BAD Experience with 505 Performance 4.1 stroker motor - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 64 Old 12-01-2017, 04:07 AM Thread Starter
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BAD Experience with 505 Performance 4.1 stroker motor

Do your homework and feel free to contact me if you have any chance of using this company and their crate 4.1 stroker motor in place of the 3.8. Its been a nightmare for me. 6 weeks in and I still trying to build the motor they sent so i can drive my 2008 JKUR. My Dyno shop refuses to run it fully for fear it will blow up on his machine. It started with timing cover installed with wrong gasket blocking port to feed drivers side. They sent second timing cover and again sent the wrong gasket. Then throwing codes about crank and cam position. Found timing gear set installed 1 tooth off. Then had lifters rattling and some not holding pressure, replaced all lifters and found 5 exhaust valves of one type and size and a 6th of different design and size. 7 weeks into it and still cant drive jeep. The tuners was concerned about all the knocking. The top end was so poorly put together I question how the bottom end was assembled. Still trying to work through getting this motor running. They said they would send another new motor within ten business days but after 15 business days they said still waiting on parts. Trying to wait me out. I have claim with BBB and starting litigation. Just hope to save other people the heartache and cost of dealing with 505 Performance. I have 48 pages of emails about each problem and 1.5 gigs of pictures and video identifying the build quality.
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post #2 of 64 Old 12-01-2017, 09:42 AM
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This is dirty laundry, not tech. Sorry to hear you got fucked but, you'll probably never be back again to update how it worked out, so thanks for the turd.
coilrod and un lupus like this.

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post #3 of 64 Old 12-01-2017, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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Save your money

This is how much he cares about your $6000 investment.

Blames wrong gasket installed on timing cover because supplier sent wrong one. He did it twice, once when he built motor and next when he sent me a 2nd oil pump.https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApIc0fIv6h-DgclzglS955vlW6wrFA. https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApIc0fIv6h-DgclymMtdAK-Ov06B8w

He questioned why I would remove the timing cover and play with the timing gear set because his guys would never install it wrong. NOT https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApIc0fIv6h-DgcoiVpdvY865u-ZaWQ

Had 3 bad lifters so he told me not his problem and that i needed to contact his supplier. When i removed the heads to replace all the lifters i found 2 different exhaust valves of different shapes and sizes.
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post #4 of 64 Old 12-01-2017, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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More info

Motor lying on a pallet.

https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApIc0fIv6h-Dgc9Cqxc723s2ltFX8g Exhaust left side different then the other 5

Different size and shape.
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post #5 of 64 Old 12-01-2017, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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post #6 of 64 Old 12-01-2017, 04:35 PM
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Was this a long block or crate motor?
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post #7 of 64 Old 12-01-2017, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snout View Post
Was this a long block or crate motor?
Crate with torque cam

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post #8 of 64 Old 12-01-2017, 06:17 PM
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Did you do any research on 505 before you wrote the cheque?
There is at least 1 on JKO about how much they suck.

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Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
Running 37's as a daily driver is dumb
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post #9 of 64 Old 12-01-2017, 07:16 PM
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There was a guy a couple.of years ago that went through hell with them. I think his main issue was tuning.

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post #10 of 64 Old 12-01-2017, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radwelder View Post
...
He questioned why I would remove the timing cover and play with the timing gear set because his guys would never install it wrong. NOT https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApIc0fIv6h-DgcoiVpdvY865u-ZaWQ
...


ok.
I am not approving about OP misposting in wrong subject - mostly because this belongs in dirty laundry; "engine swap" is for LS swaps ,not engine mods to an OEM powerplant- but that is a technicality & is easy to miss ...
Besides, this is pretty crappy if people that assemble and modify engines for their primary business they are charging customers for and yet, they cannot catch a timing TDC when trying to get customers to rave about the awesomeness of the work they do but instead not install a timing belt properly ?
wtf?
Gotta admit; that would get me posting in public.

I dislike speaking about anyone when they aren't around to defend themselves but thi is not the first bad feedback about this company on this forum. There is stuff going back 3 years at least . Plus, the OP isn't really having it stroked . He is having it re-stroked; the 3.8l V6 is a longer stroke version of the Chrysler 3.3L v6 from early 90's . So, the housing thickness just isn't there . regardless, I'd drive this back on a truck right to the proprietors door if it were me.



<edit: historical link added : possible pertinence to subject>


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post #11 of 64 Old 12-02-2017, 02:58 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coilrod View Post
Did you do any research on 505 before you wrote the cheque?
There is at least 1 on JKO about how much they suck.
Yes I did research and all problems found were people with tuning issues and blowing out lower end as they added super chargers or turbos. My problems are 100% workmanship.
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post #12 of 64 Old 12-02-2017, 03:41 AM Thread Starter
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I thought this could be an option to those looking for more power without V8 price tag. Dyno so far with still having valve problems (unknown at the time) are good lower in rpm. I just caution using 505 to build the motor.


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post #13 of 64 Old 12-03-2017, 04:44 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j3ff3ry_j33p View Post

ok.
I am not approving about OP misposting in wrong subject - mostly because this belongs in dirty laundry; "engine swap" is for LS swaps ,not engine mods to an OEM powerplant- but that is a technicality & is easy to miss ...
Besides, this is pretty crappy if people that assemble and modify engines for their primary business they are charging customers for and yet, they cannot catch a timing TDC when trying to get customers to rave about the awesomeness of the work they do but instead not install a timing belt properly ?
wtf?
Gotta admit; that would get me posting in public.

I dislike speaking about anyone when they aren't around to defend themselves but thi is not the first bad feedback about this company on this forum. There is stuff going back 3 years at least . Plus, the OP isn't really having it stroked . He is having it re-stroked; the 3.8l V6 is a longer stroke version of the Chrysler 3.3L v6 from early 90's . So, the housing thickness just isn't there . regardless, I'd drive this back on a truck right to the proprietors door if it were me.



<edit: historical link added : possible pertinence to subject>
I believe the 3.8 to 4.1 is a alternative motor swap if you cant make the cost of a LS or a Hemi. $100 per HP is not bad if your trying to get a little more power out of the weak 3.8. Time will tell for me and Im committed to keeping this motor but build it yourself or someone you trust. Just FYI on 505 Performance, I did research and even talked to owner but never would have thought wrong gaskets and different valves would be the issue. Thank you for allowing the post.
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post #14 of 64 Old 12-03-2017, 04:46 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radwelder View Post
This is how much he cares about your $6000 investment.

Blames wrong gasket installed on timing cover because supplier sent wrong one. He did it twice, once when he built motor and next when he sent me a 2nd oil pump.https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApIc0fIv6h-DgclzglS955vlW6wrFA. https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApIc0fIv6h-DgclymMtdAK-Ov06B8w

He questioned why I would remove the timing cover and play with the timing gear set because his guys would never install it wrong. NOT https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApIc0fIv6h-DgcoiVpdvY865u-ZaWQ

Had 3 bad lifters so he told me not his problem and that i needed to contact his supplier. When i removed the heads to replace all the lifters i found 2 different exhaust valves of different shapes and sizes.
Looks like some links didn't work.
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post #15 of 64 Old 12-03-2017, 09:52 AM
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I stand corrected. Glad you stuck around.

No way they didn't know they were sticking that oddball exh. valve in.

How did they go about increasing the displacement? Bigger bore or longer stroke?

Kevin
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post #16 of 64 Old 12-03-2017, 06:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gt1guy View Post
I stand corrected. Glad you stuck around.

No way they didn't know they were sticking that oddball exh. valve in.

How did they go about increasing the displacement? Bigger bore or longer stroke?
1/4" Longer stroke crank, roller rockers, H rods, polish ports, larger valves and torque cam. At least what I thought I was paying for.

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post #17 of 64 Old 12-03-2017, 08:11 PM
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It's absolutely killing me to know wtf they thought when that valve was laid out with the others at assembly. That can't be an oversight unless you are blind or drunk. The rockers are sweet but that's inexcusable.
Did you ask them about it? I guess they answered, " why would you disassemble the top end when we know what we're doing?!"

talk about putting a nail in your business reputation coffin.


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post #18 of 64 Old 12-04-2017, 02:58 AM Thread Starter
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I have dropped the heads off at a local machine shop for inspection and a written assessment then I will include that letter in my response to 505. I am looking into litigation but so far it appears that I would win a piece of paper. The companies assets are very little and receiving a judgement that never would be paid is why Iím having to finish building this motor myself.


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post #19 of 64 Old 12-05-2017, 12:54 PM
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this sucks bad and I'm sorry for you.
to throw salt in your wound,
I can swap a hemi into a JK for about $8k
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post #20 of 64 Old 12-06-2017, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elusive View Post
this sucks bad and I'm sorry for you.
to throw salt in your wound,
I can swap a hemi into a JK for about $8k
Send me a PM and lets talk. Local in Jax is $20k turnkey.
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post #21 of 64 Old 12-06-2017, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
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Still sitting dead in the driveway. The exhaust valve has no stamping on it to indentify manf. Cross referencing 8 different manf. with no luck. Because of the legal dealings trying to get a refund I can not contact them.
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post #22 of 64 Old 12-06-2017, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elusive View Post
this sucks bad and I'm sorry for you.
to throw salt in your wound,
I can swap a hemi into a JK for about $8k
This is true?
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post #23 of 64 Old 12-06-2017, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radwelder View Post
Send me a PM and lets talk. Local in Jax is $20k turnkey.
See post 1.

https://www.jkowners.com/forum/modifi...readsheet.html
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post #24 of 64 Old 12-16-2017, 07:09 AM Thread Starter
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Running then NOT

Had to buy the valve from 505 under a fake name and assembled the motor. Top end sounded great but now you could hear bottom end. Rattled like a deisel.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!ApIc0fIv6h-DgdB8gmY5PxMZzBdk3A

I sent the link to a couple people that have been great at helping with this and both side connecting rod noise and since we know 505 cut corners on valves maybe he did the same thing on the bottom. Suggestion was to plasti gauge the connecting rods. Found the gap to be way out of spec. Spec is .0007-.0026 plasti gauge had all at .003 or more! For a new rebuilt motor using stock size bearing that again tells me workmanship is the culprit. Then look at the journals! They are pitted beyond reason. Both of these factors could explain why oil pressure so inconsistent. So pulling the motor out. Taking crank and rods to local shop to see if they can be turned and add larger bearings.
https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApIc0fIv6h-DgdBbq3792vviaCEqBQ

https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApIc0fIv6h-DgdB2SDIZBj9SC-azkA


https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApIc0fIv6h-DgdEeaYhk-BiHxN0Bnw

https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApIc0fIv6h-DgdEPUFphkJNF1QKuMA
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post #25 of 64 Old 12-16-2017, 07:34 AM Thread Starter
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Why?

So many of my friends ask why not just dispute charge through bank and give him back the motor? I would loose the additional $5,000 I have into it this far.

Sue him they say!
Iíve had his company investigated and he has nothing to win, heís obviously been down this road before. I definitely would win and have a judgement to prove it which is fine but no cash back in my pocket. I have to get this jeep on the road and the point to all of his is more power. I am confident once built correctly I will gain at least 100 HP at 3000 rpms. The concept of a stroker is good itís the execution of 505 Performance thatís the problem.
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