of 66 Old 02-24-2019, 03:13 PM
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If you don't need the breakover or departure angles, then I guess it's OK. Not a big fan of all the additional electrical/electronic gizmos. The doors and rear tailgate were surprisingly light (I mean I knew they went to aluminum, but wow they swung very easily and would definitely be much more pleasant to remove/install). Too bad they didn't make the removable stuff (tops, doors, bumpers and fenders) compatible with the JK. The designs are too similar to have changed them simply for looks.
My thought is go straight to 37s. I do need the break over angles out here in NC. Some of the trails can also be tight, wheel base is also important.... cant wait to see 1 in person.

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post #41 of 66 Old 03-14-2019, 06:15 AM
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Call them and ask for Jamie. They were building them for resale through Rubitrux.

They are only a couple miles from me. I can do some digging. Initially they were going to build a complete exhaust using my Jeep as a template. They didnt like the way the stock manifold were so tight to Todd's motor mount. I introduced them to Rubitrux and they went with them.

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We build a set of headers for the Jeep JK and the 5.7L and the 6.4L, also a complete exhaust system.

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post #42 of 66 Old 03-14-2019, 06:23 AM Thread Starter
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We build a set of headers for the Jeep JK and the 5.7L and the 6.4L, also a complete exhaust system.
Do you make headers that fit around the G238?
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post #43 of 66 Old 03-14-2019, 06:29 AM
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Do you make headers that fit around the G238?
We have sold a set to a guy that put a Getrag 238, he said they fit. I have pics of a set we have on our Jeep with a 545RFE transmission, I will find them and put them up.

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post #44 of 66 Old 03-24-2019, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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Waiting on some exhaust pipe flanges that (hopefully) won't leak. They're called Marman flanges and are made from stainless tubing with an end former. They use off-the-shelf V-band clamps. The shop owner had some issues with incorrect dimensions; corrected parts should be here by end of week.

Since the welds are located further away from the flange than the common "V-band" machined flanges, these shoudn't warp nearly as much.

EDIT: Just received some supposedly corrected parts on 3/28/19. The original set didn't clamp together properly and were still loose after tightening the clamp all the way. They replaced the female flanges and were supposed to be better sized, but they're basically identical to the originals. Returning these and going to try something else. What a disappointment - spent about 6 weeks trying to get a batch of these that would work. Maybe they will straighten out their manufacturing process eventually; but for now I'd recommend you not waste your time with these.



I've learned that idle hands (like when waiting on parts) makes me more likely to add silly mini projects to this swap. Decided to run the tail pipes through the rear crossmember (and eventually the bumper). With the body lift, I'll be able to tuck the mufflers higher and nearly flush with the frame rails. May as well take advantage of the extra space. This should help protect the exhaust tips from getting smashed on the trails. Plus, I figured if this mod doesn't work out, I can cut it out completely and go with one of the crossmember replacement options.

For the crossmember clearance holes, I'm using Sch. 40 ASTM A-500, 4-1/2" od x ~4" id, 4" length. Welded in with stick 6011.


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post #45 of 66 Old 03-25-2019, 11:28 AM
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Hey Rockystock,

I am in the parts gathering/rebuilding stage of my 5.7 non-vvt (valve seat dropped core rebuild) + 238 6spd "extra cheap" swap and have found your thread very informative, especially your spreadsheet. Just two quick questions about your Ram swapped Getreg 238.

1)When you swapped the dakota shift tower out for the ram one, did you happen to look at Core Shifters? They have some nice and cheaper than OEM replacements that seem to work. Their Ram one replaces Mopar 05175991AA (Mopar stock for the 238 in the ram 1500s) and that seems to be what I'm looking for. I was able to find my 238 fairly easily as well, though used.

2)I have found information that the clutch from a '08 5.7 2500 truck will work, but no hard numbers on that, just a blurb online. What are your thoughts? Do you have any practical experience with that combo?

Love your work and as I progress in my build i will make a thread to help folks out as well.

Regards,
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post #46 of 66 Old 03-25-2019, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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Hey Rockystock,



I am in the parts gathering/rebuilding stage of my 5.7 non-vvt (valve seat dropped core rebuild) + 238 6spd "extra cheap" swap and have found your thread very informative, especially your spreadsheet. Just two quick questions about your Ram swapped Getreg 238.



1)When you swapped the dakota shift tower out for the ram one, did you happen to look at Core Shifters? They have some nice and cheaper than OEM replacements that seem to work. Their Ram one replaces Mopar 05175991AA (Mopar stock for the 238 in the ram 1500s) and that seems to be what I'm looking for. I was able to find my 238 fairly easily as well, though used.



2)I have found information that the clutch from a '08 5.7 2500 truck will work, but no hard numbers on that, just a blurb online. What are your thoughts? Do you have any practical experience with that combo?



Love your work and as I progress in my build i will make a thread to help folks out as well.



Regards,

Dan

Hi Dan,

Excellent, this thread is helping someone!!!!

I didn't use the Ram shift tower and didn't try it either. I also did not try the Core Shifters product either. Either the OEM Ram or CS towers may be worth a try to see if they'd fit but I don't know if they do.

EDIT: A guy by the name Saharacon on JK-Forum used the Core Shifters setup on his G238; his jeep was for sale as of 3/8/19. He posted some photos of the shift tower on the trans a few months ago.

Instead, I took the G238 Dakota shift stub out of the tower and sent it and the stock NSG370 tower to Cleveland Power & Performance so they could swap the top of the stock stub onto the lower part of the G238 stub. Here are some additional photos of the stub after modification:






I also don't know about the Ram 2500 clutch and/or flywheel, but I did also see a blurb:

http://fourwheeler.com/how-to/engine...get-hemi-swap/

If you try the Ram parts and they work, please let us all know out here. My parts are all made for Dakota but definitely would be switching to Ram if the Dak parts grenade before their time...

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post #47 of 66 Old 03-26-2019, 06:07 AM
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Thanks for those pics, Rocky! It appears to me that the Ram stick follows the same general lines as the Dakota/jeep modified shifter, so maybe I'll give the coreshifters one a try. They have some info on their site but it all involves taking measurements once the engine/tranny/transcase are all in place....then you order and wait another three weeks for the shifter....not the way I like to do it, but I'll see how receptive they are to some question/answer via email.

I dug a bit and came up with two AMS spec sheets, one for the 2500/hemi flywheel and one for the g238 Dakotas (both the 4.7 v8 and the 3.7 v6 use the same one, so that's good for used parts pickers like me). The only critical difference that I can see is the "crank bolt circle diameter" (3.151" for the hemi as opposed to 2.73" for the dakotas and "ring gear OD diameter" (14.59" for the hemi and 15.1" for the Dakotas). I don't have enough experience with custom fitting clutches (shade tree mechanic and i have never brought a vehicle to a shop but this will be my first engine/tranny swap) to know if these differences are a no-go! Like is there enough starter slop in the bolts to take up the .250" for the ring gear? Are those bolt holes circles close enough that it'll bolt? How comfortable am I with that much fudging? I just don't know!

Just checked the Ram 1500 with the g238 and its the exact same part number/flywheel as the dakotas.
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post #48 of 66 Old 03-26-2019, 06:19 AM
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Also sorry, I just realised that I am hijacking your thread....I just wanted to get this info out in the forum to try and help.
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post #49 of 66 Old 03-26-2019, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for those pics, Rocky! It appears to me that the Ram stick follows the same general lines as the Dakota/jeep modified shifter, so maybe I'll give the coreshifters one a try. They have some info on their site but it all involves taking measurements once the engine/tranny/transcase are all in place....then you order and wait another three weeks for the shifter....not the way I like to do it, but I'll see how receptive they are to some question/answer via email.

I dug a bit and came up with two AMS spec sheets, one for the 2500/hemi flywheel and one for the g238 Dakotas (both the 4.7 v8 and the 3.7 v6 use the same one, so that's good for used parts pickers like me). The only critical difference that I can see is the "crank bolt circle diameter" (3.151" for the hemi as opposed to 2.73" for the dakotas and "ring gear OD diameter" (14.59" for the hemi and 15.1" for the Dakotas). I don't have enough experience with custom fitting clutches (shade tree mechanic and i have never brought a vehicle to a shop but this will be my first engine/tranny swap) to know if these differences are a no-go! Like is there enough starter slop in the bolts to take up the .250" for the ring gear? Are those bolt holes circles close enough that it'll bolt? How comfortable am I with that much fudging? I just don't know!

Just checked the Ram 1500 with the g238 and its the exact same part number/flywheel as the dakotas.
Dan
I'm also a shade tree mechanic and almost never take my cars to a shop or dealer.

No big deal with fitting the engine/trans before measuring for a new shift tower, because you probably won't be able to install them with the shift tower mounted anyway...

The crank bolt circle numbers sound strange; I do know that the '05-'09 Dakota flywheel fits fine on the hemi crank. Just FWIW, flywheels with different bolt circles like you mentioned would not be interchangeable. You might be able to fit the different ring gears but you'd have trouble getting a starter motor to work.

Mopar never offered the G238 behind a hemi in production. The Ram 1500 with the same flywheel etc. as the Dakota was only for the 3.7 or 4.7 engines. The 2008 Ram 2500 only came with the 5.7 hemi; the manual trans. was the G56. From 2004-2006 I believe, the Ram 2500 used a variant of the NV4500 (which I believe was the vehicle that used the structural dust cover and dust shield that now works correctly for the hemi/G238). I could be off on the specific transmissions in the Rams - the available info is sparse.

Edit - Midwest Transmission has a nice vehicle selector that will show the available transmissions for a given vehicle. May help you find out which vehicles to hunt down for good used parts deals...

https://www.midwesttrans.com/webapp/catalog.jsp

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post #50 of 66 Old 04-25-2019, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
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Exhaust tips came in. Probably going to build a bumper but not right away.



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Last edited by rockystock; 05-19-2019 at 09:02 PM.
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