Leaking Radiator Saga.... - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
 4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 52 Old 01-27-2018, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Age: 41
Posts: 65
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews
Leaking Radiator Saga....

Hi guys,

Have a CSF all aluminum 2 row radiation to keep my L83 Chevy cool. That it does extremely well! However, I am dealing with a constant leak, and this is my second replacement. Seems they fail within 6 -8 months.
I know Mishimoto has the same exact failure at about the same rate, and I will tell you mine failed with the 3.8 as well, as I replaced the leaking stock with the upgrade, anticipating the engine swap. It leaked before the V8 ever made it in......
Specifically where the fins meet the tank sides.
I am thinking about adding some Bars Leak stop product, but bypassing the heater core, to keep it from getting clogged.

What is you alls take?

Iím about to order a mid range plastic tank stock radiator so see if it can cool as well as the 2 row. Im super suspicious of the bar product......
Mjp83 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 52 Old 01-27-2018, 07:30 AM
Rock God
 
Dkjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 39
Posts: 1,017
Feedback: 0 reviews

Dont put any snake oil into that radiator. That stuff is for all out emergency purposes only unless you just enjoy dealing with collateral issues.

As you said they ALL have issues. It does seem as though the radiators from rpm extreme or motech have the least failures though. But even those have had a few issues that I believe have been corrected.
Dkjeep is offline  
post #3 of 52 Old 01-27-2018, 08:35 AM
JKowners Vendor
 
0lllllll0 RPMEXTREME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Age: 42
Posts: 678
Feedback: 2 reviews

We have seen some leaks develop in our radiators as well. Pretty much exactly as described in the OP.

From the data gathered we have determined the radiator is twisting and flexing and over time this will crack the welds.

The lower part of the radiator is sitting in rubber pads and is free to move around. The upper mounts however are mounted to the core support and don't offer much flex if any. As the core support moves and flexes (it does a lot BTW) all that force is applied to the radiator and over time will fail.

We have been thru several redesigns on our radiators and have made them as strong as possible but with enough flexing the thin aluminum tube will give up.

Our solution is to redesign the JK upper radiator mount and come up with something that will hold the radiator into position but also allow the core support to flex and not transmit the force into the radiator.

In the mean time you can remove the metal insert inside of the stock JK rubber isolator and replace the bolt with a shouldered bolt that will tighten down secure but will bottom out before pulling the rubber tight.




Basically you want the radiator held in place but not locked to the core support.
Alan Woodard likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
your offroad connection to the best southern off road Jeep parts in Alabama
0lllllll0 RPMEXTREME is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 52 Old 01-27-2018, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Age: 41
Posts: 65
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews

Thank you RPM Extreme for the reply. I figured thatís what was going on, as Mishimoto also pointed at the Jeep flexing, as there are so many failures a cross our JK.

Thanks for the info on the bolt, I will remove the metal sleeve and hope this helps, with the new replacement.
Mjp83 is offline  
post #5 of 52 Old 01-27-2018, 12:15 PM
Rock God
 
Dkjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 39
Posts: 1,017
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mjp83 View Post
Thank you RPM Extreme for the reply. I figured thatís what was going on, as Mishimoto also pointed at the Jeep flexing, as there are so many failures a cross our JK.

Thanks for the info on the bolt, I will remove the metal sleeve and hope this helps, with the new replacement.
You're welcome too.
Dkjeep is offline  
post #6 of 52 Old 01-28-2018, 04:46 AM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Age: 41
Posts: 65
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dkjeep View Post
You're welcome too.
Thanks, sorry, read your post and appreciate your reply as well!
Dkjeep likes this.
Mjp83 is offline  
post #7 of 52 Old 02-10-2018, 01:01 AM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Age: 41
Posts: 65
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews
Update!

Crushed two barís tablets into cool radiator opening. It quit leaking within 30 minutes driving. Just came back from a 700 mile ski trip, up our tallest mound in NC, and canít say it has affected my heater core at all. Had great heat and engine stayed at 215 and below as I was going up some steep grades, enjoying the V8.
But again, I used only two of the 8 tablets, and did not use any of the metal flake liquid sealant. I think those are bad news for motors and heater cores.
scubatech likes this.
Mjp83 is offline  
post #8 of 52 Old 02-11-2018, 04:51 PM
Rock God
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
Age: 46
Posts: 1,257
Feedback: 6 reviews

I agree with RPM about the flex and all that. But I also agree that most companies are not making their own radiator and basically getting components from China and slapping their names on them as their own. Super thin metal and iffy quality overall. Check out these people. Spent some time speaking with one their designers. Great people. If I have to but andother radiator, I am going with these.
https://www.crracing.com

In the mean time in the interest of covering all bases (in addition to flex) I grounded my radiator and got a cap with a sacrificial anode. We will see.
da20captain is offline  
post #9 of 52 Old 02-12-2018, 07:04 AM
JKO Addict!
 
ALASHA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 8,179
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by da20captain View Post
I agree with RPM about the flex and all that. But I also agree that most companies are not making their own radiator and basically getting components from China and slapping their names on them as their own. Super thin metal and iffy quality overall. Check out these people. Spent some time speaking with one their designers. Great people. If I have to but andother radiator, I am going with these.
https://www.crracing.com

In the mean time in the interest of covering all bases (in addition to flex) I grounded my radiator and got a cap with a sacrificial anode. We will see.
C&R has a great rep. Im still up in the air between them and Ron Davis.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ALASHA is offline  
post #10 of 52 Old 02-12-2018, 06:07 PM
Granite Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: KC, MO
Age: 41
Posts: 107
Feedback: 1 reviews

I'm on my third CSF and it's leaking too. MoTech installed the first one when they did my swap and warrantied two replacements. I'm sure if I contacted Robbie, he would work with me. However, if I change my radiator again, I'm just going to bite the bullet and get the C&R. For now, I'm just going to deal with my small leak. It's hard for me to part with the cash for the C&R--it's pricey!
rgeorge33 is offline  
post #11 of 52 Old 02-14-2018, 12:08 PM
Granite Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Youngstown,Ohio
Age: 40
Posts: 485
Feedback: 0 reviews

I'm on my second csf and it is also leaking where the fins meet the end tanks. After talking to Robbie, he said to install a 16psi cap and put 2 tabs in the radiator as well. I did that and it slowed the leak down but it is still there. I hate that that is the only fluid leak that my jeep has... I think I will remove the metal spacers from the rubber bushings as well and see if that helps at all. I only have 6k miles on the jeep since my swap and really want to get this figured out.

08 JKU 6.0 LC8 6L80 Atlas 2 39" KM3's on Trilogy race beadlocks, prorock 44,rcv's arb front. rock jock 60 rear 40spline shafts,arb 5.13's and a bunch of other stuff
89yjon is offline  
post #12 of 52 Old 02-15-2018, 09:02 PM
Wheeler
 
MeanGreenJKU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Age: 35
Posts: 67
Feedback: 0 reviews

I have been fighting the very same problem for 2years with my 6.0 LS. Robbie has replaced 3 radiators for me because of that very problem. Guess I will try the 2tabs and see what happens this time.
MeanGreenJKU is offline  
post #13 of 52 Old 02-17-2018, 03:35 PM
JKowners Vendor
 
MoTech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,249
Feedback: 2 reviews

Aluminum radiators can be hard to seal in a JK. Over the last decade we have used Griffin, CSF, CBR, Northen and others.

Weakest point is where the tube meets the header. That joint is brazed and susceptible to flexing as noted. CBR has taken a new approach and is using extruded tubes to help minimize the problem but we have only installed one so far.

Another misunderstood issue is electrolysis. If a charge is built up in the cooling system it can cause erosion of the metals. This charge seems to affect the weak tube/header joint by making the braze porous. The result is your radiator sweats more than leaks and drips out the bottom but it is difficult to see where the leak is coming from. Measure the charge in your coolant, with the engine running and everything on you want to see less than 1V. We have seen 3+ volts which accelerates leaks and causes corrosion. Bad grounds, starter, alternator... can cause electrolysis.

We now strap our radiators and weld the corners and seams to help with the flex. This is still no guarantee though.

Run a good quality cap like a Stant. Run about 16 psi, 18-20 psi caps too much pressure on the system. Cheap caps do not hold the rated pressure, they are usually low or high.

Griffin not only vacumn brazes but epoxies the headers. Again this is no guarantee but does seen to help.

Using a conditioning tablet like GM or Bardahl's sell can help coat the joints that are susceptible to flexing and electrolysis by coating them. My conversation with Fluidyne a while back indicated Chrysler was aware of the electrolysis issue in JK's and were addressing it in the JL.

It's somewhat hit or miss, I can warranty 3 radiators to one customer over 5 years then have another customer with a radiator from the same batch go 5 years without leaking a drop.

MoTech
725-502-8507

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MoTech is offline  
post #14 of 52 Old 02-18-2018, 07:05 AM
Rock God
 
4wheels4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Newton, Ks.
Age: 55
Posts: 504
Feedback: 1 reviews

I am on my third radiator in just over 2 years. Last radiator has been in for over a year and it did have a very slight seep so I put in some of the GM radiator tablets and I have not seen any leaks as of now. Only thing I have is the constant smell of antifreeze after it gets to operating temp with no visible leaks and I think the fluid moves into the overflow to easily. I have been running a radiator cap from O'Reillys (Murray)warrantied once and have just switched to an AC/Delco cap. I can say it did fit tighter, even though they looked to be the same height. We will see if that takes care of the smell and fluid transfer.

In regards to checking the voltage of the coolant, electrolysis. Are you just literally inserting the positive probe into the coolant and grounding the negative probe?

2007 JKU X, 6.0 ls and 6L80e with a diy kit from RpmExtreme, 4.10, 4" ProComp Stage 1 lift, AEV drop brackets, 325/65R18 Nitto Terra Grapplers, Eagle Offroad Alloys 18"x10"
4wheels4life is offline  
post #15 of 52 Old 02-18-2018, 08:00 AM
Rock God
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 661
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4wheels4life View Post
I am on my third radiator in just over 2 years. Last radiator has been in for over a year and it did have a very slight seep so I put in some of the GM radiator tablets and I have not seen any leaks as of now. Only thing I have is the constant smell of antifreeze after it gets to operating temp with no visible leaks and I think the fluid moves into the overflow to easily. I have been running a radiator cap from O'Reillys (Murray)warrantied once and have just switched to an AC/Delco cap. I can say it did fit tighter, even though they looked to be the same height. We will see if that takes care of the smell and fluid transfer.

In regards to checking the voltage of the coolant, electrolysis. Are you just literally inserting the positive probe into the coolant and grounding the negative probe?
Yes you are correct , just the tip of the probe in the coolant , but move the ground from the body ground to the negative post to see if there is a difference , this will alert you to weak grounds .
Robbie @MoTech is correct , there are a lot of things that can cause this condition , starter , alternator , weak or broken grounds ect.
But once you solve this change the coolant , it's toast . When it is exposed to more than one Mv it will become corrosive .

@JohnPShoe knows a shit ton about many of these variables in the JK systems , way more than I do for certain , maybe he will chime in .

Last edited by un lupus; 02-18-2018 at 08:04 AM.
un lupus is offline  
post #16 of 52 Old 02-18-2018, 10:09 AM
JKowners Vendor
 
MoTech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,249
Feedback: 2 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4wheels4life View Post
I am on my third radiator in just over 2 years. Last radiator has been in for over a year and it did have a very slight seep so I put in some of the GM radiator tablets and I have not seen any leaks as of now. Only thing I have is the constant smell of antifreeze after it gets to operating temp with no visible leaks and I think the fluid moves into the overflow to easily. I have been running a radiator cap from O'Reillys (Murray)warrantied once and have just switched to an AC/Delco cap. I can say it did fit tighter, even though they looked to be the same height. We will see if that takes care of the smell and fluid transfer.

In regards to checking the voltage of the coolant, electrolysis. Are you just literally inserting the positive probe into the coolant and grounding the negative probe?
This is common when running cheap caps - Duralast, Murray.... Running tablets is a good start. Use a Stant or Delco 16psi cap. Cheap radiator caps do not hold rated pressure and if they do not for long.

If the cap is weak coolant will push into the coolant bottle and you will smell the overflow. When the level gets too low you may suck in air when the system cools; then an air bubble can form and you overheat.

The radiator cap is cheap but critical so get a good one.

If you have excessive voltage in the coolant you will continue to leak. Check grounds at the battery, chassis, body, engine, transmission... Run all the accessories when checking to load the system. You should have redundant grounds on engine performance and a good block ground.

Grounding the radiator or adding sacrificial annodes can help but they are addressing symptoms not the cause.

MoTech
725-502-8507

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MoTech is offline  
post #17 of 52 Old 02-18-2018, 02:47 PM
Rock God
 
4wheels4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Newton, Ks.
Age: 55
Posts: 504
Feedback: 1 reviews

Thanks for the replies. I just want to check the voltage and see, if present I want to get ahead of it before it does actual damage. We will see now if the AC/Delco cap makes the difference on the smell.

2007 JKU X, 6.0 ls and 6L80e with a diy kit from RpmExtreme, 4.10, 4" ProComp Stage 1 lift, AEV drop brackets, 325/65R18 Nitto Terra Grapplers, Eagle Offroad Alloys 18"x10"
4wheels4life is offline  
post #18 of 52 Old 03-20-2018, 07:55 PM
Rock God
 
4wheels4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Newton, Ks.
Age: 55
Posts: 504
Feedback: 1 reviews

Well. Figured I update to my last post about the antifreeze smell I was having and hoping the radiator cap would cure the problem. That is a BIG Negatory! I have radiator leakage, so chalk me up on the list. This was a replacement for the leaking original and now this one is leaking. Anybody coming up with a fix? Wonder if I can get this one replaced under warranty. Time for some phone calls

2007 JKU X, 6.0 ls and 6L80e with a diy kit from RpmExtreme, 4.10, 4" ProComp Stage 1 lift, AEV drop brackets, 325/65R18 Nitto Terra Grapplers, Eagle Offroad Alloys 18"x10"
4wheels4life is offline  
post #19 of 52 Old 03-20-2018, 10:59 PM
DJ1
Rock God
 
DJ1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Corellia
Posts: 915
Feedback: 0 reviews

We just got our oem radiator replaced. 2012 JK with 96k miles but thankfully we have a 100k warranty otherwise the stealership said it would have been ~$1295 for parts/labor.

May have to do the shoulder bolt swap for the new one...




.
DJ1 is offline  
post #20 of 52 Old 03-21-2018, 10:05 AM
Granite Guru
 
Rb6700's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 265
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ1 View Post
We just got our oem radiator replaced. 2012 JK with 96k miles but thankfully we have a 100k warranty otherwise the stealership said it would have been ~$1295 for parts/labor.

May have to do the shoulder bolt swap for the new one...




.
Is that one gold plated?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
Rb6700 is offline  
post #21 of 52 Old 03-21-2018, 10:11 AM
DJ1
Rock God
 
DJ1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Corellia
Posts: 915
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rb6700 View Post
Is that one gold plated?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Yeah before I pulled the warranty papers out, they were telling me 3-4 hours of labor @ $195/hr, ~$95 for 2 hoses, the rest for radiator itself + coolant.

I started laughing and told them do whatever they want because it's only $100 out of my pocket to cover the deductible...
DJ1 is offline  
post #22 of 52 Old 04-06-2018, 07:43 PM
Granite Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: KC, MO
Age: 41
Posts: 107
Feedback: 1 reviews

Over the past few days my 3rd CSF radiator has gone from a very small leak, to much more significant. I reached out to C&R Racing to ask about their warranty and the radiator. This is part of the response I received:

"Our warranty is 1 year from date of purchase.

The core we use has extruded cooling tubes, unlike all the others on the market.
Our core is considerably stronger because of this. We also utilize corner sub headers, which strengthen the cooling tube and header flange connection.

One thing I will say is, Jeepís in general are very hard on radiators. Based on design and construction they put an abnormal amount of torsional twisting on the core support / radiator.
Many manufacturers find it difficult to get their radiators to live very long in Jeepís."

I ended up calling to follow-up and order one. He indicated that they've been building their current design for 3 years and they haven't had issues with these leaking, despite the stresses associated with the JK and its flexible core support. So, they'll be shipping me the radiator on Monday. I'll get around to the install next weekend. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
rgeorge33 is offline  
post #23 of 52 Old 04-07-2018, 06:32 AM
Rock God
 
4wheels4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Newton, Ks.
Age: 55
Posts: 504
Feedback: 1 reviews

After reading the responses from other manufactures and talking to the builder that RPMExtreme uses they are all in the same boat of trying to keep there radiators from the stresses they go thru.

I just received my new radiator and it looks solid, plus it is the 52mm up from the original 48mm that I had originally installed. One thing stated was they are trying to strengthen the cores up but you can only go so far before they become to rigid, then they just crack because from lack of ability to flex at all.

I can not remember now all the numbers but he did state that the materials used where all thicker than the standard assemblies. Headers, tubes, fin's and tanks all using the thicker metals. Plus strengthening of the corner areas.

I was hoping to install it this weekend but a spring freeze and ice showed up Sat. So first part of next week we will see how it goes. Hopefully this is the fix.

I am not adding any more of the tablets to this one, as I did not drain the system and do not want to over do it with additives.

2007 JKU X, 6.0 ls and 6L80e with a diy kit from RpmExtreme, 4.10, 4" ProComp Stage 1 lift, AEV drop brackets, 325/65R18 Nitto Terra Grapplers, Eagle Offroad Alloys 18"x10"
4wheels4life is offline  
post #24 of 52 Old 04-07-2018, 12:09 PM
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 72
Feedback: 0 reviews

I’m curious if rather than trying to make a physically stronger radiator it would make sense to develop a different mounting system all together?
Jeremi is offline  
post #25 of 52 Old 04-07-2018, 03:06 PM
Granite Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Brisbane Australia
Age: 53
Posts: 359
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
I’m curious if rather than trying to make a physically stronger radiator it would make sense to develop a different mounting system all together?
That's what I ended up doing. The big arsed unit I had made weighed a bomb and slowly ripped the lower mounts off.
I now run a C type channel where the radiator sits in it and the upper mount's only job is to locate, not carry any weight.
I'll get some pics up soon.




Last edited by Rodjk; 04-07-2018 at 03:20 PM.
Rodjk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome