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post #1 of 17 Old 06-18-2014, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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headlight hell

i bought my first jeep and i love it but who ever had it before me tried to upgrade on a budget and im paying for it the one problem is the delta headlights they dim and get really bright and the passenger light goes completely out i looked at the wiring it all looks like it has good connection when i bought it the battery was corroded pretty bad and ive had an eas light on once any
help would be appreciated
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post #2 of 17 Old 06-18-2014, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizabang View Post
i bought my first jeep and i love it but who ever had it before me tried to upgrade on a budget and im paying for it the one problem is the delta headlights they dim and get really bright and the passenger light goes completely out i looked at the wiring it all looks like it has good connection when i bought it the battery was corroded pretty bad and ive had an eas light on once any
help would be appreciated
What would help many of us to help you:
  • Specific details - details never hurt
  • Year and model of Jeep
  • Pictures - we love pictures

What would help many of us enjoy helping you:
  • Capitalization
  • Punctuation
  • Pictures - we love pictures
  • Specific details - details never hurt

NOTES:
  • Punctuation is the difference between knowing your shit, and knowing you're shit
  • Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse, and helping your uncle jack off a horse

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post #3 of 17 Old 06-18-2014, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ExWrench View Post


NOTES:
  • Punctuation is the difference between knowing your shit, and knowing you're shit
  • Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse, and helping your uncle jack off a horse
Some might call that unhelpful or maybe even hurtful, but I say it's funny as Hell and I'm "borrowing" this part!

OP: Sounds like a bad/corroded ground or wire. Corrosion can run up a wire under the insulation and is hard to track without the right tools.
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post #4 of 17 Old 06-19-2014, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by dunnk View Post
Some might call that unhelpful or maybe even hurtful . . .
I'm of the opinion that those "some" would be either horribly misguided or somewhat stupid.
However; I never assume that I know everything, and I'm always eager to learn new things.
With absolute sincerity, I request that you explain how a rational person with critical thinking skills could be one of these "some".

As for helpful, OP stated: "any help would be appreciated"
My reply was to:
  • help him/her get the complete needed information ASAP
  • help him/her decide to write like a big boy/girl (instead of that lazy ass crap)

As for hurtful: DUDE, SERIOUSLY?

PLEASE BUY AMERICAN SO I DON'T HAVE TO LEARN CHINESE
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post #5 of 17 Old 06-19-2014, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExWrench View Post
I'm of the opinion that those "some" would be either horribly misguided or somewhat stupid.
However; I never assume that I know everything, and I'm always eager to learn new things.
With absolute sincerity, I request that you explain how a rational person with critical thinking skills could be one of these "some".

As for helpful, OP stated: "any help would be appreciated"
My reply was to:
  • help him/her get the complete needed information ASAP
  • help him/her decide to write like a big boy/girl (instead of that lazy ass crap)

As for hurtful: DUDE, SERIOUSLY?
Just to be clear, the lime green, orange, red, and fuchsia text is considered "big boy/girl" writing?

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Originally Posted by bsack View Post
OKAY FUCKMOUTH.
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post #6 of 17 Old 06-19-2014, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by nlgrav182 View Post
Just to be clear, the lime green, orange, red, and fuchsia text is considered "big boy/girl" writing?
No, the punctuation and capitalization is considered "big boy/girl" writing (in my opinion).

The multiple colors were implemented to clarify multiple points in response to a post.

The lime green just makes me happy (especially if it pisses you off for free ).

Opinions vary, and you're more than welcome to all of yours.

PLEASE BUY AMERICAN SO I DON'T HAVE TO LEARN CHINESE
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post #7 of 17 Old 06-19-2014, 09:30 AM
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OP: I have Delta headlights on my '13 JK with no problems, the problem you're describing sounds like it could be a few things:
1. Corroded wires as suggested
2. Alternator going bad
3. Battery going bad

You can have #2 and #3 tested at most auto parts stores. Which I would do to eliminate them from the equation.

As for the rest of the thread, glad to see that the writer of the Chicago Manual of Style decided to pay a visit.
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post #8 of 17 Old 06-19-2014, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleshharrower View Post
OP: I have Delta headlights on my '13 JK with no problems, the problem you're describing sounds like it could be a few things:
1. Corroded wires as suggested
2. Alternator going bad
3. Battery going bad

.

I also have Delta quadbars. If you think those are budget, try using some stock headlights. I have had zero issues with Delta, but they are a pretty reputable company. Try reaching out to them !

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post #9 of 17 Old 06-19-2014, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExWrench View Post
I'm of the opinion that those "some" would be either horribly misguided or somewhat stupid.
However; I never assume that I know everything, and I'm always eager to learn new things.
With absolute sincerity, I request that you explain how a rational person with critical thinking skills could be one of these "some".

As for helpful, OP stated: "any help would be appreciated"
My reply was to:
  • help him/her get the complete needed information ASAP
  • help him/her decide to write like a big boy/girl (instead of that lazy ass crap)

As for hurtful: DUDE, SERIOUSLY?
without reading it, and just scrolling through a thread. this is by far the happiest looking thread on here !

and by happy, I really meant gay, but that would not be politically correct !

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post #10 of 17 Old 06-19-2014, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExWrench View Post
I'm of the opinion that those "some" would be either horribly misguided or somewhat stupid.
However; I never assume that I know everything, and I'm always eager to learn new things.
With absolute sincerity, I request that you explain how a rational person with critical thinking skills could be one of these "some".

As for helpful, OP stated: "any help would be appreciated"
My reply was to:
  • help him/her get the complete needed information ASAP
  • help him/her decide to write like a big boy/girl (instead of that lazy ass crap)

As for hurtful: DUDE, SERIOUSLY?
Holy crap man, come back a detent from full afterburner and release tension the catapult! By that I meant someone certainly more politically correct and sensitive than I! There was more than a little sarcasm in those few lines. I laughed myself silly over your post. Totally appreciated it even. Really gonna use that last line in quotes often!
By the way, read through your mods, damn good work!

Last edited by dunnk; 06-19-2014 at 08:53 PM.
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post #11 of 17 Old 06-19-2014, 10:11 PM
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If the Delta headlights are getting driven by the OEM headlight wiring via pigtail adapters (short cables to adapt H13 to H4 bulbs), you probably have a loose or bad pigtail causing the one bulb to go out intermittently. You might be able to unplug/re-plug the adapters tightly and wrap with electrical tape to solve that problem.

The pigtails -- or rather the thin-gauge OEM wiring -- is also probably the cause of the dim light.

I would suggest replacing the pigtails with a new wiring harness that takes power from the battery and only uses the OEM wiring to activate relays. The easiest way to do this is to get a Truck-Lite 98630 LED Headlamp Anti-Flicker Module Harness (around $40, you just need one) and a Putco 230004HW H4 100W Heavy Duty Harness and Relay kit (around $30). The Truck-Lite anti-flicker harness is needed to eliminate noise from the JK CAN BUS signals that could cause the relays to chatter, and also converts the OEM H13 connector to H4 used by the Delta (and other replacement headlights). The Putco harness includes all the wiring, relays and fuses to run your headlights off the battery.

If you already have a replacement harness for the headlights, then you've got loose or corroded wires somewhere. The most likely place is at the battery terminal. But vibration can cause any of the connections to fail, or wear through insulation causing intermittent shorts.

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post #12 of 17 Old 06-19-2014, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BumpInTheRoad View Post
If the Delta headlights are getting driven by the OEM headlight wiring via pigtail adapters (short cables to adapt H13 to H4 bulbs), you probably have a loose or bad pigtail causing the one bulb to go out intermittently. You might be able to unplug/re-plug the adapters tightly and wrap with electrical tape to solve that problem.

The pigtails -- or rather the thin-gauge OEM wiring -- is also probably the cause of the dim light.

I would suggest replacing the pigtails with a new wiring harness that takes power from the battery and only uses the OEM wiring to activate relays. The easiest way to do this is to get a Truck-Lite 98630 LED Headlamp Anti-Flicker Module Harness (around $40, you just need one) and a Putco 230004HW H4 100W Heavy Duty Harness and Relay kit (around $30). The Truck-Lite anti-flicker harness is needed to eliminate noise from the JK CAN BUS signals that could cause the relays to chatter, and also converts the OEM H13 connector to H4 used by the Delta (and other replacement headlights). The Putco harness includes all the wiring, relays and fuses to run your headlights off the battery.

If you already have a replacement harness for the headlights, then you've got loose or corroded wires somewhere. The most likely place is at the battery terminal. But vibration can cause any of the connections to fail, or wear through insulation causing intermittent shorts.
OP - THIS ^^^
The Truck-Lite 98630 will eliminate the voltage flutter from the pulse-width-modulation (PWM) control of the CANBUS.
The Putco 230004HW will deliver clean battery power with amps to spare for any legal headlights (and a few others).
There are other ways to accomplish the same thing, but BumpInTheRoad's solution is reliable and cost-effective.
Please note that BumpInTheRoad's use of punctuation and capitalization makes the communication effective (easy to follow).


Quote:
Originally Posted by dunnk View Post
Holy crap man, come back a detent from full afterburner and release tension the catapult! By that I meant someone certainly more politically correct and sensitive than I! There was more than a little sarcasm in those few lines. I laughed myself silly over your post. Totally appreciated it even. Really gonna use that last line in quotes often!
By the way, read through your mods, damn good work!
Yeah, sorry . . . for maybe the first time ever on JKO, my sarcasm barometer was off. Rare, but not impossible.
Spent a day auditing a plating and coating vendor, and my mind was still spinning with what I had to get done today.
I was so wrapped up in "clear, concise, and unambiguous communication mode" that you slid that one right by me.
Glad you enjoyed my thread, and thank you!

Oh and, for the record, that's a few notches from "full afterburner" for me. When I go full-on apeshit, it borders on epic.

PLEASE BUY AMERICAN SO I DON'T HAVE TO LEARN CHINESE
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post #13 of 17 Old 06-19-2014, 11:01 PM
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Oh and, for the record, that's a few notches from "full afterburner" for me. When I go full-on apeshit, it borders on epic.
Epic is so last year. The new word is Herculean.

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post #14 of 17 Old 06-20-2014, 08:19 AM
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Since when does the CANbus control PWM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExWrench View Post

The Truck-Lite 98630 will eliminate the voltage flutter from the pulse-width-modulation (PWM) control of the CANBUS.



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post #15 of 17 Old 06-22-2014, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Panamon Creel View Post
Since when does the CANbus control PWM?
The Pulse Width Modulation is what causes the lights to appear dim at times.
The CANBUS not only powers up components, but also communicates with them to determine what is working properly and what isn't. The voltage can modulate between 4.5-12.5VDC causing 12V relays to chatter and drop out. The addition of a capacitor inline will smooth out the modulation (peaks and dips).
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post #16 of 17 Old 06-23-2014, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
The Pulse Width Modulation is what causes the lights to appear dim at times.
The CANBUS not only powers up components, but also communicates with them to determine what is working properly and what isn't. The voltage can modulate between 4.5-12.5VDC causing 12V relays to chatter and drop out. The addition of a capacitor inline will smooth out the modulation (peaks and dips).
Firstly CANbus is just a mailman and controls nothing outside of communications between control modules like PCM, TIPM,...etc. It receives a package from one control module and sends it to the destination control module(s) quickly and securely. That's all it does, no more no less.
PWM to the lights is controlled by the TIPM and not by the CANbus. PWM is used to regulate the Voltage supplied to the lights in order to maximize light bulb life, avoid change in light output when high current draw devices switch on and off (e.g rad fan) and to achieve different light output levels for DRL. This PWM can cause issues with flicker, relay chatter and component wear for items not designed to handle PWM. Capacitors are used to smooth out the PWM to useable levels.
Furthermore the TIPM acts as an electronic fuse and employs current sensing to protect the electrical circuit from overloading but also to detect broken circuits and burned bulbs. Over or undercurrent can cause the TIPM to go through check routines turning the circuit off and on to a complete shut down of the circuit if it doesn't like what it "sees". Load resistors are used to resolve TIPM current sensing issues (load resistor only for undercurrent, in combination with a relay for overcurrent).
The only time CANbus comes into this scenario is if a CEL is being set or a "bulb out" message is being sent by the TIPM to the dash module.


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post #17 of 17 Old 06-25-2014, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BumpInTheRoad View Post
If the Delta headlights are getting driven by the OEM headlight wiring via pigtail adapters (short cables to adapt H13 to H4 bulbs), you probably have a loose or bad pigtail causing the one bulb to go out intermittently. You might be able to unplug/re-plug the adapters tightly and wrap with electrical tape to solve that problem.

The pigtails -- or rather the thin-gauge OEM wiring -- is also probably the cause of the dim light.

I would suggest replacing the pigtails with a new wiring harness that takes power from the battery and only uses the OEM wiring to activate relays. The easiest way to do this is to get a Truck-Lite 98630 LED Headlamp Anti-Flicker Module Harness (around $40, you just need one) and a Putco 230004HW H4 100W Heavy Duty Harness and Relay kit (around $30). The Truck-Lite anti-flicker harness is needed to eliminate noise from the JK CAN BUS signals that could cause the relays to chatter, and also converts the OEM H13 connector to H4 used by the Delta (and other replacement headlights). The Putco harness includes all the wiring, relays and fuses to run your headlights off the battery.

If you already have a replacement harness for the headlights, then you've got loose or corroded wires somewhere. The most likely place is at the battery terminal. But vibration can cause any of the connections to fail, or wear through insulation causing intermittent shorts.
thank you i will start here. this is my first time on this forum or any for that matter it is also my first jeep, i didnt mean to offend when i said on a budget but the intake is made from exhaust tube and doesnt have a box or plate. i am trying to reverse what has been done and im starting with the headlights
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