Installed amp now TPMS system alarm - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
 
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post #1 of 25 Old 11-20-2009, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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Installed amp now TPMS system alarm

Just completed installing Alpine amplifier under steering wheel in factory location and now TPMS alarm comes on. Owners manual indicates that an electrical interference can cause the alarm. Anyone have any ideas ?!
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post #2 of 25 Old 11-20-2009, 12:41 PM
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Did you use all the factory mounting spots and factory bolts? If not I would check on the other side of where the bolt goes through it might have rubbed some wires. Also did you use the factory power, ground and remote wire?
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post #3 of 25 Old 11-21-2009, 07:52 AM Thread Starter
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Used " PAC add an amp" adapter, therefore remote and signal wires are run without impact to OEM wire harness. Had to also run 4 ga. power and ground. All wiring is correct and no pinched wires.

TPMS warning will reset and dashlight will go off sometimes, yet radio / amp. will still be on ? Tire pressures are all ok. Started have problem immediately after amp. install.
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post #4 of 25 Old 11-21-2009, 05:39 PM
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maybe loose batt terminal?

'92 YJ
'13 WK2
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post #5 of 25 Old 11-23-2009, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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I'm thinking there is some kind of electrical interference from the amp and wiring that I added.
Obviously, the TPS is wireless, any ideas where this stupid tire pressure receiver would be ?! Or, what it may look like ?
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post #6 of 25 Old 11-24-2009, 07:56 AM
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I cant find where it is all I can find is this.
WIRELESS CONTROL MODULE (WCM)

The receiver circuit for the TPM system is integrated into the WCM. for non-remote start vehicles. For factory installed remote start vehicles, the remote start antenna is external to the WCM. The WCM can also include the Remote Keyless Entry (RKE) receiver, Remote Start (if equipped), and the Sentry Key Immobilizer (SKIM) receiver. All Four receivers share a number of common components. The WCM decodes the RF signals transmitted by each of the vehicle's tire pressure sensors. The decoded information is used to determine if "warning" or "fault" conditions exist within the TPM system.

The WCM communicates with the module that controls the "TPM telltale lamp", via the vehicle bus system.

Upon detection of a warning or fault condition, the WCM will send a request to illuminate or flash the yellow TPM telltale. Also, upon detection of a warning or fault condition, the display module will send a request to sound the "chime". A chime will only be requested once per ignition cycle per warning or fault condition detected.

The WCM will store all warning and fault conditions, placard pressure values, low-pressure threshold values and low pressure threshold hysteresis values in memory that can be accessed through diagnostic communication. If new sensors are introduced to the vehicle, the data stored for the sensor being replaced will be deleted.

The WCM will store all wheel sensor ID's and locations and faults in memory that can be accessed through diagnostic communication. All other data values transmitted from each active wheel sensor (not the spare tire) shall be stored in the WCM memory.

The WCM automatically learns and stores the sensor's ID while driving "within 10 minutes continuously above 15 m.p.h. (24 Km/h)" after a sensor has been replaced.

The learning sequence will initiate when the vehicle has been stopped for more then 20 minutes. A new TPM sensor ID can also be programmed directly into the WCM by using a RKE-TPM Analyzer in conjunction with a Scan Tool. Once the new TPM sensor ID has been programmed, the RKE-TPM Analyzer can be used to update the TPMS by activating the TPM sensor.

Hope this helps
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post #7 of 25 Old 11-24-2009, 08:19 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Marshall.
Interesting !
Now if I could locate the (WCM) or wireless control module...
I am guessing it is under dash near where I have mounted the amp.
Any ideas what this thing looks like ?
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post #8 of 25 Old 11-24-2009, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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Hey Rednroll.

I thought of that and plan too, but warning light is intermittent. I checked all tire pressures at 37 psi, but it's very odd that I had no problem until 10 miles after completion of install before warning chime. Sometimes warning will reset within a few mintues. And, sometimes will stay on for miles.

BTW, any idea of acceptable tire pressure range before alarm ?
Thanks
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post #9 of 25 Old 11-24-2009, 07:07 PM
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I have a plan. Remove the new amp and give it to the friend that helped you on the installation. The light problem should return to normal.
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post #10 of 25 Old 11-24-2009, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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Hey Waterboy202 !!

LOL !
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post #11 of 25 Old 11-24-2009, 07:38 PM
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Thanks buddy!
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post #12 of 25 Old 11-25-2009, 03:15 PM
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Everything sounds great but 1 thing. If the amp will not work under the steering wheel then you are saying to move it to the rear of the vehicle and I do not think that will work either because it has to read a frequency or EMF or whatever from all 4 tires so you will not be able to move the amp far enough back to make it work if that is the problem. But I think its a great idea to at least leave it disconnected long enough to see if it is the cause of the light though. Or give it to the guy that helped you install it is seems he has a pretty good plan to use it. HA!
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post #13 of 25 Old 11-25-2009, 03:39 PM
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I gotcha. Now I see what you are saying.
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post #14 of 25 Old 11-25-2009, 05:11 PM
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would it be safe to wrap the amp in foil? I think heat may be a problem. Well here in Texas I think it would be a problem I mean we dont have great weather like them California guys or those Florida folks.
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post #15 of 25 Old 11-25-2009, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, Rednroll. Amp is a D class. I needed a 5-channel amp. small enough to fit in the area and Alpine PDX-5 was the most compact 5-channel I could find. As you may remember, I was orig. wanting to add OEM Infinity but install wasn't going to be plug n play. SOOOO, after VERY painful process to get everything to fit, it turned out nice other than this issue.

I will unplug power supply to amp and I am sure problem will go away. What you are suggesting makes perfect sense. Problem is I REALLY don't want to move the amp. I'm not opposed to fabricating some type of steel box to ground, in an attempt to shield. If, you think it may help.

Thanks again, for the help. I will disconnect amp. soon and let you know what I find.

BTW, my buddy has mygig and factory infinity system. So, him.
just kiddin, oh course.

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post #16 of 25 Old 11-25-2009, 08:54 PM
 
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Hello guys I have a side question about the WCM and my factory installed remote start system. Marshalllane and Rednroll responses got my attention. My jeeps remote start system works and then doesnt work. The dealer told me that their first step would be is to replace the remote start antenna. They mentioned the WCM but the dealer believes the WCM is not recieving the remote start signal. I believe it also is the antenna. I would prefer to replace it myself. Can anybody tell me were the remote start antenna is located. Also were is the WCM located? Thanks much, sorry I cant help on the TPMS topic.

Last edited by Bags; 11-25-2009 at 09:08 PM.
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post #17 of 25 Old 11-26-2009, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
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Rednroll,

thanks for your time and please let me know what you find out from guys at work. Meanwhile, I will check out the links you attached. I have a 3-week old daughter at home, so I am up alot at odd hours of the night.

I would disconnect TPMS in a minute. Only way I have read to disable is to use aftermarket programmer.

GREAT, info. Thanks again !

I'll post my findings later this weekend, after the feasts !
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post #18 of 25 Old 11-26-2009, 10:45 AM
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He has more watts than I do but my JK is one inch higher! Happy Thanksgiving!
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post #19 of 25 Old 11-28-2009, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post
Yep, Class-D amps are nice. They're small in size and you get a lot of output watts without drawing a lot of power and creating all the heat you see from normal amps. Unfortunately, the part they don't tell you in the marketing information is the high amount of EMF they generate.

If you really want to try the tin foil method I mentioned there might be some better solutions other than tin foil. They make copper sheets which are more durable and also different metal mesh screens made of different materials where certain materials shield better than others and a wire mesh screen would also allow air flow for cooling of the amp.

Let me do this for you, since I'm really not an EMF/EMC specialist. Where I work we have a certified automotive EMC testing facility and they have to hire engineers that specialize in EMC. I will talk to one of the EMC engineers that work in that facility and see if they have some economical and effective EMF shielding suggestions. I would hate to suggest something and it's not effective enough where you waste a lot of time and effort. The good news is that your TPMS light is not constantly staying on, which means we just need to knock down the level of the EMF that is coming from the amp. It's virtually impossible to totally contain the EMF but it is possible to knock down the radiated strength of that EMF.

It's currently Thanksgiving holiday, so I probably won't have any recommendations for you until next week.

If you're bored in the mean time and want to do some reading on the subject then check out this website:
http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html
http://www.lessemf.com/faq-shie.html

It's probably guaranteed to make your head spin and put you to sleep on those sleepless nights.

Additionally, after you unplug the amp and verify that the amp is the source of the problem. At that point you would have a verification that the TPMS is not the problem and have no real worries about your tire pressure. So another solution might be just to disable the TPMS, so the light doesn't keep turning on and off. I'm not sure how to do that, but I have read some posts from others on this forum who have disabled the TPMS.
Disconnected power to amp. and TPMS worked correctly. Therefore, as suspected, new amp and wiring is certainly the cause of the problem. Do you think the interference is coming from the amp. itself, or could the power lead from the battery to the amp. be the cause ? I had to run a 4 ga. wire from battery along firewall to power the amplifier. Didn't know if the current traveling thru this HUGE wire could be the possible cause.
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post #20 of 25 Old 12-01-2009, 02:38 PM
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Wow! Great ideas. Looks like someone finally did his homework.
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post #21 of 25 Old 12-01-2009, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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Incredible information !

I did try tin foil around amp. with ground and couldn't tell that it helped. I called Alpine tech. support today, and of course they said to relocate the amp. away from the dash area.

I considered buying $300 + Superchips programmer to disable stupid TPMS. So, I called Superchips tech. support to confirm system could be disabled but they said system could not be toggled off, only pressure threshold could be adjusted. Even though there are some posts here on JKO indicating that TPMS can be turned off with this programmer. Strange, maybe a safety issue with allowing the system to be disabled now. I don't know.

Anyway, I am thinking to just move the freaking amp. under driver seat.

However, will still have approx. 10' of 4ga. power wire routed to this location too. I should mention that I did also use 4ga. to ground amp. but didn't ground to battery, went to chassis within 1' of amplifier mounting location (which is securely mounted to the chassis too). If I move this amp. under seat and still have problem, I think I will FREAK OUT and gut the entire system (although it sounds great) !

Rednroll, do you still have the opinion that relocating the amp. will eliminate the problem ? Even with the power wire acting as an antenna. I suppose I could better insulate power lead if problem persists. Easier than other options (I think).

Would be allot easier is manufacturers would provide mech. tire pressure gauge in glove box as opposed to this electronic monitoring bull$h!% !!!!!
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post #22 of 25 Old 12-01-2009, 08:40 PM
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Well put Buckwheat.
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post #23 of 25 Old 12-02-2009, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
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FYI, I found out that the wireless control module (WCM) is located at the ign. key cylinder. My amp. is mounted approx. 10" below this.

Hmmm, could be reason for problem.

First, I am going to trace or braid power lead with a ground and if problem still persists, I will move amp. under drivers seat.
Will keep you posted.
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post #24 of 25 Old 12-11-2009, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
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Finally some closure !

Moved amp under seat and no more problems !

Cheers !
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post #25 of 25 Old 12-13-2009, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the help rednroll !

Underwear LOL !
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