Need help with electrical gremlin - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
 
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post #1 of 12 Old 11-10-2010, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
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Need help with electrical gremlin

Symptoms:
My head lights, tail lights, parking lights, and dash lights keep flashing, no turn signals, and no wiper function.
Horn works, radio etc works. Even emergency flashers work. Engine runs fine.

Is it the TIPM or the clock spring?

Background:
I installed an inverter, heated seats and a compressor utilizing:
100A circuit breaker feeding a solenoid.
Solenoid gets signal from J8 (heated seats)
I did not put a diode in to "protect" the can-bus, so I figure this is the culprit.

I have completely disconnected this from the wiring by removing the wires to the battery and the J8 circuit.
I have disconnected the battery - several times including overnight - charged the battery (original OEM) but the symptoms persist.

What do y'all think, TIPM or Clockspring? I would prefer to only have to replace one.

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Originally Posted by STUPIDFACE View Post
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post #2 of 12 Old 11-10-2010, 11:46 AM
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DISCLAIMER: I am NOT any kind of electrical expert.

I am going only off of my run in with a similar situation.

I had a TJ that went bananas after wheeling in mud/water and it ended up being a ground wire on the back of the headlight assy. I unscrewed it, cleaned it, the tightened it back up and all was well. It seems that many electrical problems come from a bad ground somewhere. Dont know if that is your issue or not but while you wait for a response, I would suggest looking through as many ground connections as you can find. Just a suggestion....hope this helps.

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post #3 of 12 Old 11-10-2010, 11:49 AM
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Clock spring shouldn't have anything to do with those symptoms.

Why diode for what can bus signal, to the fuse slot for the heated seats? There should be no CAN on just a power circuit. It would be like an output, such as between the TIPM and the headlights (which is pulse width modulation, not CAN), or between modules (CAN).

Off the top of my head, and I'm no Jeep technician, I'd say the TIPM is crap. It has something to do with all of those circuits I believe. Mine was replaced because the driver's door switch wouldn't operate the dome light! It's tied into the electrical system very heavily, and the likeliness of you having a bad headlight switch/circuit, wiper switch/circuit, brake switch/circuit, etc, etc is pretty slim, but they all share a common source which is the TIPM.

Again, I'm no Jeep tech...

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Last edited by Goodysgotacuda; 11-10-2010 at 11:52 AM.
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post #4 of 12 Old 11-10-2010, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodysgotacuda View Post
Clock spring shouldn't have anything to do with those symptoms.

Why diode for what can bus signal, to the fuse slot for the heated seats? There should be no CAN on just a power circuit. It would be like an output, such as between the TIPM and the headlights (which is pulse width modulation, not CAN), or between modules (CAN).

Off the top of my head, and I'm no Jeep technician, I'd say the TIPM is crap. It has something to do with all of those circuits I believe. Mine was replaced because the driver's door switch wouldn't operate the dome light! It's tied into the electrical system very heavily, and the likeliness of you having a bad headlight switch/circuit, wiper switch/circuit, brake switch/circuit, etc, etc is pretty slim, but they all share a common source which is the TIPM.

Again, I'm no Jeep tech...
I'd expect it is the TIPM. I have a "similar" issue but it's off and on and only the rear lights. I have a spare TIPM for when it starts acting up again, it's been driving me nuts.

To answer Goodys comment, no it's not the CAN bus that is damaged and the diode does NOT protect the CAN bus, what happens is relays/solenoid are as you know just mechanical switches, but these switches are controlled by a coil, coils build up energy and when you shut them off that stored energy needs to go somewhere, so it ends up back feeding the electrical system it is connected to, in the larger solenoids (those used for battery isolation, snow plows, utility beds.....) I've seen reverse voltage spikes as high as -300 volts DC. It's only a matter of milliseconds (chances are you won't catch it on a digital multi meter, you really need a scope) but it's enough to cause damage to the sensitive electronic components found in today's vehicles. Standard practice is to install a recirculation diode on the control terminals of the solenoid, this way the power is slowly dissipated back through the solenoid and not through the electrical system. It doesn't eliminate the spikes but it does significant reduce them to much safer levels. These diodes are just your typical $0.05 diode available all over.

When you buy a relay/solenoid made specifically for modern automotive they have this built in. But many people buy the cheaper alternatives such as old Ford starter solenoids, or lawnmower starter solenoids because they are cheaper and easier to find. They aren't bad but they need the recirculation diode put on them.

Even if you are going strait to the batter or to a separate fused/relay circuit that you think has no connection to anything ALWAYS use a recirculation diode.


The headlight controls go from the stalk to the instrument panel then to the TIPM via a CAN message. You can check the wires from the stalk to the IPC pretty easily, but unless you know what you are looking for it's hard to monitor the CAN bus. Do your brake lights work? The peddle is hardwired to the center brake light and to the TIPM.


Here is a good explanation of how to put the diode on:

http://www.gmupfitter.com/publicat/b...letin86_D2.pdf

Last edited by Taxx; 11-10-2010 at 12:14 PM.
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post #5 of 12 Old 11-10-2010, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for reaffirming what I thought it was. TIPM ordered.

For those of you who have replaced one, does the computer need to be "flashed" after the TIPM is replaced? My nearest dealer is ~150 miles away, and I don't really want to drive/tow it there in it's current condition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STUPIDFACE View Post
I have 2 legs, but 3 knees....right knee.....left knee.....wee knee....
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post #6 of 12 Old 11-10-2010, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babiehughie View Post
Thanks for reaffirming what I thought it was. TIPM ordered.

For those of you who have replaced one, does the computer need to be "flashed" after the TIPM is replaced? My nearest dealer is ~150 miles away, and I don't really want to drive/tow it there in it's current condition.
Yes it needs to be feflashed once its installed in your jeep. your jeep will run and start once you install it. My dealer told me it woul donly run unprogrammed for like 20 miles but i drove it for 2 weeks and it was fine
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post #7 of 12 Old 11-10-2010, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taxx View Post
When you buy a relay/solenoid made specifically for modern automotive they have this built in. But many people buy the cheaper alternatives such as old Ford starter solenoids, or lawnmower starter solenoids because they are cheaper and easier to find. They aren't bad but they need the recirculation diode put on them.

Even if you are going strait to the batter or to a separate fused/relay circuit that you think has no connection to anything ALWAYS use a recirculation diode.

Here is a good explanation of how to put the diode on:

http://www.gmupfitter.com/publicat/b...letin86_D2.pdf
Thanks for the link. This is exactly what I was planning on doing, but got ahead of myself and hadn't done it yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STUPIDFACE View Post
I have 2 legs, but 3 knees....right knee.....left knee.....wee knee....
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post #8 of 12 Old 11-10-2010, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Dirty View Post
Yes it needs to be feflashed once its installed in your jeep. your jeep will run and start once you install it. My dealer told me it woul donly run unprogrammed for like 20 miles but i drove it for 2 weeks and it was fine
I doubt the dealer even knows the real answer. Chances are it has a base/default level of software in it that "works" but might be missing some features for your particular vehicle.
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post #9 of 12 Old 11-10-2010, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babiehughie View Post
Thanks for the link. This is exactly what I was planning on doing, but got ahead of myself and hadn't done it yet.
You can get a whole pack of them from Radio Shack for $0.99. Just go in there and tell them you need a 1N4004. 1N4001 should work too.

edit: I think a whole pack is quantity 2, kind of a rip but you only need one
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post #10 of 12 Old 12-03-2010, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
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Problem not with TIPM!

Received my new TIPM, installed it and then took my Jeep to the dealership to "re-flash". Dealership could not re-flash due to multiple DTC's - U0161, U1008, U1149, and U113B (according to service sheet). Took the Jeep home and put the old TIPM back in and returned to dealership.

Dealership found that the compass module (part #4671918AG) was shorted internally and had caused and communication condition between other modules/components on the LIN BUS.

This also burned out the cluster-instrument panel (part #5172161AE).

So, I have a very slightly used TIPM for sale if anyone needs it.
Damn I hate these computer driven electronics!

Quote:
Originally Posted by STUPIDFACE View Post
I have 2 legs, but 3 knees....right knee.....left knee.....wee knee....
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post #11 of 12 Old 12-06-2010, 12:20 PM
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So did you have to buy a new instrument panel?
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post #12 of 12 Old 12-06-2010, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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Yep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STUPIDFACE View Post
I have 2 legs, but 3 knees....right knee.....left knee.....wee knee....
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