MoTech Gen V LS Conversion - Page 10 - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #226 of 420 Old 10-26-2016, 06:38 PM
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Love that Gen V! Thanks for posting the videos!!!
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post #227 of 420 Old 10-26-2016, 07:03 PM
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Like the foot out the side like it would stop it .😆

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post #228 of 420 Old 11-03-2016, 11:03 AM
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I am excited to see that Chevrolet Performance is offering the 8L90-E in their 2017 Performance Catalog. Do you think their Connect & Cruise crate powertrain systems will be part of your builds? The new LT376/535 crate motor also looks pretty exciting.

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post #229 of 420 Old 11-03-2016, 11:16 AM
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I am excited to see that Chevrolet Performance is offering the 8L90-E in their 2017 Performance Catalog. Do you think their Connect & Cruise crate powertrain systems will be part of your builds? The new LT376/535 crate motor also looks pretty exciting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YytJcvX-LCQ
The 376/535 does look good. Super pricy and wet sump oiling only is frowny face for me though.
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post #230 of 420 Old 11-03-2016, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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I am excited to see that Chevrolet Performance is offering the 8L90-E in their 2017 Performance Catalog. Do you think their Connect & Cruise crate powertrain systems will be part of your builds? The new LT376/535 crate motor also looks pretty exciting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YytJcvX-LCQ
The Gen V 6.2 is a beast, even the L86. We have been able to use(and have used) the Chevrolet Performance engines in our builds many times. They are not USEPA approved for OBD II emissions if that is a concern. Most E-Rod and other Chevrolet Performance engines ran separate transmission control; so for example a 4l60 with a stand alone controller while the crate engine used a E67 ECM with a GM Performance tune that only controlled the engine. In this situation the engine and transmission essentially run as two separate components and are not well integrated. Obviously we run a full OE network which integrates the TCM on the network which allows factory cruise control, tapshift etc.. with CAN transmissions like the 6l50, 80, 8l80....

It's nice to see GM offer the 8l80 in their package, may have something to do with the fact the 8l80 runs a stand alone external TCM where the 6l80 had an internal TCM which was OS specific.

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post #231 of 420 Old 11-09-2016, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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Here's a couple shots of our LS3 harness and it's simplicity. The LS3 is still a formidable engine and over half the swaps we do are LS3's. This harness runs all the original power and ground distribution that GM uses on the original harness for redundancy. Some manufacturers reduce the fuse count to a minimum to save costs by ganging circuits. The problem with this(and there are more) is let's say you short out an injector you won't just lose half the engine you will lose all the cylinders. GM's wiring is layed out to add redundancy's with power and ground distribution. If a coil goes bad it may take out one bank but you drive home in the other. This harness uses OE GM cloth tape wires and connectors. You can run Camaro or Vette covers but I think the LS3 looks better with no covers.




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post #232 of 420 Old 11-11-2016, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
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Guys a sneak peak of our Gen IV MT module with CAN control. The check engine light, cruise control light, PRNDL(notice it is in 6th but we will also will support the 8 speed) and AC signals are processed through our CAN bridge.


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post #233 of 420 Old 11-26-2016, 03:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quick video trying to explain the manual gate, it's not easy. We will go into depth on the various OS's later, even the Gen V manual mode is different now.


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post #234 of 420 Old 12-22-2016, 04:01 PM
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I wonder if the Motech boys could provide a little more info regarding their experience with manual conversions? I question the durability of the clutch (what clutch is generally used?), driveshaft and rear-end with so much power and 35's - (particularly with "spirited" driving).

Also, I read a post from some time ago that the conversions were all done in the Buffalo location...is that still the case and what exactly is that location? I don't see anywhere on the website a list of locations - where are they?

Thanks!

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post #235 of 420 Old 12-23-2016, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tjim01 View Post
I wonder if the Motech boys could provide a little more info regarding their experience with manual conversions? I question the durability of the clutch (what clutch is generally used?), driveshaft and rear-end with so much power and 35's - (particularly with "spirited" driving).

Also, I read a post from some time ago that the conversions were all done in the Buffalo location...is that still the case and what exactly is that location? I don't see anywhere on the website a list of locations - where are they?

Thanks!
We now have a larger shop at 3045 N Lamb Blvd LV, NV 89115. We have a few installers around the country contact the office for more information.

Manual transmissions are becoming rare, with the advances in the automatics the manual is at a disadvantage. Starting with the Gen IV truck engines GM began to phase out manual transmissions, while they can be supported they require a custom tune. The LS3 can support a manual transmission with the OE tune but the 4WD Tremec is not cheap, the NVG 4500 works okay but is a bit clunky. The NSG370 actually works well with a 5.3 Gen IV engine.

In general stock axles hold up well if you don't drive like a Gorilla or abuse your JK. I have the original D44's in my JKUR with 80,000 miles and no problem. For tires above 35" you want to upgrade the drive shafts and possibly the axles depending on the application.

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post #236 of 420 Old 12-23-2016, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Mitch and Joey playing around in the shop again. This is our first Gen V L83 5.3 start up. It sounds strong and with high compression and CVVT I think it may make up for the lack of torque the Gen IV 5.3 has in heavy JK's. Advantages of the Gen V 5.3 may be low cost, regular gas and good mid range torque for heavy JK's. Hopefully we'll have one on the road shortly till now most of our Gen V customers went with the 6.2. The Gen IV 6.0 is one of my favorite engines and I hope this makes an appropriate substitute for newer JK's and JK's in California.

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post #237 of 420 Old 12-23-2016, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by MoTech View Post
Mitch and Joey playing around in the shop again. This is our first Gen V L83 5.3 start up. It sounds strong and with high compression and CVVT I think it may make up for the lack of torque the Gen IV 5.3 has in heavy JK's. Advantages of the Gen V 5.3 may be low cost, regular gas and good mid range torque for heavy JK's. Hopefully we'll have one on the road shortly till now most of our Gen V customers went with the 6.2. The Gen IV 6.0 is one of my favorite engines and I hope this makes an appropriate substitute for newer JK's and JK's in California.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymga...ature=youtu.be
Thank you for all the work and help to the JK community.

I have read everything three times and want to make sure I am getting it correctly.

. My JK is a 2015, I need to be emissions legal. My options are the 5.3 or the 6.2 GenV as the engine needs to be same year or newer?
. Larger engine is running about $5k more.
. I have heard you mention it in passing, but not address it in depth. How does the Atlas t.case work? It seems worth a few K more to do it right and scrap the marginal stock case and get the deeper low range. Does this also fix the shit stock cable linkage?

Thanks for the info.

Also any experienced installers in the Pacific Northwest? Otherwise, happy to come visit you.

. Z

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post #238 of 420 Old 12-23-2016, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for all the work and help to the JK community.

I have read everything three times and want to make sure I am getting it correctly.

. My JK is a 2015, I need to be emissions legal. My options are the 5.3 or the 6.2 GenV as the engine needs to be same year or newer?
. Larger engine is running about $5k more.
. I have heard you mention it in passing, but not address it in depth. How does the Atlas t.case work? It seems worth a few K more to do it right and scrap the marginal stock case and get the deeper low range. Does this also fix the shit stock cable linkage?

Thanks for the info.

Also any experienced installers in the Pacific Northwest? Otherwise, happy to come visit you.

. Z
The stock 241J actually does a good job even with the 6.2's. The 2012+ 241 automatic TC's are not compatible with our swap due to the female input on the TC. With the Atlas 2 twin stick you get front wheel drive and 2 wheel drive low. I do not recommend the A4 or ratios lower than 3:1 unless you want to crawl. You must remember the 6l80 has a 4:1 low which is the same ratio as the 241OR low ratio so you are not losing much. Going with a 4:1 TC and 4:1 first gear(the 8l90 is even lower) reduces wheel speed so running in mud, sand or snow is difficult; this is a 16:1 ratio vs a stock Rubicon which has about 11:1. Add in the torque of the V8 and most guys are better off with a 3:1 ratio TC.

Yes the rule is the engine or engine family must be the same year or newer than the vehicle. Hopefully this Gen V 5.3 will give guys in CA an option other than the Gen IV 5.3 or 6.2.

The A2 runs two HD cables directly into the TC. At the other end they attach to a steel shifter assembly Advance supplies. We don't have issues with the shift cables but the first few times you try and shift into 4 low can be a PITA. The Atlas is a gear driven TC unlike the 241 which is chain driven. You need to know how get an Atlas in gear but after they break in and loosen up it gets better.

We work with a few shops in WA and OR but no installers yet.

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post #239 of 420 Old 12-23-2016, 01:22 PM
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The stock 241J actually does a good job even with the 6.2's. The 2012+ 241 automatic TC's are not compatible with our swap due to the female input on the TC. With the Atlas 2 twin stick you get front wheel drive and 2 wheel drive low. I do not recommend the A4 or ratios lower than 3:1 unless you want to crawl. You must remember the 6l80 has a 4:1 low which is the same ratio as the 241OR low ratio so you are not losing much. Going with a 4:1 TC and 4:1 first gear(the 8l90 is even lower) reduces wheel speed so running in mud, sand or snow is difficult; this is a 16:1 ratio vs a stock Rubicon which has about 11:1. Add in the torque of the V8 and most guys are better off with a 3:1 ratio TC.

Yes the rule is the engine or engine family must be the same year or newer than the vehicle. Hopefully this Gen V 5.3 will give guys in CA an option other than the Gen IV 5.3 or 6.2.

The A2 runs two HD cables directly into the TC. At the other end they attach to a steel shifter assembly Advance supplies. We don't have issues with the shift cables but the first few times you try and shift into 4 low can be a PITA. The Atlas is a gear driven TC unlike the 241 which is chain driven. You need to know how get an Atlas in gear but after they break in and loosen up it gets better.
.
Thank you for me kind reply and helping me piece it all together.

The rest of the puzzle, is that I am on 37s with 4.56 gears. This is a bit high for the 3.6, but my math says should cruise great with the V8 and the 8L90. So I want that for freeway cruising. The goal is to be able to cruise at 75 to the rocks and then crawl over them with very little skinny pedal.

I do want to crawl. I have never run an automatic Jeep before so I don't have perspective. My current Jeep in a manual with the 2.7 case. The crawl ratio is not sufficient. My CJ runs a crawl ratio of about 70:1, and it is perfect. But I don't know how to translate that to an auto.

My math showed the Atlas with the 3.8 ratio would be about perfect. I am I have run Atlas in direct to case twin stick form before, so I know what to expect. My concern is the stock Tcase 2.7 will not really idle down over the rocks.

So the big question is helping me understand the dynamics of an auto and ratios for my application.

Seems like the 6.2 is the way to go then, as the 5.3 isn't a huge jump over the 3.6 for all the trouble and expense?


Thanks again for spending the time here.

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post #240 of 420 Old 12-23-2016, 01:45 PM
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Mitch and Joey playing around in the shop again. This is our first Gen V L83 5.3 start up. It sounds strong and with high compression and CVVT I think it may make up for the lack of torque the Gen IV 5.3 has in heavy JK's. Advantages of the Gen V 5.3 may be low cost, regular gas and good mid range torque for heavy JK's. Hopefully we'll have one on the road shortly till now most of our Gen V customers went with the 6.2. The Gen IV 6.0 is one of my favorite engines and I hope this makes an appropriate substitute for newer JK's and JK's in California.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymga...ature=youtu.be

That thing sounds SICK! Can't wait to see the final numbers for that conversion - I think I have a new favorite swap plan...what installer is near Akron/Cleveland/Columbus Ohio?

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post #241 of 420 Old 12-23-2016, 01:48 PM
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We now have a larger shop at 3045 N Lamb Blvd LV, NV 89115. We have a few installers around the country contact the office for more information.

Manual transmissions are becoming rare, with the advances in the automatics the manual is at a disadvantage. Starting with the Gen IV truck engines GM began to phase out manual transmissions, while they can be supported they require a custom tune. The LS3 can support a manual transmission with the OE tune but the 4WD Tremec is not cheap, the NVG 4500 works okay but is a bit clunky. The NSG370 actually works well with a 5.3 Gen IV engine.

In general stock axles hold up well if you don't drive like a Gorilla or abuse your JK. I have the original D44's in my JKUR with 80,000 miles and no problem. For tires above 35" you want to upgrade the drive shafts and possibly the axles depending on the application.
Thanks for the info - I'm trying to warm-up to the idea of an automatic...I think I need to test drive one those beasts to get there. Anyway to add paddle shifters to a JK, lol?

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post #242 of 420 Old 12-23-2016, 09:39 PM
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Thank you for me kind reply and helping me piece it all together.

The rest of the puzzle, is that I am on 37s with 4.56 gears. This is a bit high for the 3.6, but my math says should cruise great with the V8 and the 8L90. So I want that for freeway cruising. The goal is to be able to cruise at 75 to the rocks and then crawl over them with very little skinny pedal.

I do want to crawl. I have never run an automatic Jeep before so I don't have perspective. My current Jeep in a manual with the 2.7 case. The crawl ratio is not sufficient. My CJ runs a crawl ratio of about 70:1, and it is perfect. But I don't know how to translate that to an auto.

My math showed the Atlas with the 3.8 ratio would be about perfect. I am I have run Atlas in direct to case twin stick form before, so I know what to expect. My concern is the stock Tcase 2.7 will not really idle down over the rocks.

So the big question is helping me understand the dynamics of an auto and ratios for my application.

Seems like the 6.2 is the way to go then, as the 5.3 isn't a huge jump over the 3.6 for all the trouble and expense?


Thanks again for spending the time here.
In general, the torque converter of the automatic is going to give you a bit of an artificial crawl ratio allowing you to run higher gearing and get the same results, so a 40:1 or so ratio on the automatic is going to feel about the same 70:1 crawl ratio from the manual transmission. Also, with the automatic, you can drop it in 1st gear low range and if you find yourself needing to go slower just apply the brakes and use the gas to power through them.

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post #243 of 420 Old 12-24-2016, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MoTech View Post
We now have a larger shop at 3045 N Lamb Blvd LV, NV 89115. We have a few installers around the country contact the office for more information.

Manual transmissions are becoming rare, with the advances in the automatics the manual is at a disadvantage. Starting with the Gen IV truck engines GM began to phase out manual transmissions, while they can be supported they require a custom tune. The LS3 can support a manual transmission with the OE tune but the 4WD Tremec is not cheap, the NVG 4500 works okay but is a bit clunky. The NSG370 actually works well with a 5.3 Gen IV engine.

In general stock axles hold up well if you don't drive like a Gorilla or abuse your JK. I have the original D44's in my JKUR with 80,000 miles and no problem. For tires above 35" you want to upgrade the drive shafts and possibly the axles depending on the application.
I know I not alone on this, but for myself if I wanted an automatic I would have bought a vehicle with one already in it. I specifically bought my vehicle because it has a manual transmission. And when I do come around to having a V8 conversion performed, I will be looking for one that has a manual transmission.

Manual may be becoming rare, but not everyone wants an automatic. And you can sing the praises of automatics as well and yet not everyone wants an automatic.

Every one of your write ups here have been centered on automatics, which is fine and it's your business. However I would like to see is a conversion write up that you have done with a manual transmission because not everyone want's an automatic.

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post #244 of 420 Old 12-24-2016, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
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I know I not alone on this, but for myself if I wanted an automatic I would have bought a vehicle with one already in it. I specifically bought my vehicle because it has a manual transmission. And when I do come around to having a V8 conversion performed, I will be looking for one that has a manual transmission.

Manual may be becoming rare, but not everyone wants an automatic. And you can sing the praises of automatics as well and yet not everyone wants an automatic.

Every one of your write ups here have been centered on automatics, which is fine and it's your business. However I would like to see is a conversion write up that you have done with a manual transmission because not everyone want's an automatic.
I will try and get a manual build up, the last one we did was many months ago. They run like a stock manual JK with more power. The reality is manufacturers put out what the market dictates and as automatic transmissions get better and better they are outperforming the manuals so we are seeing less manuals.

I grew up on muscle cars and learned to drive on a stick so I am very fond of them also. Most modern automatics have a lower first gear along with torque multiplication from the converter as well as a taller overdrive than the manual. There has been a great leap in technology in automatic transmissions while there can only be so much in a manual. The new GM 7-speed manual is getting more diverse gearing. With adaptive learning, launch control, manual modes, etc the automatic is very different than it was years ago.

GM did not put a manual transmission behind the Gen 4 V8 truck engines and it looks like they're not going to put them behind the Gen 5 either. Manual swaps can still be done but you're not going to be running the OE calibrations.

One thing to remember with a 2.7 transfer case is when combined with a 4:1 first gear of a 6 or 8 speed GM transmission you end up with virtually the same ratio as a stock Rubicon which has a 4:1 ratio in the transfer case you're not losing anything. In fact you're gaining a ton of torque from the V8 with more firing pulses per revolution so in the end it feels like even a lower ratio than it is.

I have nothing against manual transmissions and if you want one by all means get one there are options out there. I drove 5.3 6 speed manual JK around for a couple of days recently and my commute to and from work is stop and go traffic so I can tell you that I missed the automatic. When I was younger I remember driving my 69 Z28 with a heavy duty clutch from the valley to Torrance in stop-and-go traffic when I got there I think one leg is shorter than the other but I thought that was cool :-)

There are specific areas where the manual is better than the automatic such as trying to rock yourself out of snow or climbing a hill when you need to disengage drive rapidly if the front and gets light and you have chance of going over. It used to be manuals were more efficient than automatics with less drag and less heat but since the mid 2,000's they have similar efficiency and miles per gallon to the automatic.

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post #245 of 420 Old 12-25-2016, 01:21 PM
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I will try and get a manual build up, the last one we did was many months ago. They run like a stock manual JK with more power. The reality is manufacturers put out what the market dictates and as automatic transmissions get better and better they are outperforming the manuals so we are seeing less manuals.

I grew up on muscle cars and learned to drive on a stick so I am very fond of them also. Most modern automatics have a lower first gear along with torque multiplication from the converter as well as a taller overdrive than the manual. There has been a great leap in technology in automatic transmissions while there can only be so much in a manual. The new GM 7-speed manual is getting more diverse gearing. With adaptive learning, launch control, manual modes, etc the automatic is very different than it was years ago.

GM did not put a manual transmission behind the Gen 4 V8 truck engines and it looks like they're not going to put them behind the Gen 5 either. Manual swaps can still be done but you're not going to be running the OE calibrations.

One thing to remember with a 2.7 transfer case is when combined with a 4:1 first gear of a 6 or 8 speed GM transmission you end up with virtually the same ratio as a stock Rubicon which has a 4:1 ratio in the transfer case you're not losing anything. In fact you're gaining a ton of torque from the V8 with more firing pulses per revolution so in the end it feels like even a lower ratio than it is.

I have nothing against manual transmissions and if you want one by all means get one there are options out there. I drove 5.3 6 speed manual JK around for a couple of days recently and my commute to and from work is stop and go traffic so I can tell you that I missed the automatic. When I was younger I remember driving my 69 Z28 with a heavy duty clutch from the valley to Torrance in stop-and-go traffic when I got there I think one leg is shorter than the other but I thought that was cool :-)

There are specific areas where the manual is better than the automatic such as trying to rock yourself out of snow or climbing a hill when you need to disengage drive rapidly if the front and gets light and you have chance of going over. It used to be manuals were more efficient than automatics with less drag and less heat but since the mid 2,000's they have similar efficiency and miles per gallon to the automatic.
I appreciate you response, however again you are singing the praises of an automatic to a person who does not want nor care for one. I understand your position and respect it, but repeating what you've already stated is getting a little old.

I do hope you put out a write up on a manual conversion. It would be nice to see.

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post #246 of 420 Old 12-29-2016, 06:15 AM
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Hi Robbie,

Great to see the work on the gen V motors, I have been holding off on the gen IV ls swap since my wife's Tahoe has had the oil consumption problem, and the 6.0 was harder to get. Have a lead on a local 2015 5.3 from a Silverado.
1. The tranny must be also from a gen V motor? Same year preferred?
2. For the gen V you run the GM accessories?
3. Running skinny 34's and don't do much off-roading, can I still go with the six speed which is behind the 5.3, are the 8l80's for the 6.2's? We traded the oil eating Tahoe for a new Grand, and it's 8 spd is nice behind the 3.6, but I think I prefer a 6l80.

Btw the aluminum radiator is working well, let us see a vid on the installed 5.3, thanks!
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post #247 of 420 Old 12-29-2016, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mjp83 View Post
Hi Robbie,

Great to see the work on the gen V motors, I have been holding off on the gen IV ls swap since my wife's Tahoe has had the oil consumption problem, and the 6.0 was harder to get. Have a lead on a local 2015 5.3 from a Silverado.
1. The tranny must be also from a gen V motor? Same year preferred?
2. For the gen V you run the GM accessories?
3. Running skinny 34's and don't do much off-roading, can I still go with the six speed which is behind the 5.3, are the 8l80's for the 6.2's? We traded the oil eating Tahoe for a new Grand, and it's 8 spd is nice behind the 3.6, but I think I prefer a 6l80.

Btw the aluminum radiator is working well, let us see a vid on the installed 5.3, thanks!
1. The Gen V 5.3 can run a 2010+ 6l80, the 8l80 is a Gen V transmission.
2. the Gen V engines do not run a PS pump, we make a bracket to fit the Pentstar JK PS pump. The compressor and alternator are GM.
3. 34's and 4:10's are a good combination with the 5.3.

MoTech
725-502-8507

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post #248 of 420 Old 01-02-2017, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by MoTech View Post
1. Yes we can support the 2012+ bumpshifter in an 07' but the 12' shifter does not fit into the 07' console. You will need a 2011+ center console. Unfortunately Chrysler has raised the price on the console components so much it will run $800-$1,000 to purchase all new parts. This includes the front and rear console sections, the lid, cup holders, etc.... As far as the console goes look for a take out from a guy who installed a Tuffy or other console. I had a customer get a whole console assembly from a 12' for $75 off eBay.


For the manual to automatic you will need two shift cables, one is for the transmission and the other the key interlock. An automatic brake pedal, the pedal is optional but we like to replace it. No hardware is required as the same pin and clip hold it in. The sled which is the metal plate under the shifter assembly, fortunately these parts are inexpensive from Chrysler.

2&3. No I would run the stock cluster and PCM. Your PCM does not have a C4 connector for transmission control but it is not a problem, our interface controls the reverse lights, neutral safety, etc.

4. Depends on what engine you run and what suspension you have. If you lift a JK with stock control arms the rear driveshaft gets shorter and we already move the TC back about 1". We do have a reduced length TC adapter and with stock suspension you may get way with stock shafts,. The original 5.3 JKU we did in 2009 is still running the stock JK shafts with 130,000 miles. If running a 6.0 or larger engine with larger tires I would upgrade the shafts. In that case we can have shafts built for you at a reasonable cost. Normally we run a 1350 rear and 1350 or 1310 front CV.
I have a 2007 with a tuffy console, all I would need for bumpshift is the shifter from 2012 up, correct?
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post #249 of 420 Old 01-02-2017, 07:27 PM Thread Starter
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We can support the bumpshiter in any year JK. If fitting a bumpshifter in an early JK the cable end is different. We can help you mod the cable end too work.

With a stock 2007-10 JK the whole console needs to be replaced, in an 11' the bumpshifter bolts right in. Not sure if the Tuffy console is the same for early and late JK's but I know we have done many.
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post #250 of 420 Old 01-02-2017, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjim01 View Post
Thanks for the info - I'm trying to warm-up to the idea of an automatic...I think I need to test drive one those beasts to get there. Anyway to add paddle shifters to a JK, lol?
If I get time next week I'm putting the srt8 grand Cherokee steering wheel in my wrangler. It has the same radio/dash controls along with paddle shifters

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