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post #1 of 29 Old 11-21-2009, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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Sub Box Designs

Well i seem to have the absolute worst luck with subs.

My first set in the jeep was great, 2 10" kickers in a ported box running about 400 watts.
STOLEN

Second set i had 2 10" JL's in a bandpass box (i know i hate bandpass but i got a helluva deal). About 2 hours of listening time and the cones on both subs blew. Was only running about 200 watts to them too it was disappointing, but the guy took them back as I didn't cause the problem.

THIRD: A few weeks ago i put in a single Rockford Fosgate 12" P1 with a sony 1200 watt amp. (500 watts rms Bridged). Way too much power for the sub, but i got another helluva deal on it (paid 100 bucks for sub, amp and box) . Worked great for a week or two and then last night I wanted a little more bass, so i turned the gain from 1/4 to about 1/2. Big mistake. 10 minutes later amp goes into protection mode. Thought i blew the amp, so i hooked up another amp to the sub and nope, its just the sub. so THREE sets down.

SO what to do now?
I need bass lol i cant listen to music without it, its just not the same.
So any recommendations on what sub to run with a 500w RMS bridged to 4ohm setup?

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post #2 of 29 Old 11-21-2009, 05:42 PM
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a p2? or just turn the amp down

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post #3 of 29 Old 11-21-2009, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
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Evena P2 only take 250 watts.
Damn I think I may just need to get a new box for dual subs and run 200 watts to each RMS.

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post #4 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 12:45 AM
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Stay away from hot or fleamarket refurb buys. And if you don't like the way a bandpass sounds then your either not building it correct, wrong sub for the enclosure or both. In a single reflex bandpass I can get more spl out of a 10" woofer all day long than you can out of a 12" woofer and have better sound quality. I will not get into a knowledge battle due to the fact that it has been proven many times over. Any one that is able to blow some JL subs even with too much power in most cases should stop trying to do their own system and go to a REPUTABLE shop to have the system done. good deals are usually that way for a reason, their crap. I've overpowered subs for years for spl competitions and it takes a freaking ton of over driven power to do it, trust me we used to see just how far we could push them. We even did two power 1000's to one sub before, the real killer of speakers is distortion and it starts at the head unit, if you have to turn your head unit up to 3/4 or more to get to a desired level, you need more speakers and more power, in that order. the only true way to get more sound is through more air movement and that is due to the speakers. You get an average of a 3db gain for each speaker that you add. if you want more bass then add another sub. For size reasons you may want to look into iso loading the speakers in a "pull-pull" box design. But it really sounds like you need to cut out the floor where the storage is and do a 15" in there though a 18" would be teeth rattling to say the least. Good luck. And the reason that I say cut the storage out is so that you can do a stealth set up where no one will see the sub, and the floor cover can have cut outs and be covered in carpet and no one will be the wiser.

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post #5 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 02:22 AM Thread Starter
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The JL's blowing was not my fault, they were indeed faulty lol

The fosgate I pumped 500 RMS watts into a 150 RMS rated sub. My fault completely, but saying it is hard to overpower a sub is not real accurate in my opinion.

And the bandpass thing, sure you can get more db out of your 10" bandpass , but it won't sound like a sealed 12 (this is all my opinion of course) I have had and heard almost every setup and im just not a bandpass fan. It doesn't fit my music style. Too much boom.
I dont want to go over 12" for response reasons. I dont listen to rattle the windows rap, I listen to a lot of rock with fast beats and dont think a 15 would produce that well (at least not in the price range lol)

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post #6 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SONIC View Post
The JL's blowing was not my fault, they were indeed faulty lol

The fosgate I pumped 500 RMS watts into a 150 RMS rated sub. My fault completely, but saying it is hard to overpower a sub is not real accurate in my opinion.

And the bandpass thing, sure you can get more db out of your 10" bandpass , but it won't sound like a sealed 12 (this is all my opinion of course) I have had and heard almost every setup and im just not a bandpass fan. It doesn't fit my music style. Too much boom.
I dont want to go over 12" for response reasons. I dont listen to rattle the windows rap, I listen to a lot of rock with fast beats and dont think a 15 would produce that well (at least not in the price range lol)

I know what you mean about a sealed sub.. I am running a 10" JBL with a 400 watt Alpine.. The Sub is rated for 250 watts.. I have my gain about 50%.. I rattle the outside mirrors.. The bass isn't as strong as a ported box or a bandpass. but it sounds richer being in a a sealed box..

Have you looked at getting one of these.

http://signature.crutchfield.com/s_1...owAll=N&tp=111



* 12" 4-ohm subwoofer
* mineral-filled polypropylene cone with nitrile-butylene rubber surround
* power range: 100-500 watts RMS
* peak power handling: 1,000 watts
* frequency response: 22-200 Hz
* sensitivity: 87.15 dB
* top-mount depth: 6-5/8"
* sealed box volume: 1.125 cubic feet
* ported box volume: 1.75 cubic feet
* warranty: 1 year

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcy View Post
roll, roll, roll your joint, twist is at the end, light it up and take a puff now pass it to a friend.
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post #7 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 01:04 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah Ben, iv been looking at the W3. The frequency response is awesome.
My box is a bit small for it though.
I think im going to build a box over christmas though. mostly just for security reasons.

Im thinking im going to have it span the cargo area just behind the rear seat and in front of the wheel wells. Im thinking of maybe putting 2 down firing 10's in it.
That way all you would see is the carpeted box and nothing else. Not sure where to put the amp though. Wish the things didnd run so damn hot so i could put in IN the enclosure.

Anybody ever done that?
Bad idea i know. Hmmm maybe i can build some sort of concealed shelf for it underneath.
Something to this effect:

Anyone forsee any problems? (other than my 12 second MS paint mockup LOL)

Yes, but there's just something about him. Something around the eyes, I don't know, reminds me of... me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him.
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Last edited by SONIC; 11-22-2009 at 01:15 PM.
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post #8 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 01:39 PM
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Looks good.. How are you going to secure the box? Bolt it to the floor?

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Originally Posted by Marcy View Post
roll, roll, roll your joint, twist is at the end, light it up and take a puff now pass it to a friend.
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post #9 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
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Not sure yet. I havent really spent much time on it yet.
But there are tie down hooks in the floor directly behind the rear seat. So im thinking i can unbolt those and bolt the subs down in those existing holes. But that will only hold down one side and someone could leverage it out, so I need a way to secure the other side too.

I prefer to not drill holes in the floor as its really nothign but thin sheet metal anyway. If i have to though ill probably end up drilling 2 holes, one on each side directly above the frame. Then i'll run a threaded rod through the box, through the floor and bolt it to something solid underneath.

Its going to be quite a project, And theres a few details that i really need to figure out:

Where to put the amp?

Id REALLY like to make this fairly water resistant, as I run topless the whole summer.
Im not sure if this is possible though. Marine amplifier maybe?
Im thinking of building the box of MDF and then putting some sort of sealer on it (thompsons water seal or similar) to keep it from getting waterlogged. Maybe even lining it in plastic before i carpet it.

Making the box waterproof is easy. Keeping the amp safe is the hard part, theres nowhere in my JK that has not been soaked.

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post #10 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 02:04 PM
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Hmmm.. A marine amp is the only thing I can think also..

Maybe use a cable or something like that to secure..

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roll, roll, roll your joint, twist is at the end, light it up and take a puff now pass it to a friend.
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post #11 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 02:15 PM
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A Marine Amp under the passenger's seat with one of the Kilby panels keeping everything out of sight. I was thinking that if you built a bracket that would keep the amp snug under the seat Vs on the floor it would keep it from being submerged unless you pulled some TK kind of stuff..... The amps are so much smaller now too.... should help. You can also build something on the rear gate and cover it with something...



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post #12 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob4607 View Post
Stay away from hot or fleamarket refurb buys. And if you don't like the way a bandpass sounds then your either not building it correct, wrong sub for the enclosure or both. In a single reflex bandpass I can get more spl out of a 10" woofer all day long than you can out of a 12" woofer and have better sound quality. I will not get into a knowledge battle due to the fact that it has been proven many times over. Any one that is able to blow some JL subs even with too much power in most cases should stop trying to do their own system and go to a REPUTABLE shop to have the system done. good deals are usually that way for a reason, their crap. I've overpowered subs for years for spl competitions and it takes a freaking ton of over driven power to do it, trust me we used to see just how far we could push them. We even did two power 1000's to one sub before, the real killer of speakers is distortion and it starts at the head unit, if you have to turn your head unit up to 3/4 or more to get to a desired level, you need more speakers and more power, in that order. the only true way to get more sound is through more air movement and that is due to the speakers. You get an average of a 3db gain for each speaker that you add. if you want more bass then add another sub. For size reasons you may want to look into iso loading the speakers in a "pull-pull" box design. But it really sounds like you need to cut out the floor where the storage is and do a 15" in there though a 18" would be teeth rattling to say the least. Good luck. And the reason that I say cut the storage out is so that you can do a stealth set up where no one will see the sub, and the floor cover can have cut outs and be covered in carpet and no one will be the wiser.
Any pics of this setup? Interesting to say the least..... I could live with that, of course it would have to be waterproof/resistant... I guess some drainage holes (like on the Thomas Mfg setup) would keep the puddles out.

Last edited by Mr.RonGilbert; 11-22-2009 at 02:21 PM.
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post #13 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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Amps are smaller, but still not that small. Theres no way im springing for one of the new tiny alpines.

The kilby cover is a good idea......hmmm
I think that would prevent me from having fun though LOL I have had water halfway up my shifter before......but it guess that would kill the amp no matter where i put it :laughign:

Jeeps are such a pain in the ass LOL.
In the stang i just mounted the amp to the back of the rear seats and ran 2 12" JL's and never had a problem at all other than no cargo space. Ugh.

And the 15 in the storage area would be harder then you think, the storage are is not 15" wide. So you would have to cut out more than just the little tub, then you have to start dealing with other crap.

What you coud do is get a woods storage tub and you could probably runa 10 or a 12 in it with only a top plate welded in.

Yes, but there's just something about him. Something around the eyes, I don't know, reminds me of... me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him.
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post #14 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SONIC View Post
Jeeps are such a pain in the ass LOL.
In the stang i just mounted the amp to the back of the rear seats and ran 2 12" JL's and never had a problem at all other than no cargo space. Ugh.
I would love to see you take a stang out on some of the trails at Uwharrie...

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roll, roll, roll your joint, twist is at the end, light it up and take a puff now pass it to a friend.
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post #15 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SONIC View Post
Amps are smaller, but still not that small. Theres no way im springing for one of the new tiny alpines.
If you do it right the first time........ (I don't know if that is really what you need but figured I would take a shot anyway.... I really don't know sh!t)


This is the ticket dude...


Quote:
Originally Posted by SONIC View Post
And the 15 in the storage area would be harder then you think, the storage are is not 15" wide. So you would have to cut out more than just the little tub, then you have to start dealing with other crap.
I was thinking about going to my buddy that does fiberglass work and handing him one of those flat 12'" and pointing at the storage cubby and letting him work his magic... would still have to find a place for the amp though.

Last edited by Mr.RonGilbert; 11-22-2009 at 02:44 PM.
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post #16 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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If you do it right the first time........ (I don't know if that is really what you need but figured I would take a shot anyway.... I really don't know sh!t)


This is the ticket dude...




I was thinking about going to my buddy that does fiberglass work and handing him one of those flat 12'" and pointing at the storage cubby and letting him work his magic... would still have to find a place for the amp though.
Yeah that would be nice, I could stick it int he dash somewhere. But 600+ dollars can go toward things i am more in need of, like a bigger lift.

Yes, but there's just something about him. Something around the eyes, I don't know, reminds me of... me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him.
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post #17 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 05:08 PM
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What size is your cueent box? Who does your tuning? How is it done? That amp doesn't do 500w by the way. Sony sucks. Get a better amp. They don;t call them explodes for nothing. What size power and ground od you have going to the amp?

A simple solution: http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/produ...0&locale=en_US

A better solution is give me a realistic budget and I can find you better products for your application.
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post #18 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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I know xplods suck lol, just happens to be what came with the punch for cheap.

I have 8 gauge power and ground.
That would be a good solution, but its pricey.

I dont have a budget at the moment. Im a college student, so I'm piecing things together slowly.

Also im not looking to get competition bass here. Im looking for something with good accurate bass, with decent response that will bang when I want it to and be subdued when I dont. The xplod amp is fine for now, it pushed that fosgate to way past its limits and still sounded pretty good at 3/4 gain.

Also theres always the possibility of this getting stolen so im trying to keep from investing a ton in it. I have already had about 600 bucks worth of audio stolen.

Yes, but there's just something about him. Something around the eyes, I don't know, reminds me of... me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him.
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post #19 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indytrucks View Post
What size is your cueent box? Who does your tuning? How is it done? That amp doesn't do 500w by the way. Sony sucks. Get a better amp. They don;t call them explodes for nothing. What size power and ground od you have going to the amp?

A simple solution: http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/produ...0&locale=en_US

A better solution is give me a realistic budget and I can find you better products for your application.

That is nice....

the hard part is finding something that can handle the weather, be hard to steal (or concealed) and not be junk... need the best of both worlds.
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post #20 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 06:30 PM
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why not do the subs down firing like u said and put the amp in between them mounted to the box
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post #21 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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Thats what i have in my diagram up there, thats the current plan.

Yes, but there's just something about him. Something around the eyes, I don't know, reminds me of... me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him.
-Doc Holiday
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post #22 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 06:45 PM
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Good luck then. Hope you find something that works for you.
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post #23 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 06:53 PM
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Anybody ever done that?
Bad idea i know. Hmmm maybe i can build some sort of concealed shelf for it underneath.
Something to this effect:

Anyone forsee any problems? (other than my 12 second MS paint mockup LOL)[/QUOTE]

this is so hard to say when typing , dont build a shelf to concealed it , just mount it to the box upside down , more the likley u wont see the amp anyways , but if u can see it put a piece of wood in front just a enough to keep it from being seen , that way air still can move all around it , there is a guy who did that on here just cant think who it was
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post #24 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 07:00 PM
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here is your idea kinda , now just imagine a piece of wood in front of the amp and u would still have air flow ( thank u jkjones for the picture)
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post #25 of 29 Old 11-22-2009, 07:38 PM
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The JL Audio setup is nice as well, would still have to locate the amp somewhere.



I have one in my 05' SuperDuty and it sounds great for a single 10' powered by a Punch 300

Last edited by Mr.RonGilbert; 11-22-2009 at 07:40 PM.
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