MoTech Gen V LS Conversion - Page 2 - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #26 of 420 Old 07-10-2016, 07:42 PM
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Until the Gen III electronics I considered our swap a builders kit, not plug and play and it mainly intended for our installers. Many customers had install issues because it was not plug and play with stereo instructions so I had to make a decision. Supporting kits is costly and not as profitable as in house swaps. We could have dropped supporting kits but rather I chose not to advertise nor push them in the market. I kept a low profile on the forums and to this day have done no advertising. Guys that wanted kits would have to wait and deal with the open source nature of it. We sold a lot of kits, and it is interesting, some guys did the entire install without a single call to me. The read the forums and used common sense. Other guys needed help just about every day of their build.
Thanks for being candid about the past and current state of the kits. The few threads I have read it seemed like the DYI crowd was having a fair amount of challenges. I don't mind a good challenge, but I don't want my jeep laying in pieces for weeks or months as that becomes problematic on a number of fronts.

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Now we have a larger shop, we are purchasing parts in larger quantities. With the electronics virtually rationalized we can focus on production and proper instructions. Mitch and Joey(wiring guys) are putting together video and paper instructions.
While I am not a technical writer nor do I have a training background, I am not sure I would use video as a good way to provide the necessary detail needed for such a complex undertaking. I think written instructions that include photos with graphics overlay can be just as or even more effective. Video is good for showing motion. The instructions need to show current state and / or desired state. In addition, kits will continue to evolve, parts change, therefore the instructions have to change. A written document is far easier to edit. Doing another video just because of a minor, but important change in a part would be a waste of resources. But that is just my $.02.






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We are redesigning our website LSWrangler.com we are adding an interactive "Build your JK" feature so you can get pricing right off the site without a builder form sent in. .
I did go to the website before I wrote my diatribe. I found a lot of the material to be dated and somewhat hard to follow. An update would be good, but just another "to do" that may or may not get in the way of developing a consumer level kit.

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So to answer your question yes we can provide a consumer level lit for your JK. As you can see we are gearing up for exactly that. The instructions are in the works and when available we will add the kit to the website. Our goal is to ruduce the install time and be virtually plug and play. This not only saves you time and grief it does the same for me.

I have zero doubt that you CAN provide a great conversion kit. The question is really when. I am not going to ask for a timeframe. After nearly 2 years of waiting, well it will happen when it happens. I just have to decide what I am going to do. I could drop in a 6.4 hemi. Sure its heavy, but it hauls ass. And given that I have already helped on a couple of 6.4 conversions, it would be very straight forward for me. As for the overheating concerns, I never had any issues with my 5.7 conversion even at high speed at altitude in the summer on long grades. Mine ran perfect.

Or maybe I will wait and see if the new JK with the AL body and 8 speed transmission is a little more lively. The transmission might be a game changer for the Pentacrap motor.

Or maybe leave the jeep alone and focus on putting a blower on my Gen V. That might be interesting.............

Glad to see that things at Motech are progressing. However, I think the ideal situation would be if a customer could drop off a Jeep on Monday and pick it up complete on the following Friday. If my friend and I can do a hemi conversion in a garage (with a two post lift) in a week, it stands to reason a professional shop should be able to do an LS conversion in week also. That would mitigate some of my concerns about having an in shop conversion done.
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post #27 of 420 Old 07-20-2016, 04:14 PM
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I did my DIY customer installed Motech kit with a 6.0 & 6L80 a couple of months ago. I actually thought it was rather easy with a 2 post lift and a little support from Robbie and Mitch. I would like to think I didn't bother them too much!! Videos were very helpful?
My JK is much more fun to drive!!


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post #28 of 420 Old 07-20-2016, 08:43 PM
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Very interesting read..

I am very interested in pulling the trigger on a LS swap for my Jeep in the near future.
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post #29 of 420 Old 08-02-2016, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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Here's some pictures of the gen V 6.2 before we drop the body. you can see the belt driven vacuum pump which should give us good braking even at idle. Looks like we may be able to use the full size truck exhaust manifolds.



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post #30 of 420 Old 08-02-2016, 01:22 PM
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Looks good! If you dont mind me asking, what did you pick up that 6.2 for? In it a pullout engine and trans or a crate engine?

08 JKU 6.0 LC8 6L80 Atlas 2 39" KM3's on Trilogy race beadlocks, prorock 44,rcv's arb front. rock jock 60 rear 40spline shafts,arb 5.13's and a bunch of other stuff
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post #31 of 420 Old 08-02-2016, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
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Looks good! If you dont mind me asking, what did you pick up that 6.2 for? In it a pullout engine and trans or a crate engine?
Were seeing about $4-5k for a L83 5.3 with transmission and all the extras right now. The 6.2's are running about $2k more; but that is about $2k less than last year. I think the prices will drop as there is more supply.

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post #32 of 420 Old 08-02-2016, 09:11 PM
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Were seeing about $4-5k for a L83 5.3 with transmission and all the extras right now. The 6.2's are running about $2k more; but that is about $2k less than last year. I think the prices will drop as there is more supply.
OK! So we are still talking about $20k all in. Higher for me with a manual and a 2016.

I can wait til next year and supply catches up a bit.

Any downside to the 6.2? My armored up Jeep is officially a pig and I figure if you are going to do it, do it right.

My Jeep will look great in your shop... Red Jeep. Red rocks.

Are you going to be out at SEMA? Would like to chat if you had a moment.

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post #33 of 420 Old 08-03-2016, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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OK! So we are still talking about $20k all in. Higher for me with a manual and a 2016.

I can wait til next year and supply catches up a bit.

Any downside to the 6.2? My armored up Jeep is officially a pig and I figure if you are going to do it, do it right.

My Jeep will look great in your shop... Red Jeep. Red rocks.

Are you going to be out at SEMA? Would like to chat if you had a moment.
Here's a picture of the Gen V engine with body on, we should be driving this one soon.


Anyone interested in a Gen IV swap please pm me, we are going to offer discounted install prices for forum members due to the economies from our Gen III kit. We have several 6.0 and 6.2 engines in inventory that are ready to go.

The economies will also apply to the Gen V swaps. The Gen V powertrains are a little more expensive currently but will come down. PM me your email address and I will send you an ID form to fill out for a quote. We hope to have an interactive price guide up on our website soon, it will allow you to build your JK and get a build cost without contacting us.

The advantages of the 6.2 are over 400 HP, all aluminum and lots of torque. The downside to the 6.2 is the higher cost. When talking Gen IV engine the 6.0 is a bargain, performance of a VVT Hemi on regular gas at a very affordable price.

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post #34 of 420 Old 08-03-2016, 12:21 PM
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I REALLY wish I had the cash to do a 6.0 and 6l80 swap right now! The 6.0's that you have in inventory, are they used or new?

08 JKU 6.0 LC8 6L80 Atlas 2 39" KM3's on Trilogy race beadlocks, prorock 44,rcv's arb front. rock jock 60 rear 40spline shafts,arb 5.13's and a bunch of other stuff
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post #35 of 420 Old 08-03-2016, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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I REALLY wish I had the cash to do a 6.0 and 6l80 swap right now! The 6.0's that you have in inventory, are they used or new?
All the 6.0's we have are low mileage. GM stopped production on most Gen IV V8's when the Gen V engine was introduced so getting new crate 6.0's and 6.2 truck engines is difficult. There is still new production on the 6.2 LS3 and 5.3 LC9 engines because GM sells a lot of E-Rod packages and LS3's in general.

The 6.0 is a very strong engine and capable of 300,000 miles so even if you get one with 50,000 miles it still has a long way to go.
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post #36 of 420 Old 08-04-2016, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
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Man does this thing sound aggressive With Direct Injection and CVVT it has throttle response like a 1/4 mile car. At the same time it purr's at idle like a stocker.

With our Gen III electronics this install has no redundancies. The Jeep C100 harness has been removed and there is a simple plug in from the LS harness into the JK PCM.

This LS is entirely stand alone, fan control, charging, etc... This makes it as reliable as it can be. Were running all OE GM wiring for reliability, functionality and economics. In addition full emission compliance and factory calibrations in the engine and transmission.

I hope to be driving it next week.


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post #37 of 420 Old 08-05-2016, 12:01 PM
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the temptation is real!

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post #38 of 420 Old 08-07-2016, 06:39 PM Thread Starter
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I thought you might want to see a peak at our new billet aluminum accessory drive brackets. They require no alignment and have been thoroughly tested. We have the truck drive about complete, the LS3 is in the works. For now were running the stock accessory drive on the Gen V engines with the exception of the PS pump which Gen V engines do not run. I'll start a proper thread when we are running these brackets on our machines.
TRUCK POWER STEERING BRACKET.PDF

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post #39 of 420 Old 08-08-2016, 06:59 PM
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I would also like to swap back to the GM accessory drive as well as a heavy duty radiator and pentastar fan.

I can't remember which version kit I used but I finished it a couple of years ago using a 2013 LC9 truck engine in my 2007 JK. I tow my dirt bike trailer with a few bikes on it and powerwise I'm fine but it gets pretty hot on the steep hills. I see it's around $1500 for the rad and fan, now is that possible to fit on my set-up?

As well, when you say it's "easy" to convert back to the GM drive, is that easy for you, or does that mean a hack like myself could do it? And if you don't mind maybe a brief explanation as to how I could go about doing this. My a/c compressor seems to be on it's way out even after a fresh charge.

Thanks for keeping us up to date,
Sean
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post #40 of 420 Old 08-08-2016, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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I would also like to swap back to the GM accessory drive as well as a heavy duty radiator and pentastar fan.

I can't remember which version kit I used but I finished it a couple of years ago using a 2013 LC9 truck engine in my 2007 JK. I tow my dirt bike trailer with a few bikes on it and powerwise I'm fine but it gets pretty hot on the steep hills. I see it's around $1500 for the rad and fan, now is that possible to fit on my set-up?

As well, when you say it's "easy" to convert back to the GM drive, is that easy for you, or does that mean a hack like myself could do it? And if you don't mind maybe a brief explanation as to how I could go about doing this. My a/c compressor seems to be on it's way out even after a fresh charge.

Thanks for keeping us up to date,
Sean
It's easy to go from one drive to the other, we will need to supply new hoses and lines.

The Pentstar fan is enough for most applications even with light towing.

Keep an eye out for some extreme cooling options soon.

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post #41 of 420 Old 08-08-2016, 11:28 PM
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Keep an eye out for some extreme cooling options soon.
I hope to see the extreme cooling options on this gen V. My 1101 mil trailer is fairly heavy when loaded up.
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post #42 of 420 Old 08-09-2016, 09:56 AM
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Just looked at the v6eco diesel engine in a new Ram , could this be a new option for a swap ?

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post #43 of 420 Old 08-09-2016, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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Just looked at the v6eco diesel engine in a new Ram , could this be a new option for a swap ?
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Just looked at the v6eco diesel engine in a new Ram , could this be a new option for a swap ?
Yes good question. Yes we are looking at that engine and the new Colorado baby diesel, they both may work in a JK.

Problem for years with the diesel has been finding one that is USEPA compliant and is small and light enough to make sense.

We finally have some options but there are still challenges. The modern diesels have extensive emission systems that must be brought over, especially exhaust treatment. Secondly is the cost, a good low mileage diesel from a Ram truck can run $9k without the transmission and other components. I have been watching the prices drop but Chrysler is not making millions of them like the LS so prices may not drop too much. The Colorado engine I hear is pretty good and it is made by GM so parts and service should be better.

I was hoping to have a diesel running this year, were going to give it a shot.

FYI we are working on a Camaro LFX engine, the 3.6 DOHC engine with over 300 HP and a 6 speed transmission. Some variants are over 400 HP but we are concerned with the available torque of a small displacement engine, similar to the Pentstar. The LFX is inexpensive right now as we are looking for a low cost solution for the 3.8 JK's to get an additional 100 HP with an excellent 6 speed automatic for a reasonable price. We have an LFX running now, Mitch has integrated the BCM and even the factory instrument cluster so you can get all the OE information, even connect your phone.
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post #44 of 420 Old 08-09-2016, 02:27 PM
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If you are looking at diesels, why not the 5.0 Cummins from the Titan? Its a beast of a motor and Cummins was considering starting a crate engine program. The guys from road kill were able to get their hands on one. Obviously they wont be cheap but will be available at least without going to a junk yard...


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post #45 of 420 Old 08-09-2016, 04:45 PM
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Sigh.................

I can see that actually getting a consumer level kit into production, with instructions, for a basic LS conversion (my choice would be an LS 3) is not going to be getting the attention it needs. First Gen V motors. Now its diesels and V6s. What next, a hybrid??

I need to just let go of my dream of a 480 hp LS3 crate motor in my JK...................I have to move on. Its not going to happen.

Clearly its your business and your choice, but I can't say I am happy about it. I think you are leaving the do-it-yourself market untapped when it comes to LS conversions.

Perhaps another hemi conversion is the only way to go...........
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post #46 of 420 Old 08-09-2016, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
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Sigh.................

I can see that actually getting a consumer level kit into production, with instructions, for a basic LS conversion (my choice would be an LS 3) is not going to be getting the attention it needs. First Gen V motors. Now its diesels and V6s. What next, a hybrid??

I need to just let go of my dream of a 480 hp LS3 crate motor in my JK...................I have to move on. Its not going to happen.

Clearly its your business and your choice, but I can't say I am happy about it. I think you are leaving the do-it-yourself market untapped when it comes to LS conversions.

Perhaps another hemi conversion is the only way to go...........
? We spent a lot of effort creating our plug and play Gen III kit to support the Gen IV engines including the 480 HP engine.

We are gearing the kit towards the DlY install and we are shipping now.

PM me for special forum pricing.
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post #47 of 420 Old 08-09-2016, 07:14 PM
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? We spent a lot of effort creating our plug and play Gen III kit to support the Gen IV engines including the 480 HP engine.

We are gearing the kit towards the DlY install and we are shipping now.

PM me for special forum pricing.
Robbie, I need to see the instructions first before I put an order in. As I think I stated before, I will be pulling the body off in a friends shop. I cannot just tie up his two post for weeks on end. I need to know that the instructions are clear, concise and complete.

When I did my AEV hemi conversion in his shop I was in and out in 5 days. And that included a day chasing a bad ground.

I don't need to be playing phone tag around "where does this plug into". I would expect phone support to be a last resort.

I have wrenched on 3 or 4 hemi conversions. I feel very comfortable with them. But the LS is a completely different animal and marrying it to the JK canbus will take some clear instructions.
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post #48 of 420 Old 08-09-2016, 07:32 PM
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I gotta say I never did an engine swap in my life. I've always worked on cars and stuff and built a Model A hotrod but this swap is quite easy. My biggest problems were getting an exhaust set-up and getting the rad hoses to fit the stock radiator. If I were to do it again I'd go with the HD rad right from the get go.

If you have a 2-post lift like I do this would probably be a walk in the park for you.

Sean
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post #49 of 420 Old 08-09-2016, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
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Robbie, I need to see the instructions first before I put an order in. As I think I stated before, I will be pulling the body off in a friends shop. I cannot just tie up his two post for weeks on end. I need to know that the instructions are clear, concise and complete.

When I did my AEV hemi conversion in his shop I was in and out in 5 days. And that included a day chasing a bad ground.

I don't need to be playing phone tag around "where does this plug into". I would expect phone support to be a last resort.

I have wrenched on 3 or 4 hemi conversions. I feel very comfortable with them. But the LS is a completely different animal and marrying it to the JK canbus will take some clear instructions.
Right instructions are important. In the 8 years we have been doing the LS JK swap the install has evolved faster than the instructions. Over the last 2 years not much has changed as the install has become rationalized so instructions make sense for the DIY install. We do offer basic instructions but they are not detailed.

We have already started on the Gen III kit instructions, both videos and written. Back in 2008/9 we worked on Hemi JK's, living in Vegas it was not for me. I embarked on the LS JK project. It was a challenge and there was nothing out there to help. Countless hours were spent in R&D, many long days and nights. I broke it up into projects, cruise control, AC, PRNDL, etc... I went through a half dozen engine mount designs before settling on the OE hydraulic mounts, they were not easy but are required for AFM engines. Early on we had full functionality but the interface was crude and complex. What's amazing with the current swap is how simple it is, the hard part was making it simple. I think you will be surprised how streamlined the kit is. You can count on one hand the wires that need to be tapped into the vehicle, otherwise it is plug and play. The wire count is down to near OE.

To answer your other concerns needs a little explanation. 8 years ago many said an LS would not work in a JK. When it was apparent it worked very well a lot changed. Many shops that specialized in superchargers and Hemi's wanted in. Performance guys know what the LS is and wanted it. Shop owners came to our shop and purchased kits. A few purchased the kit to backwards engineer it. They picked apart our harnesses and duplicated our brackets and mounts, surf the net, look at what is out there and I think you will agree. Some claim lower cost, others better service or improvements; any way you look at it it affects how we do business. Of coarse we have non competes but you know how that goes, I hate litigation. In fact we may have to go there again.

So we choose to forge on and move forward. When the competition starts to copy your old stuff introduce new stuff to stay ahead. This is one reason of many for the Gen V swap. We are not afraid of innovation and do not pirate anything. It's simple supply and demand. Guys want diesel's and newer engines and if we supply it the demand will be there, it's how we survive.

We also need the Gen V engines for emissions compliance and better mpg. I would like to offer the Gen IV swap forever, we have it rationalized, but we can't; we have to offer more. The competition does not have the development costs when they copy so it places us at a disadvantage.

It's all worth it too me, every time I get in my 09' Rubi with a 6.2 I get a smile. I'm proud of what we have achieved I feel the LS is still the best power option.

You may not understand why we are diversifying our product line but it is important. We could just install Hemi's with someone's kit and be like dozens of other shops fighting for customers. We would rather be known as the innovators where customers come to us since we offer a unique product. The copy cat's will continue and we will move on, it is the nature of the beast.

You can look forward to some innovative JK products from us, I haven't been as excited as I am with the Gen V engines in a while. It's really a step forward for all of us and pretty much making the other options less attractive IMO.

Keep an eye on our YT channel for new instructional videos.

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post #50 of 420 Old 08-10-2016, 06:18 AM
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Robbi, I think you are misinterpreting Nucleophile's point. Its not about preventing you from diversifying and creating new swaps. The more power to you for doing that. If the market supports it (which it looks like it does) then of course you should pursue it.

The point is there exists a large demographic that wishes to do this swap on their own. They need clear and concise instructions to do so. Taking the time up front to make those instructions will in turn lead to more sales and more importantly less customer service time required to help those undertaking the swap with "basic" instructions.


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