LS Swap without a Kit?? - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
 5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 47 Old 09-22-2017, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
JKO Addict!
 
ALASHA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 8,179
Feedback: 0 reviews
LS Swap without a Kit??

Things seem to be a little quiet around here so I figure perfect time to ask a stupid question.

What functionality do you lose if you do an LS swap without using a kit? I understand that the dash is worthless but what about everything else: radio, HVAC, power everything etc...?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ALASHA is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 47 Old 09-22-2017, 01:18 PM
Rock God
 
Rubi-8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Reno, NV
Age: 42
Posts: 638
Feedback: 1 reviews

Not just the dash but all the idiot systems. Cooling, alternator charging, and A/C run through the TIPM. For emissions you must be able to show the OBDII system is fully functional and no check engine lights on the dash.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


07 JK-8
08 2dr Sahara
17 Gobi Recon
Rubi-8 is offline  
post #3 of 47 Old 09-22-2017, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
JKO Addict!
 
ALASHA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 8,179
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi-8 View Post
Not just the dash but all the idiot systems. Cooling, alternator charging, and A/C run through the TIPM. For emissions you must be able to show the OBDII system is fully functional and no check engine lights on the dash.
cooling and alternator can be run stand alone. Think the drive train of a buggy but wrapped in a JK. Question is can the A/C controls still be used?
ChuckTheRipper likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ALASHA is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 47 Old 09-22-2017, 03:11 PM
Rock God
 
Rubi-8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Reno, NV
Age: 42
Posts: 638
Feedback: 1 reviews

That's a good question for Robbie...I think the TIPM controls it. Are you not wanting Emissions?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


07 JK-8
08 2dr Sahara
17 Gobi Recon
Rubi-8 is offline  
post #5 of 47 Old 09-23-2017, 11:27 AM
Rock God
 
Dkjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 39
Posts: 1,017
Feedback: 0 reviews

EVERYTHING is run through the can. I have thought about this myself being on the other side of the swap now. Not knowing when I got started... what I would do NOW if I had it to do over again and now realizing where all of the supplemental components come from is literally just buy the individual parts from various vendors. Now you will have to break down and buy somebody's can box to make everything happy. The one from RPM extreme "seems" very simple. Its the work that went into developing it that was hard I suppose. I haven't cracked it open but it cant hold anything much larger that a raspberry pi and a breakout board. Other than that and the harness literally everything else can be bought from other vendors or fabbed. Those 2 items are literally "the swap"
Dkjeep is offline  
post #6 of 47 Old 09-23-2017, 12:19 PM
JKO Addict!
 
gt1guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New Iberia, La.
Posts: 3,745
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dkjeep View Post
EVERYTHING is run through the can. I have thought about this myself being on the other side of the swap now. Not knowing when I got started... what I would do NOW if I had it to do over again and now realizing where all of the supplemental components come from is literally just buy the individual parts from various vendors. Now you will have to break down and buy somebody's can box to make everything happy. The one from RPM extreme "seems" very simple. Its the work that went into developing it that was hard I suppose. I haven't cracked it open but it cant hold anything much larger that a raspberry pi and a breakout board. Other than that and the harness literally everything else can be bought from other vendors or fabbed. Those 2 items are literally "the swap"
^^^^^This right here^^^^^

From what I understand there's two choices. You either keep everything talking together through the CAN......or......you standalone the engine and remove all the wiring and wire it up like a hotrod.

When you try to split the difference is where you'll run into problems.

Ribi-8 asked the million dollar question. Emissions? Do you have to deal with that can of worms?

Kevin
gt1guy is offline  
post #7 of 47 Old 09-25-2017, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
JKO Addict!
 
ALASHA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 8,179
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi-8 View Post
That's a good question for Robbie...I think the TIPM controls it. Are you not wanting Emissions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gt1guy View Post
Ribi-8 asked the million dollar question. Emissions? Do you have to deal with that can of worms?
I just moved to Denver so I technically need emissions but there are ways around it worst case.

I can live without integration as long as all the creature comforts still work but you guys say Ill lose HVAC, power everything etc... if I try to have 2 stand alone systems.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ALASHA is offline  
post #8 of 47 Old 09-25-2017, 04:56 PM
JKO Addict!
 
gt1guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New Iberia, La.
Posts: 3,745
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALASHA View Post
I just moved to Denver so I technically need emissions but there are ways around it worst case.

I can live without integration as long as all the creature comforts still work but you guys say Ill lose HVAC, power everything etc... if I try to have 2 stand alone systems.
I think the only way to get a proper cut and dry answer is to have Jon @0lllllll0 RPMEXTREME or Robbie @MoTech chime in with their knowledge of exactly how things work.

Kevin
gt1guy is offline  
post #9 of 47 Old 09-26-2017, 05:14 PM
JKowners Vendor
 
0lllllll0 RPMEXTREME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Age: 42
Posts: 678
Feedback: 2 reviews

It can be done and you can eventually get most everything to work. But it will cost you more time and money than just purchasing a kit and doing it correct from the get go. Most guys that may know the work arounds for some of the basic systems don't like to broadcast it to everyone.

Making the GM side run standalone it easy bringing the Jeep side into the equation is the hard part. Everything is pretty much CANbus, heck even the ignition switch is CAN bus so you would have to find a work around for that too.

And there is a lot more than a raspberry Pi inside our EZcan modules.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
your offroad connection to the best southern off road Jeep parts in Alabama
0lllllll0 RPMEXTREME is offline  
post #10 of 47 Old 09-26-2017, 05:21 PM
JKowners Vendor
 
0lllllll0 RPMEXTREME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Age: 42
Posts: 678
Feedback: 2 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dkjeep View Post
EVERYTHING is run through the can. I have thought about this myself being on the other side of the swap now. Not knowing when I got started... what I would do NOW if I had it to do over again and now realizing where all of the supplemental components come from is literally just buy the individual parts from various vendors. Now you will have to break down and buy somebody's can box to make everything happy. The one from RPM extreme "seems" very simple. Its the work that went into developing it that was hard I suppose. I haven't cracked it open but it cant hold anything much larger that a raspberry pi and a breakout board. Other than that and the harness literally everything else can be bought from other vendors or fabbed. Those 2 items are literally "the swap"
Some of the smaller items are available and can be sourced. The main ticket items in the "KIT" are the Harness and CAN module. These 2 items are integrated together and made to work with all the wires in the correct spots. Just going back and installing a generic "CAN" module to a standalone harness won't get you much of anything.

The reason people buy a "KIT" is they want everything in the box ready to go with good instructions.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
your offroad connection to the best southern off road Jeep parts in Alabama
0lllllll0 RPMEXTREME is offline  
post #11 of 47 Old 12-09-2017, 09:30 PM
V8 dreams
 
jvandy50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: jonesboro, ar
Posts: 3,533
Feedback: 0 reviews

Have you guys seen anyone but Kowboy remove all the wiring? Curious how much a PITA this is


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2010 Silver JKU
jvandy50 is offline  
post #12 of 47 Old 12-11-2017, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
JKO Addict!
 
ALASHA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 8,179
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by jvandy50 View Post
Have you guys seen anyone but Kowboy remove all the wiring? Curious how much a PITA this is
I heard through the grape vine it is a major PITA


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ALASHA is offline  
post #13 of 47 Old 12-11-2017, 02:44 PM
Rock God
 
ChuckTheRipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Chester, WV
Age: 26
Posts: 914
Feedback: 0 reviews

This is a question I've been wondering myself. I'm cool with everything being stand alone/hot rod style. The only thing I would like to keep is the HVAC system. I've also been wondering about (gen 3?) swap, aka the early 2000s ls engines.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ChuckTheRipper is offline  
post #14 of 47 Old 12-11-2017, 07:46 PM
V8 dreams
 
jvandy50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: jonesboro, ar
Posts: 3,533
Feedback: 0 reviews

the HVAC was the biggie for me too. I was trying to explain to my dad why it was so expensive and why ya canít just plop another engine in and have everything be happy...but my knowledge was not good enough lol.

I have no doubt with his abilities, weíd end up with a sweet ass, functioning V8 jeep...but is it worth the hassle?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2010 Silver JKU
jvandy50 is offline  
post #15 of 47 Old 12-13-2017, 10:02 AM
JKO Addict!
 
gt1guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New Iberia, La.
Posts: 3,745
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews

I'm eagerly waiting to see how Kowboy's turns out. He's going about it the right way, as far as the new dash and individual gauges goes. It will interesting to find out how the stock HVAC works. The dash controls are mechanical cables but, there's still a few wires that go into the unit (not the wires for the blower) and I was never sure what they did.

I figured he would have gone with a Vintage Air system, maybe there's just no reason to. Unless you run into packaging problems with cage-work or something like that. Those VA units are pretty compact. Point is, you don't have to keep the stock HVAC system at all if you don't want to.

Chuck,
If you're going stand alone, you'd be able to run any engine/trans combo you want.

Kevin
gt1guy is offline  
post #16 of 47 Old 12-13-2017, 11:20 AM
Granite Guru
 
Mhare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Fort Gibson, Ok
Age: 37
Posts: 333
Feedback: 1 reviews

Is this a solution to the stand alone drive train with stock A/C dilemma?

RpmExtreme GM E38 A/C Request Module :: RPM Extreme
Mhare is offline  
post #17 of 47 Old 12-13-2017, 12:45 PM
Rock God
 
ChuckTheRipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Chester, WV
Age: 26
Posts: 914
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by gt1guy View Post
I'm eagerly waiting to see how Kowboy's turns out. He's going about it the right way, as far as the new dash and individual gauges goes. It will interesting to find out how the stock HVAC works. The dash controls are mechanical cables but, there's still a few wires that go into the unit (not the wires for the blower) and I was never sure what they did.



I figured he would have gone with a Vintage Air system, maybe there's just no reason to. Unless you run into packaging problems with cage-work or something like that. Those VA units are pretty compact. Point is, you don't have to keep the stock HVAC system at all if you don't want to.



Chuck,

If you're going stand alone, you'd be able to run any engine/trans combo you want.


That's always a viable option, but it's something I'd rather not spend the extra money on if not needed. If I remember correctly they're pretty expensive. I would also have no problem running all chevy wiring/computers if that's viable.
I'll be honest and say I haven't done much of any research into this as I still have quite a few projects before a motor swap.
ChuckTheRipper is offline  
post #18 of 47 Old 01-19-2018, 07:53 AM
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 12
Feedback: 0 reviews

Having just completed a swap myself (08 JKUR/L83/6L80) I would not want to try it without a kit. These engines are basically big computers, and there's a ton of data flying around.

If you were going old school with your basic TBI 350, that would be one thing, but if you're using a more modern motor/trans setup, you're asking for a long journey chasing down electrical gremlins.

Just my two pennies.
Dunedain313 is offline  
post #19 of 47 Old 01-19-2018, 09:13 AM
JKO Addict!
 
gt1guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New Iberia, La.
Posts: 3,745
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunedain313 View Post
Having just completed a swap myself (08 JKUR/L83/6L80) I would not want to try it without a kit. These engines are basically big computers, and there's a ton of data flying around.

If you were going old school with your basic TBI 350, that would be one thing, but if you're using a more modern motor/trans setup, you're asking for a long journey chasing down electrical gremlins.

Just my two pennies.
Who's kit did you use?

Kevin
gt1guy is offline  
post #20 of 47 Old 01-19-2018, 11:06 AM
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 12
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by gt1guy View Post
Who's kit did you use?
I went with Motech. It was a beta version of their Gen V kit. We're currently putting a Gen IV LS3 into a friend's Jeep, also using a Motech kit.

Just having seen how interconnected the PCM is to everything, it would feel pretty daunting to try to tackle that piecemeal. But that's just me. Others may have a different view on that.
Dunedain313 is offline  
post #21 of 47 Old 01-19-2018, 11:38 AM
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 12
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALASHA View Post
I heard through the grape vine it is a major PITA
Hey Allan, just realized this was you.

You already know all about our builds LOL! We're pretty much done with Tim's. Should be driving within a few days.

Josh
ALASHA likes this.
Dunedain313 is offline  
post #22 of 47 Old 01-22-2018, 08:44 AM Thread Starter
JKO Addict!
 
ALASHA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 8,179
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunedain313 View Post
Hey Allan, just realized this was you.

You already know all about our builds LOL! We're pretty much done with Tim's. Should be driving within a few days.

Josh
Whats up Josh. Welcome to the forum!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ALASHA is offline  
post #23 of 47 Old 05-18-2018, 03:12 PM
jss
Rock God
 
jss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Age: 55
Posts: 1,260
Feedback: 3 reviews
No kit needed

Hey Allan
We are working on a Video, how to modify the 2007-2011 Jeep JK harness.
ALASHA and j3ff3ry_j33p like this.

["jeep speed shop The GuineaPig Build"]
VVT Truck Hemi Conversions
The ONLY CARB LEGAL JEEP ENGINE CONVERSION

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

7911 Redwood Dr, Cotati, Ca. 94931
707-338-3154
jss is offline  
post #24 of 47 Old 05-18-2018, 06:55 PM
JKO Addict!
 
ockgator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,298
Feedback: 2 reviews

The AC can be simply changed over to a CCOT (cycling clutch orifice tube) type with a compressor cycling switch, Dash would have to go aftermarket and factory cruise and abs would be a no go.
Aftermarket ignition switch and light switch could easily be fitted to dash

It CAN be done

08 2 door (yes they made them) 3.5 RK lift, 35s lunchbox locked 30 front 44 LSD rear

Ocala Jeep Club CERT member. Nation's 1st jeep CERT team

Proud to be deplorable


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ockgator is offline  
post #25 of 47 Old 05-21-2018, 06:52 AM Thread Starter
JKO Addict!
 
ALASHA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 8,179
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by ockgator View Post
The AC can be simply changed over to a CCOT (cycling clutch orifice tube) type with a compressor cycling switch, Dash would have to go aftermarket and factory cruise and abs would be a no go.
Aftermarket ignition switch and light switch could easily be fitted to dash

It CAN be done
Anything can be done with time and money. The question more succinctly is if I were to drop an LS in without a kit. What creature comforts stop working other than the dash and what would it take to get those creature comforts back? That was the original intent of this thread.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ALASHA is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome