MoTech Gen V LS Conversion - Page 5 - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #101 of 420 Old 08-15-2016, 07:13 PM
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I'm going to be in the market for a ls soon. It's off-road use only and all I care about keeping is the Air conditioning and heat. There any basic builders kits to accomplish my goals? In a 2007 automatic.
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post #102 of 420 Old 08-15-2016, 08:26 PM
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Thanks for the question. The truck billet brackets should be on an engine later this week for testing. The billet LS3 brackets will follow, the AC compressor and other parts are identical to the truck so it should go quickly.

The brackets were machined by our programmer for testing and after running we will make any final changes and run them on our in house machines.

You do have another choice, look at the video I just posted. We have now run dozens of GM drives with good results. I still feel, as do my guys, our drive lays out better and uses the accessories, hoses and lines you already have to save $. In addition most of these parts are available easily at parts stores.

We invested in a large hydraulic hose press. It nets factory like crimps and our AC and PS hoses look like OE now. Were having fittings custom made and improving the design for a better look.

I feel you will be happy with either the GM or MT drive but you will have to wait for the LS3 MT drive.
Robbie,
On that LS3 in the video, what factory drive did you use? I assume the truck, Camaro, Corvette drives are not all the same? And the water pump?

Also, you mentioned an aftermarket AC compressor. Brand? Part number?

I just realized, while billet sounds cool, I just don't really care. Factory works for me.

I'm calling John tomorrow.

Kevin
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post #103 of 420 Old 08-16-2016, 08:16 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mhare View Post
I'm going to be in the market for a ls soon. It's off-road use only and all I care about keeping is the Air conditioning and heat. There any basic builders kits to accomplish my goals? In a 2007 automatic.
Yes we have offed a basic builder kit since 2010.
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post #104 of 420 Old 08-16-2016, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
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Yes we have offed a basic builder kit since 2010.
That is the GM Performance LS3 kit using the Corvette offset.

The stock Vette drive does not lay out well because the alternator sits 17" off to the driver side due to the low hood clearance; this puts it into the PCM.

The stock Camaro drive will work but has a deeper offset so you get less fan clearance. Since we no longer run a tone ring we run the stock Vette water pump and balancer, this gives you over an additional inch of clearance to the fan. When combined with the low profile Pentstar fan you get plenty of clearance.

The Gen V engine has a new accessory drive layout, it work well in the JK. The water pump is offset tot he driver side so you get good fan clearance.

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post #105 of 420 Old 08-16-2016, 09:32 AM
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That is the GM Performance LS3 kit using the Corvette offset.

The stock Vette drive does not lay out well because the alternator sits 17" off to the driver side due to the low hood clearance; this puts it into the PCM.

The stock Camaro drive will work but has a deeper offset so you get less fan clearance. Since we no longer run a tone ring we run the stock Vette water pump and balancer, this gives you over an additional inch of clearance to the fan. When combined with the low profile Pentstar fan you get plenty of clearance.

The Gen V engine has a new accessory drive layout, it work well in the JK. The water pump is offset tot he driver side so you get good fan clearance.
Awesome, thanks Robbie. I'm calling John now.

Part # for the AC compressor you spoke of in the video?

Kevin
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post #106 of 420 Old 08-16-2016, 10:39 AM
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Awesome, thanks Robbie. I'm calling John now.

Part # for the AC compressor you spoke of in the video?
The accessory drive kit is the Chevrolet Performance part # 19299070 and the compressor is a Sanden 4514. The MoTech folks make a custom compressor mount that tucks the compressor tight to the block to stay within the frame rails and avoid contact with the UCA mount for the Jeeps without much lift. As he mentioned in a previous post, they build custom hoses for the power steering and for the AC lines.
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post #107 of 420 Old 08-16-2016, 11:50 AM
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You cry about wanting instructions that read like putting together a set of legos. Nobody is twisting your arm to spend your $$$ here. You obviously want the best conversion kit out there so this is why you are here. News flash, you're gonna have to use your noggin a bit with this one. If I were Motech I wouldn't even sell you a kit because I already know the time I am going to have to invest on the phone with you would not be worth the measly amount I made from you.
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I hate quoting huge messages so I shortened it a bit. I didnít take you for a fool or an idiot, you seem like a smart guy from what little I have read from you. I like to consider myself the same (at least my mom tells me so) One thing that guys who are thinkers and tinkerers like to do is figure stuff out! I almost revel in the chance to tackle stuff like this knowing the mental and physical challenge that is ahead. I can fully understand if this is your daily driver and you need it to be down as little as possible but letís be honest, if you can afford this swap you can purchase a beater to get around in for a few more weeks.
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Jesus Christ, yall both wanted bernie as prez right? The stench of entitlement is so thick between the two of you. Nobody owes you squat including instructions. You donít like or want it because there arenít any, donít buy it. In your case alasha this frees up your friends rack, how convenient!
Hey DKjeep, I just wanted to say thanks for helping me see the light!! Instructions?? We donít need no stinkin instructions!!! What the hell was I thinking. Did you happen to watch that video on the Gen III harness that Motech posted?? Actually, I hope you didnít because after watching it, well hell, all of your tinkering and figuriní it out time would be gone! I really hope this doesnít spoil it for you, so if you didnít watch it, donít read the rest of this post!

The part about the revised fuel emissions evap control system was a real DUH! moment for me. So in the box of parts that showed up from Motech is going to be a plastic tee, a piece of vapor line and a GM (I assume a GM) fuel pressure sensor. Now you being the great thinker and tinker you are might say to yourself, ďbut the Pentastar already has a fuel pressure sensorĒ. I am sure that would only give you a momentary pause. Of course you install the new pressure sensor with the factory one left in place. Who wonít just KNOW that!!!

But wait, if your order in the next 60 seconds, we will also include a brand new evap vent solenoid at no extra charge! (The JK does not use a vent solenoid.) And since there are only 2 lines connected to the evap canister you have a 50 / 50 chance of getting it connected to the right line. And assuming you tinker away until that becomes clear as a bell, donít forget it has to be mounted in a certain spatial direction! But silly me, everybody knows that a GM (another assumption) vent solenoid gets mounted in a specific orientation! Once that is all done, you have successfully converted the Chrysler open loop evap system to the GM closed loop feedback evap system. But, shucks, you already knew that!

But wait, thereís more. I know how all of us tinkerers love to just roll up our sleeves and use our noggins!! Well Motech gives us even more opportunity to excel! The new Gen III harness its ďvirtually plug and playĒ. Virtually because there are 2 individual wires that have to be pinned into your stock JK ECU C3 connector. But hell, that is nothing for an olí tinkerer like you! There canít be more that 20 or 30 vacant pin positions in the C3 connector, so just trial and error shouldnít take more than a few weeks! (I am just guessing as to the number of vacant pin positions in C3 in a Pentastar. Itís been a while since I did a 6.4 hemi swap and those swaps require a similar (if not the same) 2 wire into the C3 connector as well. ) Oh shit, though, we donít know exactly what those 2 wires do! Oh well, we can just plug them into the first two vacant positions, drive that jeep around and see if everything works. If something doesnít work, then move the wires to the next 2 pin positions, rinse and repeat. Just remember to keep track of which wire goes in what order so when you have to start all over, you can REVERSE the order this time. Your second time through all the vacant pin positions in the C3 connector is guaranteed to hit the right combo!!!

Again, thanks DKjeep for helping me see the light. What was I thinking! Sometimes I just become an entitled whiny little bitch! But thanks to good people like you, I have snapped out of it.


Quote:
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Hi guys,

Were dropping the body on a 2015 JKUR so Mitch and I thought we would take a short video on how simple this is. I'm not saying instructions or a decent up to date needs list are required, Necuphile has a point about that. My point is this install has got pretty easy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u525WFVK3Cw
Robbie, great video. It really helped clarify what is involved in the swap from a wiring and emissions system perspective. And your modification of the evap system to mimic the GM system is EXACTLY the kind of stuff that the CO State Emissions Lab would be looking for during an engine swap certification.
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post #108 of 420 Old 08-16-2016, 12:15 PM
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Hey DKjeep, I just wanted to say thanks for helping me see the light!! Sometimes I just become an entitled whiny little bitch! But thanks to good people like you, I have snapped out of it.
I quoted the only important parts of that post. You're welcome btw.
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post #109 of 420 Old 08-16-2016, 12:25 PM
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I quoted the only important parts of that post. You're welcome btw.
That is your best comeback???? I am disappointed........

Even with good instructions there will be plenty of challenges and opportunities for problem solving. We both will be using our noggins.

Last edited by Nucleophile; 08-16-2016 at 12:29 PM.
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post #110 of 420 Old 08-16-2016, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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A couple quick videos:

This is the body before we drop.

Here is the LFX engine we are looking at for an affordable swap. Over 300 HP with a 6 speed transmission. Some variants are over 400 HP plus it is compact and light. We have much of the network online including the cluster. We have the driver information center operational for guys that may want to install this in an older truck or muscle car. We have even had some success interfacing through bluetooth.

I've worked with the Colorado lab a few times, it really depends who you get and their knowledge. As a level 2 emissions inspector of 20 years I usually speak the same language when they call me. We just got our first LS3 compliant in California, it took several conversations with referee's and their supervisors. The fact they can talk to me and question me on the emissions control helps them make a decision. They always ask about the EVAP system to ensure we brought over all the mode 6 data(data to run monitors), DTC's, etc....the software. They also want to see the original hardware, this is a requirement of the USEPA. By installing the original EVAP vent solenoid and Fuel Tank pressure Sensor we remain compliant. Early JK's do not run either a FTP or Vent solenoid so they are added, the new system is more effective. Pentstar JK's do not use a vent solenoid and still depend on the ESIM for venting/Purging. The FTP can be used for EVAP leak detection and fuel control, but the computer still cannot vent the system, only purge it. This has been an issue with some Hemi swaps since there are differences in the EVAP systems and software which causes monitors to not run properly.

Because of my background I have worked with many emission labs and have even had meetings with lawmakers to determine standards for conversion requirements. The fact is they are usually on our side but they want to see proper installations engineered and documented. The want to ask questions and get answers from knowledgeable individuals. As an inspector I saw what they have to deal with, swaps that aren't near compliant with little or no documentation. At that point they have to work to document what is wrong and you lost them. But done professionally and well supported we have had great success even in places like California.

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post #111 of 420 Old 08-16-2016, 09:10 PM
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Don't want to clog up this thread, but would like to hear more about the LFX.
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post #112 of 420 Old 08-17-2016, 08:23 AM
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Yes we can support manual transmissions. Remember GM did not offer Gen IV V8 manual trucks so we have to make a few changes.

The stock 6 speed works well with a 5.3, have one in the shop now. We also support the NVG 4500 and Tremec in the larger engines.
are you using a 07-11 6 speed manual or a 12-16 manual transmission? If I could drop a 5.3 with my 08 manual 6 speed, I would be a very happy camper.

IF your not first... Your last!!
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post #113 of 420 Old 08-17-2016, 10:57 AM
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Robbie -

Similar question as above. I want you to do the Gen V swap in my JKU. Let's talk transmission for a moment. Mine is a six speed. The plan was to swap over to GM factory auto.

I show max input torque on the JK six speed as under 300. My intent is to be well over this. What do you think? I like the stick, but don't want to kill it and I am not super stoked on the 4500. Absent other info, the new auto seems like the way to go with its fairly deep first gear and high OD.

Give us all some thoughts here.

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post #114 of 420 Old 08-17-2016, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by rgeorge33 View Post
The accessory drive kit is the Chevrolet Performance part # 19299070 and the compressor is a Sanden 4514. The MoTech folks make a custom compressor mount that tucks the compressor tight to the block to stay within the frame rails and avoid contact with the UCA mount for the Jeeps without much lift. As he mentioned in a previous post, they build custom hoses for the power steering and for the AC lines.
That part number comes up CTS-V. I take it, it's the same layout as a Camaro, but with the Corvette offset?

Do you have a part # for the water pump and harmonic balancer you used? Summit and Jegs are giving me different numbers for the balancer and water pump needed.

Got the Sanden compressor ordered

Kevin
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post #115 of 420 Old 08-17-2016, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
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are you using a 07-11 6 speed manual or a 12-16 manual transmission? If I could drop a 5.3 with my 08 manual 6 speed, I would be a very happy camper.
We are using the early 6 speed with the Novak LS-NSG370 adapter. The JK 6 speed has the minivan bellhousing so it needs to be swapped out for the 4.0 TJ housing to run the larger flywheel(you may be able to do this with the Pentstar 6 speed check with Novak). With the popularity of the automatic 6 speed we do not do a lot of manual swaps.

The stock 6 speed manual is only good for 300-350 foot ponds of torque so a 5.3 is the max you want to go with it. Remember the Gen IV 5.3 was not offered with a manual transmission so there are some oddities with the OS.

We have done several NVG 4500 transmissions and I agree they are truck like. We did a 525 HP LS3 with the 4500 and the 0-60 times really suffer due to the slow shifting, but it is a blast to drive.

There is now a Tremec 6 speed 4WD available that addresses the slow shifting issue and is strong, only downside is the cost.

Personally I like the automatic, it has a manual mode, rpm match shifting, a second overdrive that spins the engine slower then the manual on the highway; and a 4:1 first gear that launches harder than the manual off the line. With the low friction, low heat and adaptive learning of the CAN transmission your not losing much if any mpg and they are like cheating off-road.

That being said I always get the guy from Canada or Montana that want the manual transmission to rock his Jeep out of the snow with the clutch pedal; or, if climbing a steep grade have the ability to throw in the clutch to keep from going over since it is quicker than the automatic. Well I guess it is a trade off, more than 99% of the time I will not be in either of those situations so I prefer the automatic.

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post #116 of 420 Old 08-17-2016, 01:17 PM
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What did you have to do to get 525 HP😀

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post #117 of 420 Old 08-17-2016, 01:25 PM
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What did you have to do to get 525 HP😀
There is a GMPP 6.2 that comes that way right out of the box.
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post #118 of 420 Old 08-17-2016, 03:11 PM
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There is a GMPP 6.2 that comes that way right out of the box.
😀😀😀😀😀👍

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post #119 of 420 Old 08-17-2016, 04:13 PM
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We got the cruise working today in the lfx engine. Next will be tap shift and we finished electronically speaking.
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post #120 of 420 Old 08-17-2016, 05:49 PM Thread Starter
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Another quick video of the Gen V 6.2 JK. Were learning the new technology that the Gen V engines employ. The brake pedal position sensors are critical to engine operation on these Gen V engines. The BBPS is used for torque converter control, torque management, cruise control and other functions. The engine will go into a reduced power mode without the BPPS.

A couple interesting notes:

You can't power break the engine in the traditional way, the ECM knows your on the brake pedal and limits torque. When slowing down the ECM knows how hard you are on the brakes and adjusts compression braking accordingly. The BCM, ECM and TCM all use BPPS data for various control functions, shifting, DFCO, etc.... The end result is a powertrain that has more power and uses less fuel.

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post #121 of 420 Old 08-17-2016, 07:03 PM
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Keep that up Mitch and I'll need new tires/brakes when I get it back! Only had 200 miles on those 40" Nittos when I dropped her off! Sounds and looks good guys. I'm ready to get it on the trail. Call me when it's ready.
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post #122 of 420 Old 08-17-2016, 07:21 PM
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Just realized where you are, I did all the ac on that place !

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post #123 of 420 Old 08-17-2016, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gt1guy View Post
That part number comes up CTS-V. I take it, it's the same layout as a Camaro, but with the Corvette offset?

Do you have a part # for the water pump and harmonic balancer you used? Summit and Jegs are giving me different numbers for the balancer and water pump needed.

Got the Sanden compressor ordered
I don't have the part numbers, but it is the Corvette spacing. You can go to any online chevy parts retailer and figure out the part numbers. Just look up a base corvette from 2008-2013. Be sure you don't choose the Grand Sport with manual transmission. It had a dry sump oil system with forged crank and used the LS7 balancer. If you're ordering the crate motor new, most of the LS3s come with the vette balancer and water pump. Sorry I don't have the info.
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post #124 of 420 Old 08-17-2016, 07:25 PM
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Robby... What are your thoughts on a 650HP/LT4 in a JK?
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post #125 of 420 Old 08-17-2016, 07:36 PM
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Your Jeep drives so nice. Its such a pleasure to drive. The engine is so strong and pulls so hard. It would roast the tires but the stock tune has alot of torque management in it. It keeps it safe at least. We installed a much larger transmission cooler in it today and finished the mount for the brake position sensor. When braking hard the engine revs match which is cool. Over the next few days we will be doing alot of test driving.
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